Multi-age education facilities.

SiIverLyra-PGOSiIverLyra-PGO Posts: 948 ✭✭✭✭✭

Are there any clear guidelines on those?

A while back, a wayspot for an education facility in a nearby city was removed by NIA. That place operates as both a high school and a college, and even offers courses for pensioners.

If an education facility also serves students under 18, does it automatically make it ineligible?



  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If it used by Under-18 pupils, then K-12 applies, it does not matter if older dtudents can attend too.

  • Euthanasio2-PGOEuthanasio2-PGO Posts: 272 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2021

    Where I live, 17 years old going to college and even university is pretty normal(usually college, but for some programs you can directly attend university). I suppose it's a cultural difference. The last years for high school is usually 16. So you can attend higher education at 16 depending on your birth month. Basically schools for adults are 16+. Bars are 18+

    I think in U.S.A it's 18 and 21 though?

  • SeaprincessHNB-PGOSeaprincessHNB-PGO Posts: 1,249 Ambassador
    edited January 2021

    I want to see the rules on that. The idea behind denying K-12 is to "protect" kids under 18. But if the very nature of the establishment puts them in contact, possibly even in classes with people over 18, what are we protecting them from? They and their parents know and have CHOSEN to send them to a place where they will interact with students over 18. We shouldn't care more about their "protection" than their own parents do.

    Also, it is quite common for people to start college/university at 17. So we are already approving places where people under 18 may be receiving an education.

  • JellicleDana-PGOJellicleDana-PGO Posts: 38 ✭✭

    What I have wondered about is the public library for the town is in the same building as the school. I haven’t tried submitting it, but I am curious about whether it is eligible. Different entrances, same building. Small town.

  • Euthanasio2-PGOEuthanasio2-PGO Posts: 272 ✭✭✭

    Indeed. But I believe that americans are often still in high school at 18. At least that's what I get from american tv shows lol.

  • flatmatt-PGOflatmatt-PGO Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's kind if a judgment call. I would think about:

    - Who is the primary audience for the education offered at the school? Just because high school students sometimes take courses at a university doesn't make a location at the university ineligible. And just because a student could turn 19 before graduating high school doesn't make a location at the high school eligible.

    - In the case where a campus is used for both, are there specific buildings or areas dedicated to the K-12 age group? Is it a case where people of all ages take courses all over the campus, or is there a building or wing that is basically a high school (even if the high school students also take courses elsewhere on campus)?

    In the specific case mentioned in the original post, I would need more information before forming an opinion.

  • SiIverLyra-PGOSiIverLyra-PGO Posts: 948 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have tried finding more information on this - unfortunately I couldn't find much.

    Basically, the facility offers courses for high school graduates to take which postpones their army service (we have mandatory conscription here) and allows them to specialize in specific professions which they will then work at during their service. As far as I could understand it's 100% post-high school education.

    I'm not sure about the different buildings. The campus itself includes more than one building at the very least, I know there's also a community center somewhere there. I don't really know more than that, I frequent the general area but never go directly by the school.

    This case just made me wonder, because it's slightly unusual (all other high schools I know of strictly fall under Niantic's K-12 rule). It also relates to a different subject of discussion in my local community - elementary/high school campuses often contain buildings that are used for general community activities (usually sports halls and community centers, usually used for community activities after school hours). Personally I still reject those buildings under the same K-12 rule, but I do see the point other people make, and it makes me wonder.

  • Kroutpiick-PGOKroutpiick-PGO Posts: 370 ✭✭✭✭

    I agree with @Euthanasio2-PGO and @SeaprincessHNB-PGO about the main purpose of this rejection criteria + local/cultural purpose of higher education.

    Then, IMO :

    -The "high school" building/part of the facility would be ineligible since all students are U-18.

    -The "college" building/part of the facility would be eligible, even if there are some U-18 students that attend college if the higher education program of that area starts at 16 or 17 y.o.

    It also relates to a different subject of discussion in my local community - elementary/high school campuses often contain buildings that are used for general community activities (usually sports halls and community centers, usually used for community activities after school hours). Personally I still reject those buildings under the same K-12 rule, but I do see the point other people make, and it makes me wonder.

