Ich bin sauer!

Ich nehme mir für jede Beurteilung mind. 3 Minuten Zeit (Prüfung des korrekten Ortes etc.) und meine eigenen Vorschläge werden offenbar einfach "durchgeklickt", nach dem Motto "Hauptsache erledigt".

Ich habe ein beliebtes Restaurant eingereicht, das mir abgelehnt wurde weil es a) als Spielort nicht angemessen erscheint (ein guter Treffpunkt ist nicht angemessen?), b) anstößige und unangemessene Aktivitäten stattfinden (in einem Restaurant?) und c) das Foto ein erkennbares Gesicht zu enthalten scheint (auf dem Foto ist kein Gesicht).

Wenn ich mir schon die Arbeit mache, vernünftige Wayspots einzureichen, dann erwarte ich auch eine vernünftige Bewertung und kein das-lehne-ich-ab-weil-das-schneller-geht! Am meisten ärgert mich, dass für solch schwachsinnige Bewertungen ein Upgrade draufgeht. Ich bin stocksauer!

Comments

  • LukeAllStars-INGLukeAllStars-ING Posts: 4,625 Ambassador

    Restaurants sind seeeeeehr stark auf die subjektive Meinung "Ist das denn ein besonderes Restaurant oder nur irgendne 0815 Bude?" aufgebaut. Es heißt nur, dass das Restaurant nen guter Treffpunkt seien soll, das kann jedes Restaurant (theoretisch auch McDonalds, etc) sein. Normalerweise haben historisch relevante Restaurants eher eine Chance. Ich selbst habe aber nie Restaurants eingereicht weil "dAs iSt jA niX bEsoNdEreS iN HamBuRg!!", daher kann ich dir nix super genaues sagen.

  • Tufkas-PGOTufkas-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭

    Vielen Dank für den Kommentar. Dann werde ich - wenn ich das Restaurant wieder einreiche - wohl ergänzen müssen, dass es sich bei uns im Dorf um das einzige italienische Restaurant handelt.

    Die unverständlichen Ablehnungsgründe bleiben ärgerlich. Das hinterlässt bei dem Einreichenden den Eindruck, dass sich niemand wirklich Mühe macht.

  • Tufkas-PGOTufkas-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭

    Und da bin ich wieder... kann es sein, dass einige der werten Bewerter alles im ländlichen Bereich mit der Begründung "privates Gelände oder Bauernhof" ablehnen? Ich bewerte wohlwollend jedes 08/15- Ornament an langweiligen Stadthäusern und bei uns wird ein Veranstaltungssaal der Pfarrgemeinde abgelehnt, weil es sich auf einem Bauernhof befindet?!? Habt ihr Stadtmäuse überhaupt eine Ahnung, was ein Bauernhof ist? Anderes Beispiel: Ein Wandgemälde befindet sich naturgemäß an einer Wand und diese Wand ist selten mitten auf einem Spazierweg zu finden. Wenn diese Wand aber 3 Meter von der Grundstücksgrenze entfernt liegt und der Vorschlag wegen "privates Gelände" abgelehnt wird, platzt mir der Kragen! Auf dem Land gibt es Einzelhäuser - ja ihr Stadtmäuse... Einzelhäuser (kann man auch googeln)! Und Einzelhäuser befinden sich immer auf einem privaten Grundstück! Also bleiben uns Landmäusen nur Wegkreuze... die gehen bei euch wenigstens als optisch einzigartig durch.

    Ich würde mich freuen, wenn wenigstens einer von euch zwischen all seinen Graffiti und Verteilerkästen zwischendurch Zeit findet um beim Bewerten das Hirn einzuschalten - vielen Dank!

  • Tufkas-PGOTufkas-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭

    JETZT REICHTS!!!

    Vorschlag wurde abgelehnt weil Titel oder Beschreibung eine URL enthält! Weder im Titel noch in der Beschreibung war eine URL!!!

    In den zusätzlichen Informationen war eine URL, damit sich der Bewerter ein besseres Bild machen kann. Aber klar... schnell ablehnen, bloß nicht das Hirn einschalten oder mehr als 10 Sekunden in eine Bewertung investieren!!!

