Insufficient evidence that the nomination accurately reflects ...
AhGddvc-ING
Posts: 44 ✭✭
Wondering if I'm missing something, the following wayspot has been rejected numerous times for "Insufficient evidence that the nomination accurately reflects the submitted real-world location based on comparison of the submitted photo and map views, Nomination does not appear to be permanent or appears to be a seasonal display that is only put up during certain times of the year."
The Itchen Way - Kiln Lane Bridge Crossing
Description
The Itchen Way is a 30-mile walk, following the River Itchen from its source to its confluence with Southampton Water.
Supplemental Information
From the September AMA named trail markers should be accepted. As this is where the Itchen way crosses the road there is plenty of safe pedestrian access along the footpath (can be seen on streetview, though not very clear). The footpath can be confirmed using an ordinance survey map, or OSM (https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.999554&mlon=-1.334932#map=19/50.99950/-1.33495)
google maps:
from streetview:
OS:
Comments
For me it's ok, but too many people systematicly rejet trail markers, so it's difficult to make them accepted.
I had that, valid trail marker but the pin was in a **** not near the path and there was no sign of that hand rail anywhere.
The SV picture you have shown is not what I and other reviewers saw, so had no choice but to 1*
Really B U S H is an censored word, @NianticCasey-ING can we not have something done about the ridiculous word censor on the forums, the forum rules themselves are still censored and its been well over a year
Isn't the advice to 3* when you think it could be there but can't find it (such as under shrub or tree cover) and 1* when it is definitely not there?
To me it looks good overall submission, and I'd be 3*ing if I couldn't find it during review because trail markers like that are official ones but often hard to spot on blurry street view, so if it looks reasonable that it could be there I vote 3 on location
I am hoping shrub is a safe word to use.... ;) I don't enjoy having to edit when I find I've inadvertently set off a bad word flag.
The trail marker is on a post next to the path.
The location pin wasn't anywhere near the edge of the path, it was off by a good 5 / 10 meters away from the path in a b u s h.
There was no way of telling if it was even the correct road as there handrail wasnt visable.
You can 3* if you believe its there using visual clues, but there were none to even determine the location was even vaguely correct.
You know you can move around in streetview (well up and down the road) to view the pin from a different angle, it sometimes helps :)
Funny enough yes i do know this, and funny enough I did this. This was not my first rodeo.
Unfortunately for your submission it was still impossible to see or confirm any visual markers.
Most of mine go through first or second time (mostly long distance paths), easy enough to resubmit as an ingress player. I pity the PoGo players since Android 11 as I gather they have to go back to the location to resubmit since the app needs to take a new pic, which seems a little unfair.
I will say this from the point of view of someone from another country: This doesn't look permament on first photo. I'm not sure how trail markers looks in your location, but this one I see on main photo looks like homemade sticker pinned with pins to this wooden post. From your support photo I can see that on this place you have more realistic-looking trail marker (the round orange one), why don't you make a photo that will show the round one (or both of them)? It should help with "not permament" rejection.
And as others mentioned, if you mismatched location and it didn't show for reviewers where it is, it will be rejected for "mismatched location" or "can't found it in this location" like you got. You must be very careful when you place location for this place on map, to be sure that reviewers will get streetview on this trail marker location. It's very hard to see on streetview because of all these trees and b u s h e s (stretched because it's censored word on this forum 😒), they hide it from view. And it's even worse for map view, it's completely covered by trees. So you must be sure that reviewers will see it on streetview while reviewing.
This is an official looking marker to me, its from my country. There are lots of different trail markers used (every town/trail can use a different kind) but this doesn't look fake at all to me.
Also in this country, street view rarely captures trail markers unless they're crossing roads, so often you're not able to verify location using street view. Some have photospheres, and some are even visible on satellite if you zoom right in!
I don't reject trail markers for location if I just can't see them on street view, because otherwise I'd reject 95% of them when I'm sure that less than 1% are actually fake. If it looks reasonable then I am happy to give the benefit of the doubt. I know I am potentially losing agreements by doing so but I feel quite strongly that trail markers are nice waypoints, as I enjoy walking, biking and running while playing these games and I love using trails and enjoying nature as part of that, so I understand why other people would want the same thing as me for their areas.
