No matter how valid the stop is, the rejection is nearly instant.

Powercube-PGOPowercube-PGO Posts: 4 ✭✭
edited January 2021 in General Discussion

Me and a friend have spent the past few weeks scouring the neighborhood to find new and exciting POIs to add, to improve everyone's experience playing both Ingress and Pokemon Go. There have been several new developments built recently so we went to those areas specifically to find new items which would not be duplicates in areas that are not as dense with POIs. After submitting and resubmitting these POIs which meet every criteria and getting them rejected within 1 or 2 days, we are convinced there is an Auto-Reject for anything submitted that isn't blatantly visible from street view (even if street view is from 3 years ago). It seems as if people who are medal hunting have realized it's far easier to reject a stop than to accept and it is beginning to hurt the community overall.

What can we do? We've recently submitted photospheres but it is up to Google when or if they show up.

Thank you for your assistance.

Comments

  • Euthanasio2-PGOEuthanasio2-PGO Posts: 272 ✭✭✭

    I had to do photospheres for almost every single of my nominations in the trail next to my home. If it makes you feel better, it usually doesn't take that long to be accepted

  • Euthanasio2-PGOEuthanasio2-PGO Posts: 272 ✭✭✭

    I had to do photospheres for almost every single of my nominations in the trail next to my home. If it makes you feel better, it usually doesn't take that long to be accepted on google. Les than a day

  • Euthanasio2-PGOEuthanasio2-PGO Posts: 272 ✭✭✭

    I had to do photospheres for almost every single of my nominations in the trail next to my home. If it makes you feel better, it usually doesn't take that long to be accepted on google. Les than a day

  • Powercube-PGOPowercube-PGO Posts: 4 ✭✭

    Here's the problem, nowhere does it say a photosphere is required for acceptance. You also can't control when/if photospheres show up. There needs to be clarification. Supporting photos should show the stop exists or does not exist on its own.

  • oscarc1-INGoscarc1-ING Posts: 366 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Photospheres aren't required but they can help to confirm the location.

    There might be other issues that are being overlooked, I would suggest posting a couple of your nominations in Nomination Improvement and the community here can help you to see if there is anything that should be done or changed to give them a better chance. eg. if your supporting photo actually shows the object, or just the ground (like many nominations do unfortunately).

  • Powercube-PGOPowercube-PGO Posts: 4 ✭✭

    Thanks, but we both have long experience reviewing, and it’s getting weirder. We just had a decorative bicycle rack (more of an art piece) in downtown rejected for being both in a sensitive location and a natural feature. It’s neither of those things. Something is amiss.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2021

    Post examples of your nominations, including location, title, descriptions, supporting info, and supporting photo and we can see what may be the reasons behind the rejections. Time after time when someone complains of repeated rejections, it is because their nominations are not good or they are nominating things that aren't eligible despite their claims that they "meets all criteria". Thus, when someone says that a nomination "meets all criteria", it become a reflection of the nominator's ignorance of what the criteria states.

  • Nadiwereb-PGONadiwereb-PGO Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Please show us your nominations, because it's really hard to say anything without knowing what we're talking about. It might be something easy to fix, like watermarks on your pictures (which would, indeed, make it an auto-rejection). Or it might be something more subtle.

  • TheSFAdmiral-PGOTheSFAdmiral-PGO Posts: 65 ✭✭✭

    How does one do a photosphere? step by step, explain like I'm 5 please lmao

  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    Rejections in general are often ridiculous. I had a clock tower rejected for being temporary (clock towers are buildings, how is that temporary), a welcome sign to a multifamily complex for being private residents, and a memorial that has been in the same spot for 3 years for being a seasonal display (google earth phot had it in place since 2018). There really needs to be an appeal process and Niantic needs to figure out a way to encourage better reviewing practices. Like a bigger negative mark or triggered cooldown on your account for rejecting stops that ultimately go through.

  • flatmatt-PGOflatmatt-PGO Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭✭✭

    See, a "decorative bike rack" doesn't sound like something that's obviously eligible. Most decorative bike racks that get submitted should be rejected, as they are generally mass-produced items instead of actual artwork. If the bike rack is truly original art, you would need to demonstrate that to the reviewers. (And yes, many such bike racks have been accepted, rightly or wrongly, in the past. That doesn't mean that they should be accepted now.)

    So you really do need to post examples of the submissions that have been getting rejected, with both photos, title, description, supporting information, and preferably location.

  • Powercube-PGOPowercube-PGO Posts: 4 ✭✭

    Trust me, it is- what you're saying is ignoring the context of the situation. Rather than focusing on the content of what I said, you decided that what is more or less a local art installation is not valid rather than the fact it was rejected not for that, but for being in a graveyard! The fact that such a small minority of people - often not local to the area - have so much power over nominations is beginning to become absurd. Again, you get more agreements for the medal by disagreeing. That's the fundamental problem with the wayfarer system.

