You want increased density? Then you gotta compromise.

HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 227 ✭✭✭

The majority of people only want more Pokestops. That is almost going to be the same want for everyone. Pokemon Go players are often fed up with how Ingress players can get away with having every single POI appear in the game, and so bad actors (like the one mentioned from Albion Park) would do everything they can to try and make every single thing a Pokestop (well... not that it actually works anymore, unless you're moving it to a vacant cell).

You think it would be more fun to have more things available to hack in Ingress. But that's pretty much all they are, more targets to link and field from. In Ingress you have to be at a portal in order to play the core mechanics of the game., to deploy resonators, to link, to field, all that jazz. In Pokemon Go, they just pop out of nowhere like mushrooms, or use an incense to have them pop right underneath your feet, and Pokestops are just a supplementary place to spin for items to keep on playing. But no, you also have gifts, buddy Pokemon finding you items, research tasks and other things. So consider yourselves lucky there's been a lot of adjustments to gameplay.

But the key mechanic in Ingress that is not present in Pokemon Go is the burning out of portals. That is, a portal can only be hacked (spun) four times every four hours. What, then if a critical change in the mechanic of Pokemon Go also did this? So that you couldn't just camp at a location for hours on end endlessly spinning a Pokestop for items? Plus some other additions? For example:

========================================================================

Trainers,

Due to the takeover of Congress by Team GO Rocket, supply chains all around the world have been disrupted. Starting on app version 0.200.1, we have made the following core changes to gameplay:

  • Ta-da! There are no more limits regarding the density of Pokestops. Now you can see all existing wayspots in-game, so you don't keep on submitting duplicates and within 20m.
  • We have increased the gym limits in S2 Level 14 cells from 2, 6, 20 to 2, 6, 20, 48 wayspots in a cell. However, there can only be a maximum of 2 gyms in an S2 Level 15 cell to space out gym ownership. Keep aiming for the top, trainers!
  • Employees from Silph Co. worked their magic endlessly to keep Pokestops infinitely flowing with items. However, due to the global shortage, Pokestops now contain limited spins.
    • A Pokestop can be spun once every 4 minutes (previously 5). However, it may only be spun six times for each trainer before Silph need to restock. The restocking process will take 6 hours before providing more items.
    • A Pokestop will go into inactive mode (i.e. just a dot on the in-game map) and cannot be interacted with until inventory has been replenished! That way, you will be able to only select Pokestops to spin that still have items for you (this is to avoid the portal disambiguation selection windows in Ingress).
    • To install and enjoy the benefits of a module, it is recommended to do so before the Pokestop goes into inactive mode. Each stop will show how many spins remaining before going inactive.
    • While the Pokestop is inactive for one player, it may not be for another! Ask your friends to lure one up to enjoy the benefits together.
  • We have rescaled the amount of items you receive from spinning stops depending on the density of your area:
    • If your area is full of Pokestops, you may receive far less items than an area with sparse Pokestops. You may only receive about 0.2 items per spin on average in a crowded city , whereas you may receive four times the amount of items in a secluded area at a Pokestop full to the brim with items!
  • In addition to the most asked for feature, we are introducing a brand new Personal Pokestop! (yeah yeah this is a rip-off from Catan, also one thing to curb people submitting their face or live animals)
    • Personal Pokestops allow you to spin for items once every 6 hours. You may upgrade your Personal Pokestop to Silver (1,000 coins) to spin once every 3 hours, and to Gold (5,000 coins) to spin once every hour.
    • No one else can see or spin your Personal Pokestop except you. To move your Personal Pokestop back to your inventory costs 500 coins, but you will lose all upgrade status. (y'know what it's like in Catan, World Explorers right?)
    • The Personal Pokestop does not count for your Pokestop spin streak.

This major update will roll out to players beginning February 29, 2021. Keep your eyes peeled trainer for these changes, and let's GO!

