"Military Base" clarification

24

Comments

  • Jtronmoore-PGOJtronmoore-PGO Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m going to assume you’ve never lived or worked on a military base with those words lol. They are completely safe. And if you feel they are unsafe its probably because you are doing things that are unsafe to begin with 🤦🏻

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, they are probably the safest places in the US... Last place you can still say, "okay little 6yr old Timmy, sure you can play with your friend Johnny across the street, I'll leave the door unlocked just come home before sunset." Just let your kids free roam the neighborhood basically.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2021

    I keep brining it up because people keep saying they are unsafe (which they aren't) and then that they want all existing wayspots removed which is unacceptable (there isn't a problem and they aren't the base commander).

    And no, "operational areas" are not off limits to "location based services". You can look up ANY POI on a base in google/apple/bing maps and find anything. GPS directions to anywhere on any base. Go on Snapchat you'll see stories on the map. Instagram tagged photos. They aren't top secret mysterious government installations...

    Places like Cheyenne Mountain Complex or Site C-6 or IDK... Area 51? Sure! And guess what 0 people live there, those aren't "bases" they are "installations". And it's pretty obvious the difference.

    Post edited by TrevorAlan-PGO on
  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you think that a children's playground on a base showing up on Pokémon Go/Ingress game map is unsafe/breach of national security/a threat IDK what planet you are from...

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 2,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TrevorAlan-PGO

    and then that they want all existing wayspots removed which is unacceptable (there isn't a problem and they aren't the base commander).

    People are advocating for change, yes having someone with proper rank is currently required. But that's not fair for the people getting disagreements for voting according to criteria. Invalid POI should be removed from the game and that's my opinion. We're allowed to advocate for it, just like you advocated that they should be eligible.

  • auntergoaf-PGOauntergoaf-PGO Posts: 159 ✭✭✭✭

    As Themanis has already pointed out, consistency between the guidelines and clarification is the best way to solve this problem.

    @NianticGiffard If you could just tell me if you plan to modify the guidelines, that would be fine.

  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 960 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At the root of all these problems, not just this one, is the discrepancy between the rejection criteria and the removal criteria, and the failure to remove unacceptable Wayspots that have been approved in the past.

    Unless this point is improved and clearly notified, this debate will be repeated forever.

    Worryingly, a certain number of players are already acting as if an unapproved Wayspot is the same as an approved Wayspot if it is not removed.

  • Sunlitgarden-INGSunlitgarden-ING Posts: 143 ✭✭✭

    I get lots of disagreements for following Niantic guidance on these. Here is just one example from yesterday "Holloman Dog Park Tire Sculpture" 32.834392,-106.086936

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NianticGiffard before you decide to close this thread, please tell Niantic's official stance about this.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 2,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Jtronmoore-PGOJtronmoore-PGO Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2021

    Well if someone is stupid enough to try to trespass onto an operational zone of a military base I believe they win a darwin award. I live in the residential side of a base in Canada and they are like every other subdivision in Canada.

    I’m not arguing for or against the ruling of niantic or the military commanders who have made there rule. But there is a vast difference between going into the residential side of base to play on a playground or any type of sporting equipment. Vs trying to get into operation area’s of base.

    Literally anyone can be on the residential side of base regardless of occupation. Its living quarters and has amenities such as a grocery store, gym, playgrounds, sport fields, different churchs, elementary/highschools and even statue displays of different military items wether it ranges from tanks to planes or anything else historical as they are meant as a tourist attraction.

    operational side is where the work is literally done and is not for people to wander or for living quarters.

    with that being said. @TrevorAlan-PGO I get you want something from niantic to change this. The problem is your talking to the wrong people. If you really want change for this you would have to contact your bases’s commanders to get them to change the military’s ruling on AR games on base property. That and that alone is the single reason why Niantic will never change there stance on this subject no matter how many times its brought up. The answer is no and its the final answer you will ever get

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My father was the commander, of 22 different locations across the globe, there's no rule against AR on (US) bases. there's no problem with it.

    A children's playground, a church, a basketball court, are all common sense things that are acceptable and should remain so, and those wanting ALL existing waypoints to be removed is completely annoying and wrong. Spawns were blocked on bases after initial trespassing issues, but now folks on here want everything removed because it hurts their feelings when the don't get an "agreement" if something gets approved on a base?

    The problem on here is the apparent lack of knowledge of what a base is. And yes, I'm advocating for change to make (residential) areas of bases eligible again. But if we just wanna keep with the ignorance of what a base in the US is fine, but as threads pop up about people complaining and wanting existing waypoints removed from bases because they don't like it I'm going to continue to argue against them.

    It follows the same logic as those people who try to get wayspots removed because they can't reach it, or take over the gym, or connect the portal. And it annoys and bothers them so they try to report them for removal. If you can't access the Wayspot on base then just ignore it, because it has nothing to do with you.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So my main issue is that I'd like to know WHY military bases (US) are "banned". And the only concrete suggestion I have gleaned is because of the original trespassing issues/news headlines when PoGo launched.

    Everyone on here just keeps regurgitating the same misinformation that military bases are "sensitive", AR & GPS are not allowed, or are "unsafe". All those statements are completely untrue. (And please tell me I'm wrong, that's why I bring up I'm a military brat, and lived on bases, because I don't understand at all what you all are talking about when you keep saying these, and IDK how people who have 0 military life experience could know more than someone with 20+ years of experience in it?)