  • Hikaru588-INGHikaru588-ING Posts: 538 ✭✭✭✭

    As @Hosette-ING has mentioned try to include landmarks in your supporting photo that are visible in the current satellite and/or street view images if you can.

    Use a portion of your supporting statement to explain how the location can be verified, referencing your supporting photo or some other accessible source.

  • MessiPy-INGMessiPy-ING Posts: 122 ✭✭✭

    Having street view does not guarantee that some requests will be accepted either, since there are still areas where ingress players reject waypost requests so as not to favor the enemy faction

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ingresss reviewers are a minority and they can be aware only of their own city.

  • SPD85-PGOSPD85-PGO Posts: 170 ✭✭✭✭

    You're not wrong, there are a large number of people who default to rejecting everything, including eligible submissions. This is one of the most frustrating things as a submitter and it also contributes to the backlog as we are forced to resubmit eligible wayspots over and over again until they are accepted. These reviewers fly through rejections, giving reasons at random. That being said, without seeing your specific nominations, I cannot comment on whether yours should have been accepted or not.

  • yanghao1-INGyanghao1-ING Posts: 56 ✭✭

    If you go into the Nomination Management section of wayfarer and take screenshots of the rejected waypoints it would help people looking at this thread determine why it was rejected. Just saying "it meets criteria" in a comment isn't enough.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    So...where was the nomination? How could it have been rejected as a "sensitive location?"

    And I'll be the first in here to admit that, while reviewing on my phone, I'll sometimes accidentally hit the wrong rejection reason and miss it before hitting submit. "Natural feature" isn't immediately next to "other rejection reason," but it's still possible. Incorrect rejections isn't always blatant abuse.

    And...again, like most others have said, we'd really need to see the nomination details, otherwise it's just a baseless complaint and, sorry, comes off as hiding something.

  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    Let me start by saying I have submitted nearly 100 stops between three accounts. Learned a lot from my early mistakes, so now my photos are spot on and my submissions are tailored to match my subject matter. I generally will go in and edit them after submission to make sure there are no spelling errors and the proper context is included.

    Upgrading stops is near useless now. Just had a stop that was a shoe in get rejected, government office building, Department of Motor Vehicles. The photo was flawless, the real world location was directly on top of the pin on google maps. Here were the rejection reasons.

    "The real world location of the nomination appears to be a private residential property or farm. The real-world lcoation of the nomination appears to be sensitive (e.g. non-historic or culturally signficant gravestone or cememteries)."

    Neither of these things were true. It is no where near a private residence, and correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe there are any top secret govt documents that are stored at a DMV substation.

    @NianticCasey-ING something needs to be done about these reviewers. We need an appeal process and there needs to be consequences for folks that are declining legitimate stops so they can get a better rating.

  • flatmatt-PGOflatmatt-PGO Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I didn't say your submission was ineligible. I said that most bike rack submissions that I see are ineligible. Without seeing your submission, I have no idea if yours is eligible or not, and I have no idea if it was presented in a way that would be convincing to reviewers. I can't simply take your word that it was eligible, as I have repeatedly seen people insist that their submissions are 100% eligible only to find that they are not good submissions. It's nothing personal, but it is my general experience.

    Also,the "sensitive location" rejection can be frustrating if it is not accurate. Please keep in mind that that particular rejection reason was added very recently and is not very well described to reviewers in Wayfarer.

  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks Gendgi, I had not seen the quote about gov't departments but I have seen other such government buildings, specifically DMV's show up in game. I will say though I strongly disagree with the assertion that DMV's aren't gathering places or POI's. Have you every been to one that isn't packed with the public? (preCOVID). Its as much of a POI as nearly any Town Hall is (probably more popular too).

    Thanks for the response, but I will echo something that has been voiced several times in this thread, as this has not been my only upgraded stop that gets immediate rejection. The rejections are over the top. See my previous post, as this was the fourth rejection of an upgraded stop in the last month. Upgrades = near auto rejection since they implemented the in game medals.

    I'm also curious why the multi account is an issue? We have three accounts over 38 as family, myself, my wife, and my son all have account. Is there an issue with coordinating submitting stops?

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    Do you go to the DMV to be social? Do you take visitors there for the afternoon to learn about your community? I go there to file paperwork and pay bills. I wouldn't consider that in any way to be the same as a place to be social with others.

    Let me start by saying I have submitted nearly 100 stops between three accounts. 

    That's cool if you want to assist others who are eligible to nominate, especially if you're coordinating in similar areas as to not create potential duplicates. What you said is that you submitted nearly 100 stops between three accounts. My statement should have been phrased "careful tagging Casey while potentially implicating yourself of multi accounting."

  • Tjwoosicle-PGOTjwoosicle-PGO Posts: 12 ✭✭

    Iv had the same issue over all my current nominations, i recently put in a valid park sign , was rejected with the message of because its a living animal. The reviewers just don't care or just hit no on all submissions right now its ****, you try make the game more interactive and your shut down !!!

