Bars/Pubs/Adult-Oriented Clarification
Sugarstarzkill-PGO
Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭✭
I consider myself to be relatively well educated, but this category admittedly confuses me! I saw another commenter with the same confusion so I figured a separate post to get some clarity would be good.
1.) What types of things fall under "adult oriented businesses "? I think obviously, **** clubs, s.e.x. shops, etc. But I think the confusion is a lot of people feel bars/pubs fall into this category BUT--
2.) Pubs. I have read pubs are good submissions, especially over in Europe.
I feel like "bars" are different from pubs but I can't really quantify why or how they are different. However, I have seen some unique breweries are also good submissions.
In the same vein- what about hookah bars? Instant reject or depends on the details? And other businesses that specialize in serving/selling things only adults can take part in (alcohol, tobacco, even marijuana now)
So--any info about all of this would be great- but it seems that alcohol serving establishments are NOT rejects for " adult oriented ", provided they meet the other criteria?
Best Answers
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Gendgi-PGO
Posts: 3,354 Ambassador
Two AMA discussions come to mind:
Q55: Can we confirm that products and places related to smoking (Head Shops, Weed Dispensaries, etc.) count as Adult Services and thus are instant 1*?
A55: NIA OPS clarified this for me and says, “That’s correct, because sale of marijuana isn’t legal globally, and where it is legal there is an age gate, these would be considered “Adult Services” under the criteria and therefore ineligible.”
Q52: Places like schools and private property say that we are to deny all nominations on those properties. Does this precident extend to the denials thst we are supposed to do on "Adult orientated Businesses" (strip clubs, liquor stores).
Example, a mural is painted on the wall of a marajuana shop. Are we to deny the mural because it's on a place that should not be accepted or are we to not worry about what type of business that it's on?
A52: The guidance from NIA OPS is, “The "businesses" themselves may not meet criteria since they would fall under generic businesses. A mural or candidate not related to the business should be reviewed on its own merit.”
Following pulled from Wayfarer clarifications...
Pubs and Restaurants that serve alcohol (including mall food courts)
- Acceptable: Eateries that have been featured prominently in travel guides, those with historical or cultural significance, or establishments that are popular tourist destinations. Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable.
- Not acceptable: Generic businesses with no distinguishing feature or significance or those that offer adult services (e.g. liquor stores, adult entertainment, shooting ranges, firearm stores that also offer food or snacks).
Nominations that are images of adult-oriented stores or services
Including liquor stores, adult entertainment, shooting ranges, firearm stores, etc. Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable.
Places like schools and private property say that we are to deny all nominations on those properties. Does this precedent extend to the denials that we are supposed to do on "Adult orientated Businesses" (strip clubs, liquor stores)? Example, a mural is painted on the wall of a marijuana shop. Are we to deny the mural because it's on a place that should not be accepted or are we to not worry about what type of business that it's on? The businesses themselves may not meet criteria since they would fall under generic businesses. A mural or candidate not related to the business should be reviewed on its own merit.
Now that that's all out of the way.
This seems to give permission for a mural, etc, to technically be eligible within an adult only establishment, regardless of what type of business it is, while the business itself is ineligible.
Many bars, pubs, and breweries are places to gather and don't have age restrictions.
If a nomination was made for a hookah lounge that was clearly open for all ages, I think it would be acceptable. However, since all that I know of are restricted to 18+, I would personally reject without evidence. Similarly, even though bars and pubs are eligible, if the bar was posted as an 18+ or 21+ up, I would feel inclined to reject the business.
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Gendgi-PGO
Posts: 3,354 Ambassador
Ugh. I posted but don't know if it actually posted, is pending approval, or I accidentally closed the screen before it went through.
So if this ends up being duplicated, at least the first post was better cited.
Bars and pubs seem to have different cultural significance that can also depend on local culture. Pubs tend to be more like a dining establishment that is open without age restriction, whereas bars tend to be where you go to drink. Neither are listed ineligible.