[Insert blurb about Health Guidelines, Changes, etc etc here]

========================================================================

In my opinion, I don't see Niantic ever making these changes at all, but this would be one way to kind of even out the economy of wayspots and function between both the games. Why is there portal burnout in one and not the other? Why does Catan allow for a Personal Settlement but not the others?

This is essentially just a hypothetical post, but considering that the reason why people abuse location edits is simply because Ingress has more POIs and it isn't fair Pokemon Go gets approximately half of the wayspots present in-game.

While I myself wouldn't be so much a fan of this change (see, I like sitting in a corner on a rainy day endlessly spinning stops with 3-hour incense with some close friends), this would mean that Pokemon Go would possibly better achieve their philosophy of money exploration and helping trainers be more active, walking to the next cluster of Pokestops when their current area burns out. This is more of trying to explore different avenues and possibilities to find ways to stop the rife quantities of immense crapola of Pokestop submissions at houses, blatant location edit abuse, countless duplicates, and people who submit trees or grass.

Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Comments

  • Brasardant-PGOBrasardant-PGO Posts: 8 ✭✭

    "This major update will roll out to players beginning February 29, 2021. Keep your eyes peeled trainer for these changes, and let's GO!"


    The 29 February 2021 ? I was convinced that it would be January 32.

  • Kellerrys-INGKellerrys-ING Posts: 291 ✭✭✭✭

    @oscarc1-ING "Why does Ingress and Pokemon Go need to be compared like that?"

    Because it (plus cherry picking and exaggerating restrictions) fits the OP's desired "removing cell districtions in Pogo wouldn't help the players's situation" narrative.

    --

    But yes, if the cells restrictions were modified/removed there would also need to be UI (smaller gyms and discs etc) and item distribution (less items per spin in high density arras etc) changes. In that case closer comparison would be HPWU, not Ingress.

    For the record, I have a couch portal/stop and I wouldn't mind stop burnout in exchange for cell distriction removal. :)

  • Jtronmoore-PGOJtronmoore-PGO Posts: 458 ✭✭✭

    This is honesty the worst suggestion I think I have ever heard of for the game of pokemon go. By your logic we make lures essentially useless. Because then we would have to change locations for no reason.

    There really is no need for a personal pokestop for anyone. If you happen to live by a park well lucky you! If not get friends on the game and open gifts! You will get far more items from that. I can’t see anyone having to pay for a home stop either. That and niantic already gives a very easy task a day for people not going out to actively play.

    I understand you’re an ingress player and maybe don’t play pokemon go. So I would stop suggesting changes in other games that you don’t play often enough to see how harmful these changes could be.

    I’m not familiar with lvl 15 cells for s2 cells but in all honesty they are not needed. It would just further complicate getting gyms in the game when there really isnt a problem now. If there are 3 gyms all close to each other? Perfect! I can easily manage to do 3 raids in a raid hour effortlessly without moving locations.

    Overall these “problems” you keep seeing are from people who literally don’t play the game or dont want to play the game the way its intended to play.

  • AScarletSabre-PGOAScarletSabre-PGO Posts: 292 ✭✭✭✭

    For me, Pokéstops and gyms also server to inform the player, in addition to whatever game play functions they have. I have used Pokéstops in the past to in order help me decide on a place to eat when I'm visiting a new area. If there were to be parity with Ingress, it would allow people to discover so much more about the history of where I live and the "local hotspots".


    Plus, Pokéstops are not just there for items. Anybody who plays Pokémon GO would know that. You can obtain tasks, eggs and battle Team GO Rocket grunts and leaders at Pokéstops. As has been mentioned, the way people interact with Wayspots in each of the Niantic games is totally different. I can see somebody who has their Pokémon GO Plus on constantly (a perfectly legitimate way to play the game) running out of Pokéballs quite quickly if an area has an excellent mobile signal strength but a poor distribution of Pokéstops.

