Clarification on Wayfarer test answers.

Today I failed my Wayfarer test and I need some clarification because I have no idea why I failed. Most questions were trivial like about a temporary christmas tree or someone's private property but some answers were just absurd. The answer that made me confused the most was "Yes, it meets all criteria". What does it even mean? No guide explains it. Meets all criteria to be a wayspot? Or all of the following criteria from the guide of which a wayspot is required to meet at least one:

  • A great place for exploration
  • A great place for exercise
  • A great place to be social with others

One of the questions was about a beautifuly painted bus stop. I even googled to see if it was an unique thing and it was. So obviously it's a good wayspot. But my answers were:

  • Yes, a great place to social
  • Yes, a place significant to the community
  • Yes, it meets all criteria

It's obviously goes under "unique art or architecture". So the answer should be "a great place for exploration". But it was not there. I selected "Yes, it meets all criteria" because it does meet all criteria to be a wayspot. Was "Yes, a place significant to the community" a correct answer? Is "a place significant to the community" the same thing as "great place for exploration"? I thought it meant something like a statue or a plaque. Why are there 2 different answers that mean the same thing?

There were like 2 more questions like that that didn't have the right answer according to the guide and the only closest thing was "Yes, it meets all criteria" if the waypoint was acceptable.

I wasn't doing the test in english but in my native language. Could it be that the translation is just bad?

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Comments

  • Kroutpick-PGOKroutpick-PGO Posts: 359 ✭✭✭

    "Meets all criteria" means that

    1) it meets at least ONE of the Eligibility Criteria (exploration, exercice or social), AND

    2) it meets ALL Acceptance Criteria, AND

    3) it DOES NOT meet any Rejection Criteria.


    Otherwise, about how to answer the test, you must read and answer the specific question :

    If the question is "does it have safe pedestrian access?" Simply answer the question : 5* = yes, safe ; 1* = no safe pedestrian access. Don't ask yourself if it's a good and eligible wayspot. Don't judge the accuracy of the marker. Don't check if it's a private residential property, etc, just answer : is it safe?

    If the question is "is the location accurate?", then answer : 5* if the marker is at the perfect location, 3* if visible but not accurate OR "not visible on satellite but it's probably there" and 1* probably not there. Again, don't judge the safe pedestrian access or if it's on private residential property nor if it's a visually distinctive and eligible nomination. Just answer : is it accurate?

  • Siabada345-PGOSiabada345-PGO Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited January 2021

    Then what's the point of having multiple "yes" answers if you can always answer "meets all criteria" and it will be correct? So are there sometimes multiple correct answers? Like I had a question about a playground and there were both "a great social place" and "meets all criteria" (it was an accaptable wayspot, not next to a school or anything).

    I had 1 question about the safety and there were no other answers than about the safety so I answered what it asked me for.


    Edit: So for example if the question is "is a christmas decoration a good wayspot" and among the answers there are "yes, a great place for exploration" and "no, it's temporary" are they both correct? It is the exploration thing but it fails in all other criteria (it's temporary). I thought asking "is X a good waypoint" implies that when you answer "yes" it must "meet all criteria" otherwise how is that a good wayspot if it fails in some required criteria.

    This whole test is super confusing and has nothing to do with the actual reviews where you review each thing separately. It just throws you 5 completly unrelated answers like "yes, it's safe to access", "yes, a great social place", "yes, meets all criteria", "no, not safe to access" and "no, marker is in a wrong place". And now guess what you need to answer for a post office with 3* accuracy.

    Post edited by Siabada345-PGO on
  • Kroutpick-PGOKroutpick-PGO Posts: 359 ✭✭✭

    Again, what was the specific question? The key to pass this test is to read the question.

    if the question is "is a christmas decoration a good wayspot" and among the answers there are "yes, a great place for exploration" and "no, it's temporary" are they both correct?

    No, a christmas decoration is not a good wayspot because it's temporary, no matter if it's could meet another criteria.

    It just throws you 5 completly unrelated answers like "yes, it's safe to access", "yes, a great social place", "yes, meets all criteria", "no, not safe to access" and "no, marker is in a wrong place". And now guess what you need to answer for a post office with 3* accuracy.

    If the question was something like "is the location accurate?" : they pick an answer related to this question. Is the question was "is there a safe pedestrian access?", then select the appropriate answer with this question.

  • Siabada345-PGOSiabada345-PGO Posts: 7 ✭✭

    The question was "is it a good wayspot?". It's general. It doesn't imply the reason. So all the answers could be valid ones logically.