  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    Not saying I don't understand the argument against a DMV in a vacuum but it can start a circular argument about nearly every Town Hall in the US. Are they gathering spots or a place that you would take someone to socialize or learn about the community? Maybe...., but in most cases nearly every town is generally a place you go to pay your taxes, get a new set of tags for your dog, file paperwork for a permit and leave. Not saying all fit that description, and aren't unique in other ways, but the vast majority will be just that. What about the random memorial plaque on a street sign that you may only walk by. Would you gather around that with a group of tourists to look at someone's name on a piece of metal? Do you go their to socialize? At least a DMV is a public place that is widely used by nearly every individual, just as a TH would be. Listen you can easily dive down a rabbit hole of "what about this example" with that statement. Trying to point out a vast inconsistency with that argument that I see. I'd also point out this DMV wasn't in some square office building but an older building with what I would consider unique architecture. So again I disagree with that assertation, as it provides guidance for immediate rejection by making a hard and fast rule, instead of using guidelines that should be widely interpreted based on local knowledge. But its a DMV so it got immediately rejected. Again it goes back to the real issue, which I still don't see addressed, of immediate rejection of upgraded stops, which is what the post is really about.

    My statement should have been phrased "careful tagging Casey while potentially implicating yourself of multi accounting."

    I am still interested in this, as I have considered making an alt account recently. Is multi accounting frowned upon? I had not read this anywhere but to be fair I also had not looked into it, but it is a common practice in with several of the social media groups I raid with. Any information you could provide would be appreciated.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    City halls often have community gathering rooms available for the community to utilize. They usually host town hall meetings where residents can learn about the community events and have an impact on the area. Please note that the quote I provided by Casey is a generalization, not all City halls will simply be accepted, and DMVs aren't always immediately ineligible - there's no such thing as a "shoe in" nomination. Each one really should explain the value the potential POI brings to the community. No offense intended, but I've reviewed several DMVs and the best the Supporting usually can muster is "Would be great to have a PokeyStop while waiting in line." That's not value.

    For your other examples, not all plaques are eligible, and many have been erroneously accepted. Plaques can help teach people about the community. You're already opening up the rabbit hole that some of us have seen that literally leads to "gathering spaces are eligible, all gathering places are eligible and utilized, this street that people drive on daily is an eligible candidate." I don't think that's where you're going with that, and I sincerely understand your assertion of the DMV while maintaining that it wasn't a "shoe in" as you described.

    I review a lot. I've slowed down lately, but had earned since being a reviewer over 200 upgrades. Only a small handful of my nominations upgraded have been rejected -ironically, most recently, a playground was rejected on upgrade. Most of what I upgrade isn't "per the guides" eligible, and I'd be lying if I said I thought they were all shoe ins. But to your point "the real issue...of immediate rejection of upgraded stops" - well, the whole point of upgrade is for more immediate closure of the nomination. An upgrade opens your nomination to a wider audience for a faster resolution - for me, a non upgrade can take over a year to be accepted or denied, whereas an upgrade typically takes hours. So, "immediate rejection of upgraded stops" is mostly working as intended, although there has been a long standing complaint that upgraded nominations are disproportionately denied. I won't pretend to be ignorant of that, and I partly agree. But to that point, a wider audience is more likely to be overly critical and less aware of local culture. I might accept a nomination for a local store in my area that I personally know, even if it has a relatively "weak" supporting statement, or a new construction I've personally driven by. But if I see something similar in California (I'm in Iowa), I may be more critical because I don't know.

    Anyways, I appreciate the candor and the open discussion. I don't want to bloviate any more. ToS aren't always super well known and multi accounting is very common in the world of PoGO, but section 3.1 in the link provided outlines Niantic's stance.

    https://nianticlabs.com/terms/

  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    Excellent use of "bloviate", tbh I had to look the word up, lol. Your candor is appreciated as well. This is valuable feedback for me and the community at large I believe.

    I am no where near 200 upgrades but I will mention that prior to the medallion addition in game the denials had not been as prevalent. Maybe you have not experieced this with slowing down lately (btw you've earned it) But to your point about them being denied more often, and classifying as "working as intended", I would argue that the game mechanics now promote denying things in wayfarer. As I understand it it takes fewer rejections to get something completed then it does approvals. To your point "a non upgrade can take over a year to be accepted or denied", Since level 43, 45, and 47 literally requires you to get 5, 10, & 20 platinum badges respectively, **** through and 1staring submissions is any easy way to get agreements on submissions and that badge out of the way. They have created an incentive to deny stops. They broke what sounds like it has been an already fairly flawed system.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    As I understand it it takes fewer rejections to get something completed then it does approvals.

    Never confirmed nor denied by Niantic, I have similar suspicions, though. I've seen people spread on Facebook and elsewhere "just deny everything for faster upgrades." That theory has obvious shortcomings.

    I think the Wayfarer badge in PoGO is too low, but I also don't like people being incentived to review when there is poor guidance and accountability for nominators and reviewers.

    I don't think Niantic has intentionally created incentive to deny, but I can get behind the community interpreting it as such and that Niantic has not acted sufficiently to stop that.

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