Road to Discovery - A Discussion

Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭✭✭

An insightful new post made its way to the Wayforum news today!

https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/14137/road-to-rediscovery

I'm always excited to see updates coming to the Criteria page and hope that it can continue to be a "one stop shop" of clarifications without still having to reference outdated (or new) AMAs and understanding where Niantic may have decided that, despite superseding AMAs and forum clarifications, definitions may not have changed.

I was hopeful to see two more things pushed to the announcement: improved ways of reporting abuse and improved ways to make modifications to existing Wayspots.

What is everyone else's thoughts on this?

Comments

  • GearGlider-INGGearGlider-ING Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6

    The comment about boosting reviews to dry areas has me, hesitant? Dunno how to describe it.

    It feels very rare that we get local things to review already, which is the main drive for me as a reviewer. Like, I have to go through hundreds of reviews before I get something in my local county or surrounding counties.

    Most of the post looks great though. I'm glad there's an official acknowledgement about trying to improve the submitting experience for PoGO players who can't see every wayspot. And I'm excited the wayfarer team is getting larger, with more staff for the forum on hand.

    I hope they do more social media outreach on other platforms though, most people engage with Niantic communities through Facebook, Reddit, Discord, Youtube, etc.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Showcase updates: I've not been all that impressed with the showcase, personally. Most of what appears there is rather mundane and common things that meet the criteria (ex. Churches, playgrounds, picnic shelters at parks), but aren't things that are exceptionally interesting. While it is good to see that some curated objects will appear, I think the entire showcase should be removed if its contents cannot be 100% curated.

    Minor updates to the Criteria page: This can be a double-edged sword. For starts, I like to see Niantic interact more with criteria questions on the forums. But most of the time, all we here is silence. But at the same time, I've seen many individuals take whatever Niantic says and stretch it well beyond reason to declare something as either eligible or ineligible. Cases in point, people are still using the previous AMA (now superseded) answer about footbridges on marked trails to claim that all footbridges as eligible and must be approved under Update 3.1.

    Improvements to the submission experience: I'm hoping this means that nominations will be spun out into its own app. I find far too many Pokemon GO nominators have a myopic view where they only view nominations through the prism of Pokemon GO. It's not really their fault, but the nomination process doesn't do anything to enlighten these nominators that they are contributing to a larger database of POIs used by multiple games. That is why I think that a separate app will help these nominators see that there is a "larger picture" beyond just Pokemon GO.

    Improvements to the review experience: I personally like to see the current review process scrapped and the entire thing rebuilt around the new criteria. First would be rating a nomination against each of the three eligibility criteria using the traditional 5-star system. Then followed up with answering yes or no for each of the acceptance and rejection criteria. No more reviewers selecting random rejection reasons. This also rolls into the last point of better notifications as it can be used as a bases to give nominators a more detailed/accurate explanations as to why their nomination was rejected.

  • LukeAllStars-INGLukeAllStars-ING Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Im missing the aspect of changes to actions against wayfarer abuse. Though there will be an update soon on this topic.

  • rodensteiner-INGrodensteiner-ING Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    TBH this is a big step. Finding out that you dont have the team to do such a task and rebuild a team is a big step.

  • pkmnsearch2-PGOpkmnsearch2-PGO Posts: 249 ✭✭✭

    Why focus only on "improve abuse report" part?

    I, on the other hand, clap that they acknowledge the problema duplicates/pokemon go.

    I clap that their team is expading.

    I clap that they make the CRITERIA section, the ONLY page that matters. However they could move the AMA in HELP section to a sub-section in the CRITERIA page, maybe name it AMA?

    I am eager to see how it will reflect on submitters and reviewers.

  • rodensteiner-INGrodensteiner-ING Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WandHerring-PGO that is my overall feeling, too. Alot of fluff, but not a sunday roast.

  • SiIverLyra-PGOSiIverLyra-PGO Posts: 568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it's possible to both appreciate the many improvements promised in Casey's post, and criticize the lack of direct reference to abuse.

    A lot of the recent criticism to Niantic's flawed communication with the community was due to their handling of abuse and abusers, specifically here on the forum. While the "addressing emerging issues" part of Casey's post seems to be referring to that, it's a bit unfortunate that it wasn't said in a more direct fashion. Seems a bit like avoiding/ignoring the elephant in the room.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had posted a rather lengthy response to this, but I see that it hasn't shown up yet. I was pretty sure it should have gotten through moderation by now.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I posted a comment Friday morning that took until well in the evening for approval. ~12 hours isn't rare, but uncommon for a weekday.

