Voting takes too long to earn an upgrade
Rodensteiner-PGO
Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭✭✭
Sorry @NianticCasey-ING
again, again and again:
I am 98% since 3 Days, and i just again did 10 reviews. That makes it about 30-40 reviews i made in those 3 days.
It just moved to 99% ! Hooray - anways - you cannot really tell us that we should earn our upgrades when things are not moving.
i am still having the best possible Rating (****) in my Profile, and i surely do vote good,
-> What happens here?
Things do not get finished, i do not get a result = i do not get an upgrade, because the system is just scraping and collecting, scraping and collecting, scraping and collecting, it is a grind.
I just cannot believe that my reviews are not good, and i dont get points for them. it is the basic fact that we have to to waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more reviews to earn that upgrade.
This isnt a rant, i want to help you !
You are loosing dozens of reviewers every day because you set the system like Shiny Hunting - grind grind grind, just all day! To get that shiny hundo -
please stop this - Wayfarer is not some Video Game!
Comments
I also made like 250 reviews and warnend like 30% (and thats not because I dont vote correct). Feels like the time before the 3.1 Update.
@NianticCasey-ING also, please change it that submissions (that are accepted) in adjacent S2Lvl17 Cells wont move, they keep blocking out each other! if you have 4 things in adjacent S2Lvl17 Cells you can wait until a Meteor wipes out the Dinosaurs!
This is not fair! People are using Upgrades to have those Submissions go thru
Thanks for the feedback @rodensteiner-ING, as I mentioned in the AMA, we are working on revising the reviewer experience and hope to roll out this updated experience in the first half of next year.
This feedback is helpful in understanding some of the frustrations around rewards and motivations behind reviewers to make sure that's considered as we consider the future.
The key thing for reviewers is the lack of feedback about where we "went wrong" - without seeing any of the submissions where we disagreed with the majority of the community voting, it is very hard to get better.
At the vey minimum, how about letting us see a small number of subs where they were deemed incorrect with just a comment "Your votes on this did not agree with the overall community - have a think" or something similar.
Is it just that though? We know from the complaints here that not upgraded submissions can take ages depending on location and you do not get the agreement until the decision is made.
I had that same problem with my last upgrade in that that I was in the 90s and did about 40 before I got my upgrade. Now I seem to be getting loads of agreements come in despite the fact that I haven’t reviewed much in the past few days (which will be past reviews just decided upon)
thank you @NianticCasey-ING
Surely, after writing this (up) i got the upgrade fulfilled the following day (0 %).
As i am writing this, i have not done much reviewing in the last 2 days, but alas the system now is at 27% again.
Reviewers are extremely unhappy to be given the reward after a few days. In this case, it almost took me a week to earn the upgrade. This is not about making incorrect reviews, there is nothing that "went wrong" - i am a good reviewer, and i know the rules. also i know the more relaxed rule changes that you made recently.
If you keep telling your reviewers "Trainer! Plz use an upgrade!" then this upgrade should be given to the wayfarers in good time, and not a week later.
When i go to the butcher or bakery, i am getting my bread now, and not a week later.
@rodensteiner-ING If I understand correctly, your fundamental complaint is that it takes too long for a thing you reviewed to reach consensus, yes? You vote on something, and then you may not get an agreement for it (or disagreement, but those are invisible) for several days?
My experience based on data collection that I did earlier this year is that it can take anywhere from 0-40 days for something I voted on to reach agreement. I figured this out by reviewing a ton over several days then quitting. I recorded my stats at (roughly) the same time every day and watched to see how they changed. There's a graph of it here, and the raw data are in another tab if you're interested. The curve is pretty steep, and doesn't really start leveling off until the 30-day point. There were also a few outliers, with the last agreement coming in after nearly three months.
So... how do we get submissions to come to consensus more quickly? Either we will need to have fewer things in voting at once so that reviewers concentrate on them more, or we'll need more people to be reviewing.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XdQRiFqJ0oDIQLlVBFb6J6hGOPTLZ4DoA8bbxY39kME/edit?usp=sharing
@Hosette-ING first of all, things have to go thru voting and have to be completed.
My and my Sons submission are all going into voting, and stay there. then even more things go into voting, and nothing completes.
First in, First out. It cannot be that Niantic allows new things going into Voting, when 1 year old submissions arent finished yet.