    Dieser Thread wird länger und länger - ab sofort poste ich hier jede schwachsinnige Ablehnung.

  • Maxyme99-PGOMaxyme99-PGO Posts: 954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    First of all, please calm down, there's almost zero chance for you to find here anyone who was revieving your nominations - there is so much players that do it, and most aren't on this forum.

    Second, post your nomination here (one or all, I'm not sure from your posts if you got rejected one thing twice or you had more nominations rejected, I use translator to translate your text and it can be confusing.). Please post your full nomination (with pictures and all text). Only seeing it we can know why it was rejected and can help you in any way. I understand that most reasons you get might be false reason for rejection, but seeing your nomination would help us understand your point of view and how reviewers see it too.

    And third, I'm not from Germany but I often get German nominations to review and I know that your country doesn't allow streetview almost anywhere, so it can be hard to check some things if it's hard to see them on normal map view. It can be the case for murals but for restaurant too if it's quite new. I don't know if you can do photosphere (if it will be allowed on map if normal streetview isn't), so try to do the best support photo you can do - with things in background that can be recognizable on map without using streetview, it could help too.

    I also live in rather rural area and I know how hard it can be to find anything than can be accepted, but don't be discouraged, if it's good nomination, it finally will be accepted, it sometimes take more than one try. Post your nominations and we'll try to help you if they can be improved.

  • Tufkas-PGOTufkas-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭

    Hello Maxyme, thank you for your response. Please excuse my bad English, I will do my best to translate all text relating to the above mentioned nominations.

    Title: shamangarden – tree nursery “swan-country” (that’s the text on the company-sign in the picture)

    Description: You can borrow your cristmas-tree in the tree nursery “swan-country”

    Additional info: Local company since 1974 which received supraregional reputation because of their concept of “sustainable christmas-trees”. Here you can borrow your tree in a pot.

    The added URL leads to a clip which was broadcasted on german tv. In this clip the concept of the “sustainable christmas-tree” is explained. In my understanding this wayspot is – although it is local – a supraregional hotspot.

    Please don’t get me wrong, i’m not mad about the rejection of this nomination. I am frustrated because of the reason… this nomination was rejected because of “an URL in title or description”.

  • Tufkas-PGOTufkas-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭

    Next nomination:

    Title: Martinstadl (that’s the name of the building)

    Description: venue of the parish “St. Martin” – also home to the youth meeting club “Teestüberl”

    Additional info: Choir rehearsals and concerts, bazaars, lecture series etc. – a meeting point for all generations. Please take a look at www.st-martin-zorneding.de (the actual Martinstadl is located in the back of the building, that’s why I located the marker there. Only the management is located in the entrance-area.

    Reason for rejection: private property or agricultural company.

    This is a public place - I can’t think of a place, which is more public than this.

  • Tufkas-PGOTufkas-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭

    Last one:

    Title: Façade art

    Description: colorful façade

    Additional info: The master painter who lifes here beautified his own façade. Secure to reach, footpath in front of and besides the house.

    Reason for rejection: private property and picture has low quality (which is ridiculous)

    In my understanding every façade art is on a private property. This is a beautiful wayspot – what can I do to get it into the niantic-games?

  • Aeryle88-PGOAeryle88-PGO Posts: 440 ✭✭✭

    The first one, i don't really understand what it is. But it seems to be related on christmas tree, so is it seasonnal?

    The second one is fine for me, but difficult to evalue because the photo is just a house.

    The third one is in private propriety so it can be a wayspot.

  • Tufkas-PGOTufkas-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭

    I'm not complaining about my nominations not being accepted (although i still think they should be accepted) - i'm talking about the stupid reasons.

    First: URL in title or description - there is no URL in title and description!

    Second: private property or agricultural company - it's a venue of a parish, what could be more open to public?

    Third: low quality picture - ridiculous!

    The main question is, what can the community do to review the reviewers? In the nominations above it's obvious, that some (or most?) of the reviewers really don't care. Their goal is to get through this as fast as possible in order to upgrade their own nominations. In my opinion that is poor thinking and it's not how this community should work together.

