Best Of
Re: Trailmarkers - warning received
I can say that basketball courts are not interesting for me because I don't enjoy that sport. That does not forgo that it is a great place to exercise. A wayspot is a point of interest where Wayfarer's interest is their mission, the eligibility criteria reflects this mission. Interest in that case is not strictly only by visual aesthetic.
It may require finesse to detail and distinguish each trailmarker, lots currently do not have that skill yet but I do not think it should cause a sweeping generalization like Aaron's comment. Would be nice to hear and see more examples of well done trailmarker waypots from veteran trailspotters.
I can share the frustration of visually unappealing stuff blocking the more aesthetic ones but that there is a limit chosen by each app. We can only hope for a way to prioritize wayspots in our chosen apps not just by FIFO.
Re: Trailmarkers - warning received
@NianticAaron @NianticTintino-ING
well thats basicly the box of pandora that has been opened now.
The community is alienating itself from your ideas for the database.
Re: State Survey Marks - Railway marks -Boundary Marks - Utility Marks - The nightmare grows
For myself (Perth, Western Australia) there is only one true geodetic mark that is an obvious POI and obvious for approval. It's this one:
That bronze plaque is Western Australia's Point Zero. It is on the very South East corner of the building known as the State Building, once home to the Department of Lands Administration (DOLA). And is located on the corner of St Georges Terrace and Cathedral Avenue. It is the mark from which all other marks are measured.
Until not that long ago, it was also the point from which all roads/streets were numbered, with the closest end to that point being the start of numbering (unless it was a cul-de-sac or ran perpendicular). Mile markers were also measured from this point (Perth 33kms, for example).
https://www.cathedralsquare.com.au/businesses/point-zero/ has a better history on it.
When I saw those geodetic marks, especially in a couple of specific suburbs in New South Wales, I use to 'skip' them as I was not sure how to treat them (not sure of how rare they were and not willing to just 'guess' as WA uses a simple galvanized nail banged into curbing with a white pain circle around it as such local markers.). However, I came across one such nomination where all the other existing and_accepted nominations for that local area where nothing but such marks... and was appalled. Now I mark them ineligible for not meeting the exercise/explore/meet basic requirement.
Other reviews may disagree with me... and that is their right... but I see the wayfarer community are somewhat divided on the subject. Until Niantic issue a hard and fast rule about them, I'm going to continue to mark them ineligible.
Anyways... that's my view and thank you to those who read through it all to this point.
Re: State Survey Marks - Railway marks -Boundary Marks - Utility Marks - The nightmare grows
Thanks @WoodWose-PGO ... Well I get it. It needs the right description for the right type of criteria (historically/significance/importance). I think we all agree on that.
I think we can all agree that is not happening. The title, description and supporting information of these discs are as generic and mass produced as the marks themselves. That alone should disbar them.
And the Tweet is awful. It is also not really true. In fact it is highly inaccurate. It is only recently that Australia has tried to position itself at the fore of this science. Historically it goes back 3000 years to the Egyptions. The Romans loved it. The bible talks of it. And Europe was all over it from the 16th century onwards. So nothing historically significant about Australias role in that. In fact it took until the 1960s to really get a unified national approach/solution/coverage to surveying (yes they tried in 1907, 1930's and 40s etc).
Australia was a leader in the use of the Tellurometer (a South African tool) at scale. But it was a tool well used by other countries.
Recently with the advent of GPS australia sits under 4 Global GPS systems and 2 regional. So has invested heavily over the last few years in meshing these togther to get consistent right data and other associated work. Nothing to do what a little flat disk looks like.
Lets be clear. Any advances in geodetic science needs recognition. And Australia contributes to the Global Geodetic Science.
But having over a million flat discs that are not historically significant objects as POIS defeats the purpose
Again. I am not sure on the dollar benefit of POIs to Niantic. So putting that to one side I believe that Niantic had and has no idea of the scale of the issue and once the door was opened they HAVE NO idea how to close it.
Thanks for the input and research!!!!
Re: State Survey Marks - Railway marks -Boundary Marks - Utility Marks - The nightmare grows
So far as I'm aware, Niantic representatives have made about three statements/comments on these kinds of survey marks.
First was former Ingress Community Manager, Andrew Krug:
"So NIA OPS says, "As long as it's on a public pathway and not on a sidewalk next to a private residence (or any other location mentioned in our Do not submit list), the 4* guideline still applies.""
