Upgrades

TheZodiac007-PGOTheZodiac007-PGO Posts: 104 ✭✭
edited January 11 in General Discussion

It could just be me but it seems like when we receive an upgrade & it gets applied to a nomination it seems like that nomination is almost guaranteed to get denied. I’ve noticed this & it is strange. I’m not trying to cause anyone to argue or anything but I’ve noticed that when I get an upgrade it seems like it goes into voting & while it could be the best looking submission out of my nominations it gets denied & the others get reviewed & get accepted. I wanted to get some insight on this issue & see if possibly anyone else looking back has noticed the same issue. It’s just strange

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Comments

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 317 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That has not been my experience.

    100% of my submissions get upgraded because I review a ton and rarely submit.

  • TheZodiac007-PGOTheZodiac007-PGO Posts: 104 ✭✭

    I’ve noticed I’ve had better luck getting things accepted if they’re not upgraded

  • oscarc1-INGoscarc1-ING Posts: 164 ✭✭✭✭

    This seems to be purely based on area and the quality of the nomination.

    I can only get things accepted if they are upgraded, and I have never had any issues with upgrades because I present my nominations as well as possible and ensure everything meets the eligibility criteria and guidelines.

    Often I see people complaining about upgrades, notably going out to a larger pool of reviewers, and being rejected. Upon review, the nomination itself either wasn't eligible or wasn't presented well.

    If you want feedback on your nominations, post them in the Nomination Improvement forum.

  • TheZodiac007-PGOTheZodiac007-PGO Posts: 104 ✭✭
    edited January 11

    @oscarc1-ING I don’t need help with my nominations. I normally help a large group of others submit things as well in my community. I’m not the only one having this issue. The others I know have had this issue as well. I was just asking for advice. If anyone else has had the same issue on here because local to me at least upgraded nominations get denied in record times when something I wouldn’t accept myself that others I know submit gets accepted. I’ve had churches get denied that were upgraded & told in detail history about the church/etc. It’s just strange

  • Lechu1730-PGOLechu1730-PGO Posts: 89 ✭✭✭

    I don't know if upgrading a nomination makes a difference in my case, as I had both types of nominations rejected. I tried the nomination improvement forum, as well as the Wayfarer Reddit, and while I had some useful advice I also have the impression that the reviewing system is deeply broken (I think you saw may proposal of how to improve it).

    Basically, you have a subset of reviewers who set the bar quite high. For instance, in the surf school cabin nomination that was rejected the most common advice was to improve the picture. Mind you, it wasn't a bad picture though obviously not perfect. I also saw on Reddit a plaza not being considered notable enough, demanding an amazing backstory to support its inclusion, otherwise it would be little better than a random sidewalk. If that's the level of research required to nominate something... sorry, I already have a day job.

    Then you have another group of reviewers of whom everyone in the forums talk about, that supposedly 1* almost everything, as since most nominations are 1* anyway that gets them faster upgrades. Cool downs are supposed to put a stop them but you they don't seem to be effective. I've seen many people complaining about them but I never received one so I don't know how they work. In any case, you've probably seen people saying "It's a good submission, you had bad luck, try again", which reinforces my point of the system being broken. Worthy submissions get rejected all the time while total **** sometimes gets through.

  • Jtronmoore-PGOJtronmoore-PGO Posts: 452 ✭✭✭

    I find clear cut things like sports fields pavillions/gazebos if i upgrade they get accepted. If its an iffy one generally an upgrade gets denied

  • oscarc1-INGoscarc1-ING Posts: 164 ✭✭✭✭

    The bar isn't really that high, if you want to nominate things that aren't explicitly stated by Niantic to be good candidates, then you need to put the effort in to prove why the nomination is adherant to the guidelines and why it is notable.

    Simply getting a photo of a hut in the distance from a carpark because you had groceries isn't going to help your nomination be presented as best as it could and the information given in the nomination was lacklustre. Not sure about the plaza one, but likely its something that needs to be shown to be significant or distinct from all the other plazas (otherwise it could be considered a generic business).

    Feedback is important to improve those nominations, it would be awesome to see it taken on board and seeing the nominations being accepted rather than the feedback being completly dismissed.

    The "It's a good submission, you had bad luck, try again" comment is again usually because not enough effort was included on the original submission. It's easy to blame the faceless-anonymous reviewers, but ultimately it's up to the submitter to show why something should be a POI, not just to submit it and automatically assume it is the best.