    I see a lot of post-hoc rationalizations in regards to cell sizes in Pokésmon GO. That is to say, coming up with a conclusion first and then doing whatever is takes to arrive at the predetermined conclusion. I've played Ingress and I know it has ways of making high Wayspot density areas easy to navigate. Methods can be put into place in Pokémon GO in order to manage more than Wayspot per s17 cell, because s17 cells are huge in my opinion (especially at the high latitude place where I live)

  • gazzas89-PGOgazzas89-PGO Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭

    To add to what wandherring said, ingress really doesn't need that many portals, for one, you get codes, but even ignoring them, ingress players get quantum capsules, they can literally get the gear or keys they need daily if they plan that out properly. I've literally had to start binning stuff as soon as I hack that arent keys as I've got too much, partly because the game turnover just now is quiet, but even then im very rarely lacking for gear, especially ad other agents can drop spare gear. Yet in pogo im constantly in need of pokeballs to catch pokemon, for a start can o ly open 20 or 30 gifts a day, so if you are in a low pokestop area you're screwed for actually playing the main point of the game

  • LukeAllStars-PGOLukeAllStars-PGO Posts: 1,926 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would enjoy a game name "Ingress GO" where you have to catch XMP Bursters and Power Cubes with PokeBalls.

    Just kidding, I believe a change to the system of ING or PGo will cause a chaos. Just keep it like it currently is, maybe upgrade something to prevent unnecesary duplicates and other little aspects but dont change the whole system of the game.

  • oscarc1-INGoscarc1-ING Posts: 165 ✭✭✭✭


    Ingress benefits from more portals, especially for complex fielding or challenges where unique hacks/captures/destroys or necessary. Inventory management is a big part of Ingress and forms part of the strategy on how you play.

    It all depends on how you play, if you play hard there is never enough of anything, but if you're casual, it doesn't matter what the density or output is - the same applies for PoGo and every other Niantic game.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 227 ✭✭✭

    Some sour comments here that stick out like sore thumbs amidst some constructive criticism.

    A lot of the statements assume that I don't play Pokemon Go, which is outright incorrect. I play almost as equally as Ingress and enjoy the gameplay aspects of all. Generally speaking, the majority of people are happy with the way Pokemon Go is now, myself included. So you have no right to say that I should stop suggesting changes (which I didn't, theorising is a whole different thing). It's mainly the Wayfarer part that is driving me up the wall with these pathetic S2 cell location edits and people trying to game the system. Everything I say is a hypothesis or a possible compromise, and in case you didn't realise towards the end, I myself have stated that I wouldn't support these changes either.

    This really is for the bad actors and the people at the back who continuously without relent abuse location edits by moving stops everywhere across S2 cell lines, and I do not exaggerate that. They are the ones who cry foul over Niantic's location edit changes (the hard limit of one POI per cell), constantly demanding for "more Pokestops", and wondering why Ingress has more POIs. If they really want POI parity, its these changes that they could compromise with. Doesn't mean that I agree with them. Just throwing the possibility out there.

    So I agree with @LukeAllStars-PGO and also @oscarc1-ING, the games are great the way they are and are by themselves incomparable great standalone titles that I've sunk hundreds of hours for both (probably years tbh). For the people who like abuse though, keep on doing your own thing. Because Niantic doesn't really seem to see harm in that. Find a way to curb duplicates, stop people submitting things already in Ingress just because they can't see it in Pokemon GO, and people doing the stupid location edits (yeah I know mentioned this in every paragraph of this post anyway).

    Just imagine seeing a ridiculous abusive location edit every 5-10 reviews you do, and then receiving a cool down for it. That is the core reason why I wrote this (quite exaggeratively to say the least), which at first didn't clearly seem out of frustration and disappointment, but now you know. They abuse because of the cell rules and limitations. And if Niantic does not want to act on some recommendations, then maybe they're not good enough.