  • Maxyme99-PGOMaxyme99-PGO Posts: 954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hi Tufkas!

    Thank you for posting your nominations and translate your descriptions, it really helps us here :)

    I don't know why, but your photos uploaded here are really small (at least for me, maybe it's forum fault, I don't know), but I see something on them so I'll try to help as much a I can.

    From what I see, I must agree with Aeryle88 that most of them won't be accepted or would be really hard to accept.

    First one, I'm also a bit confused with what it is, is it private nursery for trees than normally sell trees but also allow to borrow christmas trees on holidays? Does it also plant these trees somewhere, or it's more like a shop that only sell/rent things?

    If you get only one rejection for it and it was “an URL in title or description” then it's definetly weird, that means everyone choose this rejection reasons, it would means that people who looked at it don't really know how to review or were really lazy to choose more accurate rejection reasons. But as you said yourself, for this one you can't be really mad as business aren't accepted for nominations, they signs too aren't really eligible. The most chance for buisness being accepted is if they're restaurants or if you nominate mural/fountain/sculpture that's on buisness. Other things would rather be rejected. If it's that famous as you metioned and it's not only selling trees, then maybe it would have some chance, but not much.

    Second one: I think this one have the most chance of being accepted. Pictures are too small for this so I can't see buildings well, but does it have any nameplate that you could show on one of the pictures to prove for reviewers that it isn't just private house? It would help for sure. It looks similiar to private house so if someone won't be sure it's not a house, they will reject it as one. I had similiar problem with a restaurant that looked like a house, it was the only one in my small village, but it finally was accepted after a few nominations and a lot of photos that show it's not a private house - you might need some more work with it, but it should be accepted.

    I'm not sure if mentioning it's a club for youth (children) is helpful here, you can get it rejected for K-12 (school or other facility for children). Maybe you won't get a rejection like that, but there's a chance.

    Also I checked website you added to support information, I don't understand it much as I don't know German (translation help a bit but I can't search much on this site), but is there a place on this website that has a picture of your building? Like some mentions of when venue of the parish is open and this page has a name of this building or/and picture of it? If there is a page like that, post a link exactly to this page on website, for example post http://www.st-martin-zorneding.de/?Erwachsene rather than just http://www.st-martin-zorneding.de/ - if people don't need to search for your building on site, you would have bigger chance of it being accepted (and I don't know what first link talking about, it's just example :D).

    You might also mention in supproting description it's not a private house, and post example why, for example: "It's not a private house, you can clearly see it's a venue of the parish, it has a plaque with a name of parish and special entrance for worshippers" (it's just an example, I think you'll think about something better :) ).

    Third one: As Aeryle88 said, it's on private house of painter, you even mentioned it in descrpition. Anything that it's on single family house, in it's garden or on fence will be considered private property and will be rejected, no matter how amazing nomination it would be. Thats the case here and every time you would nominate it it would be rejected as private property.

    You would have only a chance of it being accepted if it was on multi-family house, but then you must prove it's not a single family house on pictures, for example: you can see that house has more than one entry for flat and mailboxes, it can have more number adress on wall (like number 81a, 81b, 81c, every flat would have they own address). But looking at your pictures it looks like single family house, so it won't be accepted.

    Also, if you don't live in a place where you have to wait long time for getting your nominations reviewed, I wouldn't upgrade them. You will have more chance with Martinstadl if it won't be upgraded, because it will be reviewed mostly by local players (as for local, it means most Germans or people living only about 100 km from you, that might known your village/city). When you upgrade things they will be sended to much more reviewers, from far away places and from nearby countries too. You will get response faster but if it's a nomination that mostly locals would understand it, you will have bigger chance of it being rejected. So, if you recieve response in 1-2 month since nomanting (or faster) when you don't upgrade your nominations, then don't upgrade it. If you need to upgrade nominations because you will wait for half a year or longer to get any answers from them, then you don't have a choice and you must upgrade them, but for things like Martinstadl you must make really good photos and descriptions so people from far away will understand what it is and don't reject it.