Based on my interpretation of the guides, it seems the ineligibility comes in where age restrictions exist. I would be inclined to believe bars or hookah lounges that are 18+/21+ only would be ineligible as the business itself, but candidates can still be eligible that are adjacent or inside such businesses.
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NorthSeaPoet-ING
Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭✭
Not all pubs serve food though but depending on their license, some/most pubs allow minors (under 18) in until a certain time. My local allows minors in until 9pm.
Pubs and bars are almost the same thing but pubs tend to be more in countries with a slightly more British influence. Also, generally speaking, bars tend to have the one bar whereas a pub will usually have several bars.
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NorthSeaPoet-ING
Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭✭
No problem!
I included the age restrictions after certain times in my original comment just so it didn't read like I was insinuating that pubs are adult oriented only. I think pubs that serve food are more lenient (depending on their license) in regards to minors but I could be wrong - it's been a while since I've worked in a bar/pub/drinking establishment.
In regards to the wording, we have both bars and pubs over here in the UK. Generally speaking, a lot of our pubs tend to be in older buildings as many will have been originally opened up as far back as the 1600s and as late as the 1800s or early 1900s, whereas our bars tend to be in more modernish buildings or at least have a more modern decor.
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FuzzySun-ING
Posts: 47 ✭✭✭
It doesn't matter whether minors are allowed in or not:
"Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable."
It doesn't say they have to have been in place for many years - that might have a bearing on how good of a candidate a place is, but not on whether it is eligible.
I think weapon firing ranges were mentioned (but it was censored) - those are ineligible according to the same page. The erotic bars/clubs likewise. Marijuana places are no good according to a recent AMA answer (https://ingressama.com/search?q=Marijuana). Hookah bars: grey area.
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NorthSeaPoet-ING
Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭✭
Acceptable if they meet criteria, otherwise they're just a generic business.
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rangersbc72-PGO
Posts: 62 ✭✭✭
@NianticCasey-ING please add this topic to the "List of Confusing Things" for the next major release.
I believe that Vineyards should be explicitly stated as eligible, and my interpretation of the spirit of the guidance is that the bar (pun intended) should be set such that the establishment is more than a basic, nondescript drinkery.
The Mcsorleys establishment linked above would likely make a great candidate; the neighborhood corner dive bar...not so much. My 2€.
Thanks!
Answers
The starred word is s.t.r.i.p. clubs. Thought to dodge the filter for the 3 letter word but didnt realize that 5 letter one would trigger it haha
Two AMA discussions come to mind:
Q55: Can we confirm that products and places related to smoking (Head Shops, Weed Dispensaries, etc.) count as Adult Services and thus are instant 1*?
A55: NIA OPS clarified this for me and says, “That’s correct, because sale of marijuana isn’t legal globally, and where it is legal there is an age gate, these would be considered “Adult Services” under the criteria and therefore ineligible.”
Q52: Places like schools and private property say that we are to deny all nominations on those properties. Does this precident extend to the denials thst we are supposed to do on "Adult orientated Businesses" (**** clubs, liquor stores).
Example, a mural is painted on the wall of a marajuana shop. Are we to deny the mural because it's on a place that should not be accepted or are we to not worry about what type of business that it's on?
A52: The guidance from NIA OPS is, “The "businesses" themselves may not meet criteria since they would fall under generic businesses. A mural or candidate not related to the business should be reviewed on its own merit.”
Following pulled from Wayfarer clarifications...
Pubs and Restaurants that serve alcohol (including mall food courts)
Nominations that are images of adult-oriented stores or services
Including liquor stores, adult entertainment, **** ranges, firearm stores, etc. Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable.
Places like schools and private property say that we are to deny all nominations on those properties. Does this precedent extend to the denials that we are supposed to do on "Adult orientated Businesses" (**** clubs, liquor stores)? Example, a mural is painted on the wall of a marijuana shop. Are we to deny the mural because it's on a place that should not be accepted or are we to not worry about what type of business that it's on? The businesses themselves may not meet criteria since they would fall under generic businesses. A mural or candidate not related to the business should be reviewed on its own merit.
Now that that's all out of the way.