    @SiIverLyra-PGO, take a look here :

    And also from older AMA's :

    September 2018 AMA

    Q5: In the December 11th AMA, NIAOps confirmed that we should treat scout camps and installations as schools because of the target age range. This raises some questions regarding youth clubs and centres - should we be treating them as schools as well and rating 1* overall? If this is the case, is there any chance that the criteria can be updated please as there are a lot of scout huts, youth centres, etc. making their way through OPR.

    A5: According to NIA OPS, “If it is only for K12 age children, it should be rated with a one star. If it is for adults and kids it can be rated based on the other criteria.”

    November 2019 AMA

    Q56: Can we have a clarification on whether all properties owned by Scouts and Guides should be marked as "K12" please?

    A56: I am told that if they’re full-time Cadet or Scout buildings where the primary purpose is gathering of people in the K-12 age range with a membership component, it would be considered similar to a private daycare center and ineligible. However, if it’s a public gathering place that’s occasionally used for Scout or Guide meetings, then yes it would be eligible.

  • flatmatt-PGOflatmatt-PGO Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2021

    If the entire school is for students with a high school diploma (and particularly if it's for students who have already reached military age), it sounds pretty clearly like it would not meet the K-12 rejection/removal criteria. As for how to demonstrate this to Niantic, my first thought is to look for a website with a list of admission requirements including a high school diploma/equivalent.

    (I also probably wouldn't refer to such a school as a high school; it sounds more like what I'd call a type of trade school.)

    As far as the other discussion about the facilities at elementary/high schools, those sound like they would pretty clearly fall under the K-12 rejection criteria. It's not unusual here in the U.S. for the school district to make facilities available to the public after-hours, either (either by renting to individual groups or in partnership with the local government).

  • SeaprincessHNB-PGOSeaprincessHNB-PGO Posts: 1,249 Ambassador

    I am American. I started University at 17 in America. It is not super common but it is not super rare, either.

  • SiIverLyra-PGOSiIverLyra-PGO Posts: 948 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This confuses me. A while back a wayspot in my area was removed - a community center that's close to a high school.

    When I requested it to be restored, Niantic required of me to prove that it's not part of the school. (Still trying to get an answer from the municipality on that... It's not even on the school grounds - when you look at it on Street View, you can see the buildings are separated by a public boulevard).

    That response from Niantic implies that community centers on school grounds aren't eligible, even if they serve adult community members.

  • SeaprincessHNB-PGOSeaprincessHNB-PGO Posts: 1,249 Ambassador
    edited January 2021

    I recently submitted a social club for teens and young adults with high functioning autism. I'm not going to upgrade it because I want only the locals to vote on it. I know it's not a slam dunk, but it serves people from 12 - 21. It provides a place for these individuals to learn how to socialize. It hosts game nights. I think it is a really great candidate with the small caveat that it might not be accepted because some of the people it serves are under 18. But it seems to me that people with/on HFAS like Pokemon GO and would appreciate a stop or gym to enhance their game nights. Basically, I'm letting the community decide.

    The other place I really want to submit is a gym that teaches high level competitive cheerleading. It's basically a specialized kind of gymnastics - CheerSport. It is a recognized sport. People can earn college scholarships for the skills they develop through this gym. Unfortunately, once they get to college, they are probably done at this gym. Most of the students are probably in the K-12 age range. I have hesitated to submit it, though maybe with the popularity of that cheerleading show on Netflix it might pass.

  • SiIverLyra-PGOSiIverLyra-PGO Posts: 948 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a bit hard to translate, I'm not sure there are direct equivalents to this in the American education system. There is a high school that operates in that compound - the trade school is a different course, and it's definitely for high school graduates that are pre-military service. It's just called a "college". Judging from some googling/dictionaries, trade schools are a different thing here.

    The sign above the entrance to the main building reads "high school and college".

  • XapwvKhanon-PGOXapwvKhanon-PGO Posts: 86 ✭✭

    Una cosa es que interactúen con estudiantes más mayores y otra diferente que tengan que ver a personas jugando con un móvil, a demás si los jóvenes jugaden a Pokémon go se centraron más en el juego que en el estudio

  • Mormegil71-INGMormegil71-ING Posts: 202 ✭✭✭

    That criteria sometimes leads to very strange things. For an example, I've learned that there were daycare centers inside the World Trade Centers. If they still had stood, would this mean that the buildings, and everything in them, would be disqualified because of the K12 rule, despite them being one of the worlds greatest landmarks? I don't know if there is daycare centers inside Empire State Building, but if there are, should it be removed as a pokestop?

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