    Maybe you have some other things you can nominate that still aren't in the game? The best safe things in rural areas to nominate are playgrounds (if not on private house garden or school), crosses or chapels (if not on private house garden/fence, I saw a lot like that), churches, sports fields, outdoor gyms or information boards (might be about animals or plants, village/city history, it can be a map of your village/city, and some local bulletin board can also be accepted). If you also have any sculpture, hand pump or mural that's not on single family private house, it would be great nomination too!

    I'm sorry if you know most of thing I wrote here, I wanted to be sure you know everything that could help your nominations :)

    I hope you will get some nominations accepted soon, I think Martinstadl will be finally accepted :)

  • Tufkas-PGOTufkas-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭

    Hi Maxyme,

    no worry, this is the last one...

    I can only repeat what i mentioned above - i don't complain about my nominations not being accepted.

    I am complaining about the reviewers who did a terrible job. I really hope some day Niantic will find a way to end this - some kind of tool to "review the reviewers".

    Thank you very much for taking so much time, i really appreciate it.

  • Maxyme99-PGOMaxyme99-PGO Posts: 954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, I can understand what you mean. I think Niantic did mention some plans to change wayfarer but I don't know if we really will get anything regarding bad reviewers soon. I hope there will be some changes to it and we won't need to renominate good things that were rejected by bad reviewers, people rejecting nominations only because they want to rejecet everything should be punished too.

    I wish you will have some nice nominations accepted soon, and that review system will be much better :)

  • Aeryle88-PGOAeryle88-PGO Posts: 440 ✭✭✭

    I agree with you, there is a problem with bad reviewers and bad rejections they create.

    I hope Niantic will do something... and they can do many things:

    -Rework the nomination process and the reviewing process. I nomination process, ask the nominator to class the nomination in one eligible category. In the reviewing process, remplace the questions "Is it a good wayspot?, Unique? and Historical/cultural?" by "is this nomination is really a [name of the eligible category choosen by the nominator]?" This would avoir many false rejections.

    -Create a system to allow us to make an appel of bad rejection. But in this case, the appel process should be check by Niantic to avoir a second bad rejection...

  • HannesTheHammer-PGOHannesTheHammer-PGO Posts: 97 ✭✭✭

    Honestly speaking, you're focusing way too much on being a victim and are not really open to constructive criticism. So what, if you received a 'wrong' rejection reason? You are reviewing yourself, so you should be aware that your reviewers don't have a precise tool to give you feedback- wayfairer is a sledgehammer and not a scalpel. Instead of being angry, it might be better to take a step back, try to find out what could be meant, and put yourself into your reviewers' shoes.

    Example 1: In my opinion, a great location, and I would resubmit it. Why did you get the rejection reason 'farm'? Look at your title. It just says Martinstadl --> Martin BARN. I guess that's when people stopped reading and rejected it. Why aren't you changing your title to sth like 'Pfarrheim Martinstadl'? You need to guide your reviewers.

    Example 2: Well, it is a business. I kinda like it, but you presented it poorly. The interesting part is in the supplemental info and perhaps tell what this youtube clip is about.

    Example 3: Obviously, private property.

  • Tufkas-PGOTufkas-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited March 2021

    Thank you for the wise advice. I took a step back, searched for the best wayspot i can think of and submitted our "Pfarrhaus" (parish house) which was build in 1802 and therefore has a landmark status. I even added the number under which is it listed at the state office for the preservation of historical monuments. So our parish house is a place to meet and a place to discover.

    The nomination got rejected because of "private property or agricultural company".

    Submitting nominations is a complete waste of time!

  • HannesTheHammer-PGOHannesTheHammer-PGO Posts: 97 ✭✭✭

    Alter Schwede, willst du ueberhaupt verstehen, warum etwas nicht funktioniert? Warum wiederholst du den Ablehnungsgrund? Ich habe das schon beim 1. Mal verstanden und dir meine Sichtweise erklaert.Dein Titel hat anscheinend zu einem Missverstaendnis gefuehrt. Ein Stadl gehoert zu einem Bauernhof. Anscheinend haben ein paar Leute nicht verstanden, was du meinst. Aendere den Titel und du kannst zumindest das aufklaeren.