This seems to give permission for a mural, etc, to technically be eligible within an adult only establishment, regardless of what type of business it is, while the business itself is ineligible.
Many bars, pubs, and breweries are places to gather and don't have age restrictions.
If a nomination was made for a hookah lounge that was clearly open for all ages, I think it would be acceptable. However, since all that I know of are restricted to 18+, I would personally reject without evidence. Similarly, even though bars and pubs are eligible, if the bar was posted as an 18+ or 21+ up, I would feel inclined to reject the business.
Ugh. I posted but don't know if it actually posted, is pending approval, or I accidentally closed the screen before it went through.
So if this ends up being duplicated, at least the first post was better cited.
Bars and pubs seem to have different cultural significance that can also depend on local culture. Pubs tend to be more like a dining establishment that is open without age restriction, whereas bars tend to be where you go to drink. Neither are listed ineligible.
Based on my interpretation of the guides, it seems the ineligibility comes in where age restrictions exist. I would be inclined to believe bars or hookah lounges that are 18+/21+ only would be ineligible as the business itself, but candidates can still be eligible that are adjacent or inside such businesses.
Thank you for some insight @Gendgi . That makes sense- that the restriction is mostly around places where you have to be 18/21 or however old to enter. I do think you're right that other candidates inside those establishments can still be approved (art, historic plaques) just not the business itself. This is how I've understood it but wasn't totally sure I was right.
But now that has me wondering about **** ranges- I've seen some people lump them in under not eligible because of the adult oriented rule, but at least in good old 'Merica, kids regularly go there with parents. Maybe niantic just doesn't want to include them overall though, not because of an age limit.
Not all pubs serve food though but depending on their license, some/most pubs allow minors (under 18) in until a certain time. My local allows minors in until 9pm.
Pubs and bars are almost the same thing but pubs tend to be more in countries with a slightly more British influence. Also, generally speaking, bars tend to have the one bar whereas a pub will usually have several bars.
As always, thanks for helping explain the way things are over the pond. Generally, stateside seems to be more geared towards dining or a "brew pub," though. I do add most of our "pubs" are British or United Kingdom themed. I don't know how guides should be clarified, but I personally don't think limited age restrictions based on hours of the day should matter, only if the establishment never allows minors to dinner.
Regardless of the differences & simulators amongst the two, the official classifications shouldn't really matter. Getting hung up on words makes it hard for different cultures and languages.
Anything within a fire arm ranges I still consider ineligible, and I say that as somebody who actively goes to such locations.
Safety is of paramount concern, and the entire facility is typically fenced and usually have separate "club houses" available, but I would never encourage anyone to venture there to play a Niantic phone game. They are safe, but not safe to wander around playing on your phone.
I think this could be clarified better, especially since if you consider them similar to the 18/21 restriction, a gazebo or mural within a firearm range would be allowed.
@NianticCasey-ING, could you clarify in this when you have a chance?
Anyone else's opinions?
No problem!
I included the age restrictions after certain times in my original comment just so it didn't read like I was insinuating that pubs are adult oriented only. I think pubs that serve food are more lenient (depending on their license) in regards to minors but I could be wrong - it's been a while since I've worked in a bar/pub/drinking establishment.
In regards to the wording, we have both bars and pubs over here in the UK. Generally speaking, a lot of our pubs tend to be in older buildings as many will have been originally opened up as far back as the 1600s and as late as the 1800s or early 1900s, whereas our bars tend to be in more modernish buildings or at least have a more modern decor.
Thank you everyone for the feedback thus far- I guess to simplify- if it's a 1) Fairly new establishment with no historical value 2.) A place where kids are never allowed in and 3) generic with nothing unique/special about it- it's probably not a good nomination.
I figure I'll leave this up another day or so just to see if there are differing opinions.
It doesn't matter whether minors are allowed in or not:
"Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable."
It doesn't say they have to have been in place for many years - that might have a bearing on how good of a candidate a place is, but not on whether it is eligible.