Easy as ABC.
Niantic doesnt need more people that review, they have to change the system that fewer things are beign voted on.
If you submit 100 things, and every single on of them goes into voting, the pool of reviewers will have to chew to all of them. why not take the first 10 submissions, have them all reviewed AND completed, until the system moves to the next 10 submissions, i do not know.
The main problem of the system is that it doesnt fulfill, it only collects more and more votes on more and more submissions.
The system usually only allows 2 nominations per lvl 14 s2 cell currently i have found in my own experience.
well, the system allows that you make hundrets of nominations in a s2-lvl14 cell.
the problem will be that most things get stuck if they are in neighbouring 17 cells. and with stuck i mean like forever. only chance is to apply an upgrade to get one of those things out of voting.
the secret sauce recipe doesnt want you to know what is inside, so i guess we wont know what happens, unless maybe someone from Tech reads this post.
Oh i know. I had a huge park that was filled with baseball fields and soccer fields and i started submitting around june for them and they only just all made it through by october. And thats using upgrades as well. If theres 2 in voting the rest are in the queue. The way i managed to power through was i let the ones that were in voting stay in voting and use upgrades on ones in the queue.
you know, this just can´t be. it is only made so that there arent things going in voting that people have submitted 100 Times.
Like a new statue. everyone who walks by thinks "OH! that isnt a pokestop". Snap, submit.
Niantic just doesnt want those 100 submissions to go into voting.
BUT - on the other side, our submissions elsewhere in those areas just go "ZZZzzZzzzzZZz".
I think there is a variable that people are overlooking-- the velocity of reviewers in an area. An area that has a moderate number of reviewers who only review 10-20 submissions each per week is going to be much slower than one that has hundreds of reviewers at that pace, or has a moderate number of reviewers at 50-100 reviewers per week.
The extreme example of low velocity is places where there are no active reviewers and things sit in the queue for years. The Wayfarer group on Facebook has done some really good work on that by coordinating people to shift their bonus location to extremely low-velocity areas. The first success was the Solomon Islands, where there was only one portal and thus only one PokeStop. Now there are 30 portals in Honiara, which is enough to bootstrap local players so that they can level up and review in their area.
Niantic: This effort would be easier if people could change bonus locations more frequently if moving to underserved areas. The players are eager to help you with this-- perhaps you can help them help you?
It's not that simple. Say the cut-off for finishing review is to be reviewed by 40 people. Now imagine if there are only 30 active reviewers in the area. What does first in, first out solve then? What does having fewer things being voted on solve? If anything, getting as much stuff as possible reviewed by the available reviewers and ready to be seen when some less active reviewer decides to log on for a change is a much better solution.
So it's not easy as ABC and Niantic DOES need more people who review because the same reviewer can't review a nomination multiple times. Having less nominations in voting solves exactly nothing if the issue is a lack of local reviewers (and I know Niantic has a pretty loose definition of "local" already).
the definition of local isnt really known, all i know is that as my sons and I are in the middle of germany, there is no specific need to set a extra location here.
we wont get any of the submissions anyway.
my son has set his extra location after 12 month on some Island, i think it was Haiti. He now really gets submissions from his extra location.
setting your extra location anywhere near your radius is pointless.
@52cucumbers-ING There's a workaround for not having enough reviewers in the area, and for all I know they might be using it. If a submission is in voting for X days and has not yet reached consensus expand the review area for it. After another X days expand it further. Keep going until it reaches consensus.
Niantic considers the bonus location do be "a location that you are familiar with".
As such that sort of behavior (changing your bonus location to somewhere you've never been/don't know) doesn't seem like the kind of thing they should support.
I think they do. I have received a couple of reviews from Jan Mayen before, while both my home and bonus location is in eastern Norway. That's roughly 1400 kms (870 miles) away. It's the equivalent distance of me seeing nominations from southern Germany while the furthest south I've ever been shown anything is northern Denmark.
Either way, I don't think the solution is to reduce the number of nominations in voting. That'll just leave reviewers with nothing to review after they get through all the nominations Niantic is currently considering to be in their range.
the main thing here is still that those old submissions clog up the system, and prevent new submissions of the same things to be fulfilled/rejected. everything there continues to linger in the system. and that isnt something i make up, it is reality.
Yeah, the backlog is a problem. I don't think anyone disagree about that.