  • Maxyme99-PGOMaxyme99-PGO Posts: 954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I translated what HannesTheHammer-PGO just wrote, and it cleared a bit this quoted post as it was confusing to me. But I would still wants your answer for my question I posts here:

    Do you again posted rejection reason from your last rejection or you just nominate new thing after our discussion and it was rejected again?

    If it's still rejection from nominations made before our talk, the don't be discouraged and try again using advices we gave you. If it's so ancient building, it for sure have big chances to become accepted, but people must see that's it's good nomination on the pictures and descrption, especially if you don't have streetview. Nice nominations will be accepted after some try. Sometimes it's harder to do, but it's not impossible :)

    But if you just nominated new thing and it was rejected so fast, then that means you againg upgraded it (it's the only explanation for it to be reviewed so fast). Don't do that for now. As I explained it earlier, upgrading it will make it worse, as it will be reviewed by more people from very far places (and also from other nearby countries), so it will be harder to accept if you don't have streetview and it's more like a local thing nominated. You didn't post if you live in a place where nominations must be upgraded or they won't go to voting for months, but if your place is a rural place, you shouldn't had it that hard with waiting. Try nominate things and don't upgrade it, it will take some more time, but you will have more chance of it being accepted. I would prefer to wait a month and have 50% chance of it being accepted rather than upgrade it and wait 2 days to get 80% chance for it to be rejected because people don't know your local place and might don't understand your nomination so they reject it.

    I know there is many reviewers that give wrong rejection reasons or reject eligible nominations with false accustations, I also hope something will change about it soon, but until something like that happens, we need to do everything we can so our nomination willl get accepted despite bad actions from some reviewers.

    Viel Glück, ich hoffe alles wird bald besser :)

  • Tufkas-PGOTufkas-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited March 2021

    Lieber Hannes, für Dich nochmal in Deutsch: Ich habe mich NICHT erneut auf das Martinstadl bezogen, sondern das denkmalgeschützte Pfarrhaus (ein anderes Gebäude) NEU eingereicht, das leider mit dem gleichen schwachsinnigen Grund abgelehnt wurde.

    Ich werde mich an Maxymes Ratschlag halten und nichts mehr upgraden - vielleicht hilft das tatsächlich.

    Euch allen vielen Dank für eure Rückmeldungen und dafür, dass ihr euch überhaupt mit einem "Grantler" wie mir auseinander gesetzt habt.

  • InitiateBadTime-PGOInitiateBadTime-PGO Posts: 10 ✭✭
    edited March 2021

    Wayfarer in a nutshell

  • Rodensteiner-PGORodensteiner-PGO Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    an sich könnt ihr eigentlich immer hier eure fragen stellen, ja, es werden immer noch viele dinge mit seltsamen begründungen abgelehnt. ja, es ist zum haareraufen.

    letztendlich ändert es aber auch nichts, dass ich die beispiele 1 und 3 hier nicht akzeptiert hätte, und ich mir bei beispiel 2 ein anderes foto gewünscht hätte. ich kenne die location nicht, und kann auch anhand der fotos nicht so viel erkennen.

    du hast an sich so schöne fotos gemacht an einem tollen tag, und irgendwie war aber auch das zweite foto und die beschreibung für mich so, das ich sie wohl niedrig bewertet hätte.

    und auch nochmal von mir die bestätigung, dass unter den aktuellen bedingungen keine upgrades für sachen verwendet werden sollten, wo man nicht so ganz sicher ist, ob sie durchgehen.

    es kann sich auch jeder persönlich gerne an mich wenden, und mich vorher fragen, wie man was betiteln sollte und was man von der örtlichkeit fotografieren sollte und was nicht. es wäre generell besser wenn man nicht vor Ort einreicht und das über die App später macht. Das geht aber in der Pgo App nicht, Ingress hat das aber.

    Der "Rant" hier ist im Grunde genommen leider für die meisten Wayfarer nachvollziehbar. Aktuell können wir hier aber auch nicht so viel machen, da Niantic so einsichtig ist wie ein Scheunentor.

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