    And then the more common things I see are folks trying to get existing wayspots removed... which has 0% to do with you so just ignore that they are there. Existing wayspots aren't your concern and don't affect you so leave them be and yes, if a COMMANDER has a problem with them, let them handle it.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 2,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TrevorAlan-PGO

    It follows the same logic as those people who try to get wayspots removed because they can't reach it, or take over the gym, or connect the portal. And it annoys and bothers them so they try to report them for removal. If you can't access the Wayspot on base then just ignore it, because it has nothing to do with you.

    Im sorry but this is utter BS. In no way is this the same thing, it has nothing to do with me or anyone not reaching quite frankly I'm not near a base so frankly doesn't affect me much. Limited access waypoints are completely valid I will never complain about them. Waypoints within a base are NOT valid and should be removed. And yes when I spent countless hours and rightfully reject on base portals and then see them accepted i do get upset at a lost agreement, they add up, they affect more than my upgrades, they affect my percentages, they can affect your rating too. So no it's nothing to let slide.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So we should also remove all housing complex name signs, and all pond fountains, and all pools that aren't public, also ALL cemetery wayspots of any kind. What else? Because theres TONS and TONS of waypoints in the database that are "no longer eligible". They also show up in our nomination reviews because people keep submitting them. Except you and others advocating for removal of perfectly acceptable waypoints to be removed from bases makes it so nobody who lives on base (kids family etc) can play at all. Unless you're a base commander and it's causing a problem with your base you have no right to insist they be removed.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 2,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TrevorAlan-PGO

    And then the more common things I see are folks trying to get existing wayspots removed... which has 0% to do with you so just ignore that they are there. Existing wayspots aren't your concern and don't affect you so leave them be and yes, if a COMMANDER has a problem with them, let them handle it.

    Youbare mistaken, this has to do with everyone reviewing by the guidelines and earning disagreements. When an uneducated reviewer sees accepted waypoints in the nearby they think they are valid and accept the current review, incorrectly. Same when these are showcased on the wayfarer page.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 2,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, i would say so. Niantic should remove any waypoint that is not truly valid. I do my share of reports of things that fall within removal criteria, and frankly believe Niantic needs to do more. From your list pond fountains or the only thing I can and do successfully report and get removed.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So the solution then is to remove ALL wayspots that are ineligible now. So, ALL cemeteries, ALL pond fountains, ALL pools, ALL housing signs... might as well nuke the whole database and start over, because IDK how anyone (Niantic) would fix the problem and you (and others) singling out the military bases/community is incredibly unfair and uh, uncool.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 2,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TrevorAlan-PGO

    Unless you're a base commander and it's causing a problem with your base you have no right to insist they be removed.

    I have just as much a right as you have right to demand Niantic makes them eligible.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    FYI I'm not saying YOU, specifically, I mean "you" in the more broad term. But sure, thats why I'll continue to advocate for military wayspots. I find the current policy unfair and nonsensical.

  • tehstone-INGtehstone-ING Posts: 904 Ambassador

    honestly yes we should. I'd love to not have to review a bunch of boring neighborhood signs and a lot fewer of them would be submitted if none currently existed.

    I'm currently earning several disagreements a day rejecting things within 2 bases near me that are getting approved. Why has niantic not updated criteria in *2 years* so that other reviewers know better?


    this reminds me of the suburbs/rural complaint "I should have pokestops wherever I live." well no, you aren't entitled that.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "it has nothing to do with me or anyone not reaching quite frankly I'm not near a base so frankly doesn't affect me much"

    I have family, friends, and past coworkers who live on base, and I visit, and it is TERRIBLE for PoGo, nothing spawns whatsoever. And of Course if there isnt any waysposts you cant play ingress, also it makes it so the only way to play pogo would be to pay for incense or lures.

    It's extra crappy because some bases are bigger than entire towns, so you have these completely blacklisted areas. Can't play anything. and then if theres no way posts at all its even worse.


    (I couldn't figure out how to do the inline quote)

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well I find that WAY more fair, we should NOT be singling out military bases only then. And focusing on a reform of the system for old ineligible wayspots. But Niantic's stance on that also is that anything is grandfathered and only owners of the property (and for bases, commanders) are allowed to request removal (unless its something completely egregious)

    Not defending the whole "rural" "want mor poke stop" argument at all, but it seems different (to me?) because bases are dense like a town with playgrounds and churches and recreation... They're essentially gated towns.

    I just get super annoyed and heated with this ONE argument against bases. I'm not trying to be an ****, just drives me nuts with the singling out of military bases for removals, and then I guess the general rejection reason 1* unsafe blocks emergency services makes 0% sense.

    If we wanna have a blanket removal of in-eligble wayspots, sure! Obviously those affect me too I'd love to stop seeing pond aerator fountains and housing development signs in my review queue. (ever since moving to Florida I drown in those)

  • tehstone-INGtehstone-ING Posts: 904 Ambassador

    fwiw it's pretty easy to get aerator fountains removed. I've reported a half dozen in the past year and all were removed. but of course they don't have pedestrian access rather than simply being ineligible.

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Jtronmoore-PGOJtronmoore-PGO Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The answer is extremely clear. The reason why the discussion keeps going is because OP doesn’t like the answer.

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