    I can't comment on the 1 star group as I haven't experienced that where I am, this type of issue would be very regionally dependent.

  • Lechu1730-PGOLechu1730-PGO Posts: 89 ✭✭✭

    If it were only my submissions the problem, I would agree with you. After all, I came here (and other forums) to better understand how reviewing works and improve my nominations, which I don't claim they're perfect. But the issue is way deeper than me.

    As I mentioned, the suggestion for the plaza was "nominate the sign". While I disagree with the whole concept (signs are awful images to have in the game to represent the wayspot) lets go with it being the correct approach. Now you have in nomination improvement someone who did just that for a park / preserve and was rejected asking for advice. The advice: "the name of the park isn't prominently displayed on the sign. Looks generic and should be rejected. Ask the city council to put a better one and submit that". Seriously? It gets ridiculous!

    To be honest, nothing seems good enough for some reviewers.

  • SeaprincessHNB-PGOSeaprincessHNB-PGO Posts: 51 ✭✭✭

    I have noticed a significant change in Upgraded rejections since L38 trainers got access to the system. I know there is always a learning curve so I was happy to be patient and wait for people to just figure it out and get better. But that doesn't seem to be happening. I had the entrance to a city park denied and the only rejection reason listed was that it wasn't culturally relevant. That means enough people voted 1 or 2 on a CITY PARK ENTRANCE SIGN to get it rejected. I lay this blame entirely on Niantic for not explaining to people that "cultural relevance" doesn't mean "fancy pants" and that a 1 or 2 star in any category means you are rejecting it. It is incredibly frustrating that no matter how well you describe a submission, people are still confused by individual parts of the process and have the power to reject perfectly acceptable nominations.

  • Lechu1730-PGOLechu1730-PGO Posts: 89 ✭✭✭

    Well, that would be me for sure, at least until today. If the approval process isn't clearly explained you can expect it to keep being wrongly used.

  • Lechu1730-PGOLechu1730-PGO Posts: 89 ✭✭✭

    I just read again the Criteria as published in the Wayfarer page and it doesn't mention visual uniqueness or cultural relavance AT ALL. A new reviewer like me wouldn't have any guideline on how those questions should be rated.

  • TheZodiac007-PGOTheZodiac007-PGO Posts: 104 ✭✭
    edited January 15

    I completely agree with both of you @Lechu1730-PGO & @SeaprincessHNB-PGO

  • TheZodiac007-PGOTheZodiac007-PGO Posts: 104 ✭✭
    edited January 15

    @Jtronmoore-PGO that’s exactly how it goes for me but I’ve had a church denied that was upgraded as well. I almost wonder if an upgraded nomination isn’t completely up to us at times to vote upon. Regardless something seems a little off

  • LostMeli14-PGOLostMeli14-PGO Posts: 6 ✭✭

    I've noticed it too, i made 3 upgrades to parks and green areas that matchs with the criteria and all of them are denied.

  • TheZodiac007-PGOTheZodiac007-PGO Posts: 104 ✭✭
    edited January 15

    @LostMeli14-PGO I’ve noticed this too, the upgrade gives it more of a chance to be denied. I feel like it looks like I’m causing trouble & I’m not at all but I just wish we could get more info on it. Are Niantic only reviewing upgraded nominations/ Do they get reviewed by half the amount of people that normal noms do or what? This is a question we may try to get some clarity out of

  • Lechu1730-PGOLechu1730-PGO Posts: 89 ✭✭✭

    @TheZodiac007-PGO @LostMeli14-PGO At this point I'm more and more convinced that the most active reviewers have their minds set on what constitues a "good" nomination and reject everything that doesn't match that vision, regardless of what we may think Niantic guidelines suggest. Either you jump through all the required hoops or your chances of getting something approved are tanked. When you read nomination advice its quite clear that certain types of submissions which clearly meet Niantic guidelines for a good PoI are nevertheless considered rejectable, often by reasosn that aren't intrinsic to the PoI itself.

  • Hikaru588-INGHikaru588-ING Posts: 47 ✭✭

    @TheZodiac007-PGO from what I understand upgrading a nomination doesn't fundamentally change the review process.

    Just that it is presented to a much larger audience so therefore the necessary votes are achieve much sooner.

  • TheZodiac007-PGOTheZodiac007-PGO Posts: 104 ✭✭

    Makes absolute sense

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