It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.
Sign In with Ingress Sign In with Pokémon GO
I think this is a good decision. I hope that we reviewers will be as deliberate as we need to be to make sure that restricted areas of bases don't get included. You military folks have any common sense tips on what is "public" on bases?
What do you expect from a community that has been nominating and approving wayspots despite the rules that those were not valid? They will nominate everything under the sun and claim that it's not a restricted area.
Thank you for finally clarifying this. Can this get pinned in someway so people who don't actively check this section see it?
This ought to be good news for reviewers; if it LOOKS like a residential neighbourhood then (parks, playgrounds, storefronts, etc) it's quite likely NOT in any operational areas.
There's still gonna be monuments and such over where the "big boys" play (so to speak), so some of that's gonna keep us on our toes lol
@NianticGiffard why not have us, the reviwers, be able to flag nominations on military bases? Then you, Niantic, can make these decisions.
There is an AFB near where I live I am familiar with the areas that are restricted even as a civilian myself as I had access for my work. I knew where to go and where not to go. I can't expect somone who has never been on that base to know what I do. And I don't know it all either because there were places that were restricted to me. I only know this because of working on the base.
And my knowledge only pertains to base layout of that particular base. I wouldn't be able to make a proper call on other bases.
I understand there are members of the military who want to play Pokémon Go, Ingress and any other current or future games. I don't want to take that away from them, but I think Niantic needs to do some leg work here.
Get Geofencing around these places. I do belive you have done this already since many bases have reported no wild spawns in PoGo.
Either set up a system for submitting within that geofencing that flags the area for us to see and know it's on a base and to be extra cautious when approving. Or have those submissions sent directly to Niantic for review.
Reach out to players who submit within these geofenced areas and get them to understand what the guidelines are and then maybe even deputise some of them to help you out. Make it so they can submit and get approvals fast but have them show some seriously good supporting photos and information on the submissions so everyone knows what areas are safe for play.
You could, and in my option should...
Only allow minimal activities on these bases in all games. Pogo, just gym work like it is now. Ingress, only capture and hacks, no links, no fields (in or out). Pikmin no flower planting, just track steps.
First of all, I would like to thank you for the certain clarification regarding the screening criteria for military base sites.
Now I won't have to argue with the TrevorAlan-PGO on this matter and I won't get any unnecessary disagree.
On the other hand, I do understand some of the concerns expressed by WheelTrekker-ING.
The clarification will take care of the parks, playgrounds, objects, and some public relations facilities that you and the TrevorAlan-PGO are envisioning in the residential areas of the bases.
However, it is also true that there are many wayspots in non-residential areas of military bases.
And some abusive wayfinders will try to exploit this clarification even more.
So, can we please simultaneously remove wayspots in non-residential areas that are not open to the public?
In the future, it would be helpful to build the Lightship database in such a way that what AgentX1976-ING suggested can be achieved, thus reducing the burden on nominators and judges.
That would be the clear message of the criteria that the Wayfarer team has decided upon.
100% disagree on this. The goal is to be inclusive in Niantic games, and continuing the current unneeded and unfair geo-blocked bans is excluding the military community and families from participating. Not a wayfarer discussion but this is the next pain-point for US military bases that needs to be fixed, removing the OSM tag geoblock ban. As in the current state games such as PoGo are basically unplayable since the whole point of the game doesn't work in the "gated city".
Again, not Wayfarer related, but if for some ridiculous reason Niantic does not want to fully remove the geo-block on military land-use OSM tags... Perhaps a good compromise is IF there is an overlaying tag for things like residential area, park, playground, etc. Then those areas supersede the underlying military tag (opposite of how it is now, where military tag blanket bans the whole area)
This way those who know the bases can edit and make the map correct, and that solves both parties issues of being able to play, and keeps the "sensitive" areas (which still aren't a problem IMO) out of spawns, etc.
I would like to see blocking work in the non-public areas of military bases and the removal of Wayspot going forward.
Of course, I would exclude that blocking for the residential areas you mentioned.
I think that would solve the problem for both sides, don't you?
I would not like to see any existing waypoints removed, as all that I have seen with my own eyes at bases i've lived on/visited have been perfectly acceptable.
However yes, as I stated in my previous comment, I'd (and likely the rest of the military community) you be elated if Niantic just flat out removes the OSM tag ban on bases, BUT I could also live with the compromise of overlapped tags for residential, parks, playgrounds, sports areas, etc etc (which are all in OSM) would override the military tag ban only in those areas.
This message should be pinned, it's a clear answer to the military bases problem everywhere, not only for USA bases. Thanks !
Can we then have this clarification flow into the removal criteria as well? And action upon live wayspots that do not match such criteria?
There are tons of newly accepted and legacy wayspots that are live and do not match the eligibility rule and the exception you mentioned. However, whenever one tries to report it you consistently deny such reports even when faced with clear evidence. Such is an example ( https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/129967#Comment_129967 ) but there are several more worldwide.
If we really want them in the Wayfarer/Lightship database, at least ensure they stay out of any game's active playboard as it creates an unbalanced experience, confusing gameplay, and potential security issues which might lead to PR disasters.
How am I as a reviewer supposed to distinguish between "on base restricted" and "on base open to the public"?
Playground, basketball court, tennis court, park, trail marker, gazebo, pavilion, exercise stations, dog parks, statues and monuments, etc etc. Eligible as it would be anywhere else.
Long story short if it can be submitted it's not in a "restricted/sensitive" area. However if you are unsure or uncomfortable because say its something that is inside a building go ahead and reject, i think thats fair enough. But in a restricted area nobody is going to have their phone on their person in the first place.
(note this is US idk about other countries)
You’ll never find a playground in a restricted area of a base. Or basically any kind of sports court. You basically have to think “is this area part of what the military might do for work” and it can answer your question. All things listed by @TrevorAlan-PGO are some good examples how ever with gazebo’s and pavilions you will have to take a closer look because they sometimes have areas like that within working areas as a rest area for workers. But if you see lets say a kids playground right next to a gazebo/pavilion you can safely assume it is not part of the working defence establishment. Hopefully that helps clarify it :)
No, but you will find plaques and monuments in “operational” areas, sometimes. Be careful and mindful.
Yeah, this is true. So the things to look out for is "pavilions" location, and as far as indoor nominations like plaques, if it is stated its in the theater or museum etc on base and has the Google Maps location marked, its safe. But I know many display cases and plaques etc that are inside of a Wing Headquarters/office building or otherwise "operational area".
So I'm totally cool with a rejection on an indoor nomination like that if it doesn't explicitly say its in a public area like a museum or the Commissary/BX etc.
I can't think of any other grey-area questionable scenarios, but anyone can just ping me I guess if theres more questions.
I would agree. At work theres always plaques in basically every hangar you have dedicated to someone or something. Just something to keep an eye on as well.