I think weapon firing ranges were mentioned (but it was censored) - those are ineligible according to the same page. The erotic bars/clubs likewise. Marijuana places are no good according to a recent AMA answer (https://ingressama.com/search?q=Marijuana). Hookah bars: grey area.
Being acceptable is not the same than being good candidates. It only means that they aren't auto-reject.
Yes, that was the question. The thread seems to be splitting bars and pubs and bringing in an age stipulation for bars and pubs that doesn't exist isn't in the guidance.
I brought in the age stipulations to demonstrate the difference between pubs and bars in the UK, not to say that one should be acceptable over the over due to the age stipulations.
So if there is no age stipulation (and I agree, I have no seen that specified) what is the intent behind the "adult oriented" stipulation? Just keeping things that are "inappropriate " out of the games? That is kind of murky which is why this seems to be kind of a weird category.
I believe that is the case, I could be wrong. However, I imagine if they allowed things like s-t-r-i-p clubs or s-h-o-o-t-i-n-g ranges as wayspots, parents of any young uns/teenagers that play the game would go full Karen mode and basically kick off at Niantic for allowing "things that aren't appropriate for the children".
For locations for firearm training, I personally consider the entire area ineligible. I say that as somebody who frequently uses these facilities.
On such ranges, safety is of paramount concern. Anywhere within the field typically has signs and fences to prevent anyone beginning being being at risk. There are clubhouses and member lounges available to safely congregate.
However, I wouldn't consider the facility at large safety accessible, especially for a phone platform AR game. I think it's a little different than a golf course or similar location, based on the inherent difference in safety associated with firearms.
@NianticCasey-ING, could you offer clarification if you think gazebos or unique artwork could be eligible on a range for firearms, or is the entire location considered off limits? Thanks!
For locations for firearm training, I personally consider the entire area ineligible. I say that as somebody who frequently uses these facilities.
On such ranges, safety is of paramount concern. Anywhere within range typically has signs and fences to prevent anyone beginning being being in jeopardy. There are clubhouses and member lounges available to safely congregate.
However, I wouldn't consider the facility at large safety accessible, especially for a phone platform AR game. I think it's a little different than a golf course or similar location, based on the inherent difference in safety associated with firearms.
@NianticCasey-ING, could you offer clarification if you think gazebos or unique artwork could be eligible on a range for firearms, or is the entire location considered off limits? Thanks!
@NianticCasey-ING, could more clarification be provided if a business that such as a bar or pub that ONLY allows 18/21+ would follow similar rules as the marijuana restriction based on age?
Additionally, could clarification about things that are typically eligible also be valid on a gun range? There are typically lounges and gazebos where community members can safely congregate, however there is an inherent difference between that and, say, a golf range.
For locations for training, I personally consider the entire area ineligible. I say that as somebody who frequently uses these facilities.
On such ranges, safety is of paramount concern. Anywhere within range typically has signs and fences to prevent anyone beginning being being in jeopardy. There are clubhouses and member lounges available to safely congregate.
However, I wouldn't consider the facility at large safety accessible, especially for a phone platform AR game. I think it's a little different than a golf course or similar location, based on the inherent difference in safety associated with such places.
I have a differing opinion. It doesn't matter whether minors are allowed in or not. Bars and pubs are acceptable.
Acceptable if they meet criteria, otherwise they're just a generic business.
I do agree that for safety reasons, things in s h o o t I n g ranges would not be wise submissions and its probably just controversial in genera. I guess my sticking point is that it was listed under "adult oriented " which didn't make sense to me. They probably just lacked a better category to put them in.
Able to be accepted, yes. That post was in limbo because of the attachment. There might be another soon.
Good grief, sorry about duplicate posts up in here, only one of them ever said "pending approval" and I couldn't figure out why any of them needed reviewed. What a lovely forum this is.
But what makes them stand out from other bars? What makes that particular local bar in Town X stand out from 4 other bars in Town X?
The entire point of the "generic local business" clause in Potentially Confusing Nominations is to discourage people from using the "it exists, therefore it's eligible" logic when it comes to specific types of businesses. But that is exactly what Dice/Gabriel wants us to adopt for bars and pubs.