    Also could you give me an example where if you have a question "is it a good wayspot" and 2 answers:

    1. Yes, a great social place
    2. Yes, it meets all criteria

    1. would be correct but 2. incorrect? I still fail to see how logically "yes, meets all criteria" is different from just answering "yes" without giving any reason why.

    I start to think you think I'm asking those questions hypothetically. But those are literally the questions I got in the test. With those possible answers I listed. I just want to make that clear.

    Thank you for your help. I appreciate.

  • Kellerrys-INGKellerrys-ING Posts: 691 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You're now practically asking correct choices for a question. Which

    1) is difficult to answer without rembering the actual photo and question + answer choices

    2) I don't think is allowed on official Wayfarer forum

    ps. You might (or might not) find an older discussion of same topic useful.

    https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/44170#Comment_44170

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2021

    Anyone who says "meets all criteria" clearly shows that they don't know the criteria. Nothing "meets all criteria". If something "meets all criteria", then it should be rejected because it meets the rejection criteria. And even most things only meets one criterion of the Eligibility Criteria. It is extreamly rare to see something that meets all three eligibility criteria.

  • Siabada345-PGOSiabada345-PGO Posts: 7 ✭✭

    "Meets all criteria" means that

    1) it meets at least ONE of the Eligibility Criteria (exploration, exercice or social), AND

    2) it meets ALL Acceptance Criteria, AND

    3) it DOES NOT meet any Rejection Criteria.


    Nothing "meets all criteria". If something "meets all criteria", then it should be rejected because it meets the rejection criteria.


    So which one is it? That's my whole problem with "meets all criteria". I have no idea what it means, same as you it seems. But it's literally one of the answers in some questions I had on the test. It literally said "Yes, it meets all criteria" alongside answers like "Yes, a great social place". So is the answer never correct and it's just a trap?


    That's why I'm not giving away any full questions with actual photos. That would be against the rules as you say. I'm not looking for a ready answers. I want to understand what the answer "yes, meets all criteria" means and when it should be the answer. I want an example question where it would be a correct answer.

    I read the link you sent me and appreciate. But that's not the problem I'm having. The example locations in the test were pretty straight forward and missing information could easily be fulfilled with a simple Google search, like if you are not sure if something is unique enough to be a wayspot.

    Ok I'm going to give 2 example questions that are made up but the answers and eligibility criteria are the actual ones I had on my test.

    Let's go to the guide and take the example from "A great place to be social with others". Post Office. Just imagine a picture, no need to post a random picture from the internet. 5* accuracy, 5* safety. The question is "is it a good wayspot?" Answers:

    • Yes, a great social place
    • Yes, meets all criteria
    • No, not safe to access
    • No, marker is in a wrong place

    Which one would you choose? Please explain why that and not the other answers.

    Now let's go with a historic plaque. Public property (not school), 5* accuracy, 5* safety. From "A great place for exploration" example. Same question again "Is it a good wayspot?". And exactly the same answers as for the first question.

    • Yes, a great social place
    • Yes, meets all criteria
    • No, not safe to access
    • No, marker is in a wrong place

    Which one would you choose? Please explain why that and not the other answers.


    Please don't tell me a Post Office or a historic plaque are not safe to access especially when there are people walking next to it in the Street View or that I'm so incompetent I can't tell the marker is not right on the object in question.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And I see that you put yourself into a mental trap. "Meets all criteria" literally means that it meets ALL criteria, not just some. Some =/= all. And as I said, it if meets all criteria, that also means it meets the rejection criteria.

  • Kellerrys-INGKellerrys-ING Posts: 691 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Answering to hypothetic questions without all the information would be propably misleading and, to be blunt, waste of time. And no, reading your text (nor added text) doesn't give me needed information.

    For what it is worth, I don't think the test is very good nor reflection of the actual reviewing. Good luck for your next try.

  • Kroutpick-PGOKroutpick-PGO Posts: 359 ✭✭✭

    I never thought that "meets all" included the fact that it also meets rejection... but I could agree with @TheFarix-PGO about this.

    Thinking like this, it's not hard to believe that "Meets all" is never the good answer.

    About your 2 hypothetical questions:

    -The post office would be a great place to be social, as it is listed in that Eligibility Criteria

    -The historic place would be a great place for exploration, as is listed in that Eligibility Criteria

  • Siabada345-PGOSiabada345-PGO Posts: 7 ✭✭

    What if there is no "a great place for exploration" as an answer? That's what happened to me on the test.

    Maybe the translation is just mixed up and the test actually makes sense in english?


    See? Because you guys are thinking like a reviewer. The test has very little to do with the actual reviewing. While reviewing you are breaking things up into categories then putting all the pieces together to make a judgement. On the test you have to give 1 answer. And if the question is "is this a good wayspot?" the answers may be about eligibility, accuracy, safety or even something else. All mixed up. I understand that by a process of elimination you can be left with 1 correct answer. But that wasn't always the case if you don't know what "meets all criteria" means.