  • 52cucumbers-ING52cucumbers-ING Posts: 133 ✭✭✭
    edited January 12

    I think you're either over-estimating the output of quantum capsules or you're playing extremely casually. For common items expect on average ~2 a day. And that's assuming the capsule is near full, meaning you have 90+ "wasted" inventory slots. You're just not gonna sustain any kind of gameplay on that, it's purely for supplementing what you get from hacks. You'll find, if you look closer, that gifts yield much larger amounts of items (not that I want them in ING, please don't add them to ING). If you're opening 20+ gifts a day and running out on pokeballs while being able to sustain your Ingress playing with items from quantum cubes then you're really only playing one of the games.


    EDIT: Not that any of that matters, or is relevant. If there's a problem with the game loop in one game then focus on the game loop in that game. It becomes kind of futile to say "we want X because some other people have Y". I am not even sure I should have responded but in this case the argument was just so obviously skewed.

  • gazzas89-PGOgazzas89-PGO Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭

    Well let's see now, I have 10 capsules, 7 filled with l8 xmps, 1 filled with l8 us, 1 with l8 resis and 1 with l8 cubes, with that, ive not needed to hack for l8 gear in months. As for the other 1000, need 6 portals and im.sorted, thats all my reso gear needed and will get mids that I need as well, so thats me sorted constantly with me playing and fielding pretty much ever day. Yet in pogo, those same 6 pokestops wouldnt give me enough to play for even an hour of catching pokemon, battling etc. There's just not enough drops. And again I going up, if I was ever to struggle for gear, I can ask other agents to let me borrow, there is no limit fro that. But thats not an option in pogo, if your out of balls and out of gifts to open, which can happen very quickly, you need pokestops otherwise you can't play the game, thats not an opinion, thats a fact plain and simple

  • 52cucumbers-ING52cucumbers-ING Posts: 133 ✭✭✭
    edited January 12

    EDIT: Ah **** it, I'm not gonna get trolled into another one of these debates.

  • gazzas89-PGOgazzas89-PGO Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭

    Whos trolling? I'm telling you a fact from how I play both games, in fact several people in my area play both and have the same level of too much inventory in ingress but pokeballs running low in pogo, because niantic have lessened the amount of balls you get from pokestops and gifts (this is a fact backed up by silph Road before you try to claim otherwise) whilst upping the amount of pokemon spawn

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 251 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You may well be happy with 6 portals and be able to play fine, but I most certainly wouldn't.

    What works for you in Ingress is totally not sustainable for me, your cubes, xmps etc wouldn't last me more than a week or two max , if I only had 6 portals I'd be out of gear and stuffed.

    On the other hand I have pokeballs that i have to recycle because i don't need them, generally I recycle all red ones because i have more than enough blues and yellows.

    Now I'm not saying that my way of playing either game is better than yours, different play styles, different areas, different opponents etc etc.

    What I am saying is there is not a one size fits all game style or POI distribution

  • oscarc1-INGoscarc1-ING Posts: 165 ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah I agree with @Theisman-ING, that level of gear would probably last me 1 or 2 days at most. Like I said before, it all depends on how you play, if you play hard there is never enough of anything, but if you're casual, it doesn't matter what the density or output is - this applies to Ingress, Pokemon Go, Harry Potter Wizards Unite and Catan World Explorers.

    The density is always going to be an issue if you are focusing on playing any of the games. That's why Niantic want us to get out and explore, so the density issue is balanced by simply going to more Wayspots.

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 452 ✭✭✭✭

    In my opinion, Niantic should pre-review most of location edits. If they find the edits become abusive (influence reviewers, attempt to move a Wayspot to inaccurate loaction, etc.), they should block access to location edit to that submitter.


    In the meantime, I would also complaining this. About 5 days ago I got to review a location edit of a Wayspot located 10km away from my house (and I'm aware of that location). Basically, the submitter just influence reviewers to choose the right point so another Wayspot can be live in Pokemon GO:

    Which its accurate location is the left one, so I just choose the correct one and go on. However, a friend of mine who just recently passed by that location told me just now that the Wayspot has been moved and a new Pokestop appeared, as predicted.

    If a single Wayspot can be successfully moved like that, then I wonder if many of similiar edits were also approved this way!


    You owe me many agreements, Niantic!

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