This means that we had "survey marks on public paths that aren't next to private homes or other ineligible locations are acceptable." Note that the above statement was made around November 2019, before the criteria refresh.
If this is the case, it would make many of the NSW State Survey Markers that have been nominated and accepted invalid as there is a vast majority of these kinds of markers which are not associated with public pathways, and which are directly in front of private single-family homes.
Then in November 2020, NianticCasey's AMA states:
Q: The new criteria lists hiking trails and biking trails as eligible examples under a great place for exercise. Are there any additional requirements for these locations to be eligible (e.g. survey markers, trail signs or other man-made objects)? Do they need to be named trails or paths?
A: While this criteria is much more inclusive than before, there would still need to be some sort of visual indicator of the Wayspot. This is because you're dropping a pin on the map and since trails are long and linear, you'd want to direct players to a safe location somewhere along that trail that's easy to find and safe to access. This would apply to trail markers, survey markers, trail signs, etc.
My interpretation of this is that the entire comment pertains to trails and features representing trails making it irrelevant to the kinds of survey markers commonly being nominated in NSW, Australia which were referenced in the original post in this thread (such as those mounted to curbs, the roadside, in front of houses, or on railway platforms.) The AMA answer could be interpreted as "survey markers on hiking and biking trails are acceptable" but the whole question and answer combo doesn't offer any clarity at all when it comes to the hundreds of thousands of survey markers in suburbia or urban locations.
Maybe I'm just daft, but this is the AMA answer quoted by @NianticGiffard earlier in this thread, and I'd still really appreciate more clarification from Niantic on how it should be interpreted in line with the original post here as well as its subsequent replies because it has left me more confused that I was before.
Finally, we have Niantic's refusal to remove accepted survey markers (https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/20636/mass-abuse-of-wayfarer) but we also know that Wayfarer's acceptance and removal criteria are two different things, both having their own distinct requirements. Also, yes, some survey markers are getting through on appeal, but it's my understanding that others aren't... so this also isn't really a useful way to understand what it acceptable.
Re: Trailmarkers - warning received
I have seen a HUGE uptik in usage of the trails both urban and rural. My house is along a trail and I have used a section of it to make routes and the amount of people using the trails and the routes created along them have really exploded. I have also got myself a yearly PWN subscription to use the dunes and all the various trails there as well. I have had so much fun nominating trail markers out in the dunes and nature signs. I have seen the traffic in these areas and a lot of younger people as well on the trails because the trail markers and nature signs have become stops and gyms and made the routes far more interesting for children to tag along with their parents on walks. I really attribute a lot of this to Pogo. I see a lot of younger kids with grandparents and parents playing along the trails and I had not seen that some years ago as much because there were very few POIs in the forests along the trails.
Re: Trailmarkers - warning received
All Wayspots will be seen while reviewing. Any Wayspot can be reported by any reviewer. Being a Portal does not mean it was an attack by an Ingress player. I won't reply any more on this issue, but it saddens me to see so much hate for players of one game or the other. I thought we were all trying to do the best we can as Wayfarers. I play both Ingress and Pogo, fwiw.
I care deeply about the issue at hand: clarification of whether we are supposed to reject trail markers now, how we are supposed to reject them, and what happens to previously submitted trail markers that don't meet current eligibility criteria. Not meeting eligibility criteria is not a removal criteria on the in game report.
Re: Trailmarkers - warning received
despite the poor timing, the ban this person received had nothing to do with this comment.
Re: Trailmarkers - warning received
I understand why you're looking down on "stickers", but you clearly don't know what you're dealing with here.
I've worked at the local "Landschapsbeheer" for a summer job back when I was 17. The stickers we used often outlast the objects we attached them to.
These specific venyl stickers are the successor to the traditional painted GR(P) and PR long-distance hiking trails, as they last much longer than paint with less upkeep required (while equally cheap), and are more eco friendly.
Nowadays, these signs are slowly phased out in favor of the square aluminum signs with arrows, even though they are more expensive to place, more expensive in upkeep, and are anything but eco friendly to produce.
Re: Trailmarkers - warning received
Until the official Wayspot Criteria is updated to reflect whatever the guidelines are supposed to be, I shall continue following the officially published guidelines and using my own judgement as the community was told during the June 2023 AMA.