    Also while reviewing you have to deal with some not trivial cases. Objects in question on the test are REALLY straightforward. Like, you have the Post Office, the wayspot is called "Post Office", there is a building in the middle of the city on which it says "Post Office", when you Google it, the Post Office shows up with a phone number that you can even call to ask if this is a Post Office. And the marker is right next to the doors. The things that are confusing are the answers. Have you ever had to choose between "a good place to be social" and "meets all criteria" while actually reviewing the nomination?


    Is there anyone from Niantic that can clarify what does "yes, meets all criteria" on the test mean and when that answer should be used?

    1. I thought it means all 3 eligibility criteria, all acceptance criteria, no rejection criteria.
    2. @Kroutpick-PGO says it means at least 1 eligibility criteria, all acceptance criteria and no rejection criteria.
    3. @TheFarix-PGO says it means all 3 eligbility criteria, all acceptance criteria and all rejection criteria.

    There are cases where depending on the meaning none of the answers would be correct, multiple answers would be correct, or selecting "yes, meets all criteria" if the answer is "yes" would always be correct (a.k.a. "wildcard" answer without needing to specify the reason).


    Also as a sidenote I don't have any reading comprehension problems. I understand what I'm reading. Especially when it is in my native language.

    The "yes, meets all criteria" thing made it so confusing I started doubting in the logic of the test. My (probably wrong) understanding of "yes, meets all criteria" made the answers nonsensical and made some further questions unanswerable when continuing with the same logic. The guide for the actual reviewing is very straightforward and easy to understand. But the test requires a guide on its own (what does "meets all criteria" mean and why is it even an answer?).

    I just want to clarify things before I take the test again next month. I need to be absolutely sure what it means since I only have 1 go and if I fail I'm out forever. So there is no room for guessing what means what. As everyone can see there are mixed opinions about the meaning already.


    @Kellerrys-ING Thanks for good luck wishes.

  • flatmatt-PGOflatmatt-PGO Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The test isn't supposed to be a cryptic riddle, though. It's very easy to mentally complete the phrase as "meets all criteria [for acceptance]," which isn't an unreasonable interpretation, even if your interpretation might technically be correct. This is the Wayfarer exam, not a college-level Intro to Logic final. If the question and answers are phrased as reported, it just seems to be another poorly-thought-out question.

    (And given that we aren't Niantic employees, we can't even say for sure what the "right" answer is supposed to be.)

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, we don't know what's the question that you got and we can't claim that it's a proper question because we know that previously there were some questions that contradicted the review guidelines with regards to safety of roundabouts.

    Besides that, it seems that you had a non-English test, so it's possible that there's some mistake in the translation, so we can't help you with exact answers about your doubts.

    Obviously Niantic won't detail here the correct answer to that test, so the only thing that you can do next time is to screenshot all the questions and if you have bad luck then post them to show the problem (maybe in other site as they might quickly remove from this forum).

    Good luck next time and try to not overthink them, usually they are easy questions that are focused on only one aspect of the review process and only one good answer.

  • Jtronmoore-PGOJtronmoore-PGO Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would say a bus stop doesn’t meet all criteria as it doesn’t promote exercise, socialization or exploration. No one goes to a bus stop to socialize. If the picture was of a mural on the bus stop it might be a good stop if access is there( there should be if its a bus stop) but generally a bus stop doesn’t meet any requirement

  • Siabada345-PGOSiabada345-PGO Posts: 7 ✭✭

    No one goes to a bus stop to socialize.


    I wouldn't agree with that. In Eastern Europe's culture people do that. But only in rural areas. They sit at the bus stop to just talk to each other. Mostly old people. But I agree that by Niantic's standards a regular bus stop is not a good wayspot.

  • Jtronmoore-PGOJtronmoore-PGO Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭✭✭

    By that I mean no one goes to a bus stop to generally hang out with others. You go to a bus stop to get on the bus lol but i get what your saying

  • Siabada345-PGOSiabada345-PGO Posts: 7 ✭✭

    Hey.

    I just wanted to give an update. I took the test again. This time in english. I passed it. It was super easy. All questions made sense. The answers were related to the questions. I had one question that I had before but with completly different answers (I think) because this time they made sense (I don't remember what the exact answers were).

    I think the translation is just really bad. And from doing the test in both languages I think "no, it doesn't meet any acceptance criteria" is translated as "yes, it meets all criteria". That would make a lot of sense.

    So the conclusion is do the test in english only.

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