    Pretty much this. I'm excited, but I'm easily excited. There's been tons of empty promises from one-off comments from Casey & the gang, some of which have simply been deleted from the Wayforum during the purge(s) earlier this year. Promises of better abuse action, improvements to the edit process, more clear guidelines (nevermind let's just delete them!), and improvements to the submission experience for PoGO users.

    These news updates and release notes as of the last few months are slightly more encouraging but still left vague enough to mean they can do the bare minimum and still pat themselves on the back for a job well done for "fixing" something that has been broken for years. Am I excited to see what comes next? Yes, absolutely. Am I nervous we'll be at least partly let down or it'll just open new requests to fix what their release broke? Also, absolutely.

  • Vorxnyx-PGOVorxnyx-PGO Posts: 11 ✭✭

    "Boosting reviews in dry voting areas"

    OK, well, fantastic, but the "dry voting areas" are now "anywhere with a significant population." As someone who lives in an urban area surrounded by rural area for several hours (i.e. most of America) I now essentially never get to review anything in my community, and whenever someone in a small rural community creates a stop for their street sign it gets pushed to the top of my stack. That doesn't bother me in and of myself - there's bad nominations no matter where you look - but it does bother me that there's so little opportunity to improve the community that myself and so many others live in. It wouldn't surprise me if many reviewers have stopped reviewing for this specific reason.

  • Eneeoh-PGOEneeoh-PGO Posts: 461 ✭✭✭✭

    Fair criticism. Are you not allowed to nominate Wayspots in your area, do they simply take too long to be voted on, or are they being rejected unfairly?

    Wayfarers who perform well as reviewers should perhaps be permitted to nominate at a lower level.

    Niantic needs to figure out and address these systemic problems, not just pay lip service.

  • tehstone-INGtehstone-ING Posts: 273 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AFAIK no areas are barred from nominating. But when it takes 9 months or a year or more to get replies it's very frustrating. And it just further bogs down the system as there is a higher likelihood of duplicates being submitted. This is the problem the system had before OPR/Wayfarer was created and it's certainly cropping up again.

  • Eneeoh-PGOEneeoh-PGO Posts: 461 ✭✭✭✭

    @tehstone-ING no areas are barred, but some players are not permitted to make nominations. They can still review others’ work, however.

    @Vorxnyx-PGO complains that there is little opportunity to improve the local high-population zone due to rural skewing. This made me wonder if they were not able to make these improvements themselves. Maybe Niantic needs to lower the level requirements further for Wayfarers who demonstrate their knowledge and dedication .

  • Kellerrys-INGKellerrys-ING Posts: 577 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Eneeoh-PGO

    https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/wayfarer/?p=web&s=about-niantic-wayfarer&f=how-can-i-access-niantic-wayfarer&l=en

    Required Ingress level for both nominating and reviewing, 10.

    Required Pogo level for both nominating and reviewing, 38.

    Upgrades are (in practice) the only way to get decisions on one's own nominations in many areas.

  • rodensteiner-INGrodensteiner-ING Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is an isanity to submit something in a rural area, as i live, because the things just dont get completed in review. That isnt because of the scarcity of reviewers in this rural area, it is because niantic designed it, that once your S2lvl9 Cel has "enough" POI, it gets shelved.

    People always assume that their submissions dont get resolved because of there is a lack of reviewer in their area. that is not true. also there are no gangs that review each others submissions.

    You only have a chance that your submission is reviewed and processed in 14 days to 4 weeks if you live in a S2-lvl cell that does not have much wayspots.

    Niantic has to have a change of heart and talk to people about this things instead of making them a mystery. This shenenigans only leads to people getting fed up with this. they take their ball and go home.

  • Daemare-PGODaemare-PGO Posts: 46 ✭✭✭

    Yeah this is something I've noticed too. I started down in Columbus, GA. A city, not a huge one, but a city. Turn around time for submissions was about 2 weeks. I moved up to the DC area for a few months and I still have submissions from mid-December in there. I honestly wish there was a way to gauge how close they are on a decision being reached at least.

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