The trail marker shown is part of https://ldwa.org.uk/ldp/members/show_path.php?path_name=Itchen+Way and on the Ordinance Survey maps (UK official maps) The orange trail marker though a named trail is a local loop, very nice walk still if anyone is in the area.
Please remember that streetview is only approximately correct location wise as the GPS data is being read on the fly by a moving vehicle, position corrected based on some algorithms and googles mapping data. If you look at the google satellite map for that location, you will note that the road in google maps doesn't match up with the road in the satellite image. As you can no doubt imagine this then offsets where the pin appears to be in streetview. As you can see below although the pin is accurate (the coords were taken on top of the post with a "proper" GPS left to settle) it will be offset by streetview, and appear to be a couple of metres behind where it actually is.
I'm not saying it's fake trail marker, but on such photo it doesn't look permament and looks like a sticker. Better angle on photo would make it look more real for sure, showing second trail marker that is on the same side would help too. This trail marker we see on main photo is very weird, because it doesn't fit in one side of wooden post and has to be bended, just like a sticker. Because of that it could get "not permament" rejection.
And this nomination is visible on streetview, but it's important to put location pin in correct place, because it's near a small bridge on river and near it is a lot of trees. Some meters away on location and reviewers will see only trees or river and for sure reject it for mismatched location.
As Theisman-ING wrote, he got this nomination and couldn't find it even when he moved on streetview, so reviewers got really bad view on this thanks to bad location of pin. I didn't mentioned anywhere that I reject trail markers when I can't see them, but in this case reviewers did reject it, so the best thing to improve it is making good photos and adding location in correct place, so reviewers will accept it :)
I'm not trying to argue with you about it location, I mentioned it because other people that posted here wrote they got this nomination to review and pin wasn't in place you got us in link but was mismatched a few meters away and because of that it was impossible to find it.
I looked at your link and I had hard time to find it on streetview, especially because your trail marker on photo isn't visible in streetview, it's much easier to see the orange one. Because of that I mentioned it would be good to take photo with both trail markers visible or with just orange one. But as you mentioned orange trail marker is more local, so the best is to make photo with both of them.
Maybe try making support photo from the bridge side, so people could match it with streetview more?
We're only trying to help you here by saying why it might have been rejected and how to fix it. Without some improvement it might be really hard to get it accepted, as it's in very hidden place and it's hard to find it.
I'm of a similar mind set, if the photos match the location, and OS maps back up the route then I generally give the benefit of the doubt. Those that are fake, or in the wrong place should get removed when another player reports them as not there, so they will be transitory at worst.
What would be nice is if the location info from the nomination, and the supporting image we shown on the map with the nomination. Won't prove anything, but will help validate what you are looking at on the maps.
The main problem is we get only 7 nominations per 14 days in pogo.
I have a list of more than 100 potential POI in my village. Only get 14 of them for now (and 7 waiting for vote). Every time a trail marker is rejected, it's a nomination who will have to wait 14 days more...
It does seem like PoGo players get the short end of the stick with regard to waypoint nomination.
It's better than nothing, but i think it would be great if we can do more nominations...
The reason why its lower than what ingress has is more than likely to do with the large player base. Pokemon go by far has way more players that submit than ingress. As you can tell by the slow speed at which nominations go through it creates a massive backlog. I could fore see that sometime in the future once pokemon players reach another milestone level that they may get more nominations. So 7 at 38 and maybe at 45 you get another 7? But this more than likely wont happen for a while
Would be nice we play both :). I think the speed must a location thing (plus a little luck) turn around here is normally very fast, though occasionally something just sits there for a long time. Literally just had one accepted I subbed on the 21st, another rejected I subbed a few minutes after (forgot to add the text when I got home lol).
It is very difficult to make a pokestop proposal because it depends on subjective evaluations that users believe and say that the proposals are temporary. There are pokestop that are trees and those also knock down ...
That's won't change anything. Having to wait just delay the moment where everything that can be a POI will be effectively proposed.
That's also delay the moment we can make nominations on area without any stop (because the priority is where we live) and some potential POI will simply be ignored. (for example, when i see something interessant for being a POI, if i don't have any nomination avalaible (witch is never the case because i use the 7 nominations every 15days for the hudge amont of potential POI there is just in my village, and it will took me an other 5 or 6 months... if there is no false rejection)... I can't took photo for later. So i just do nothing, and because of that many area won't get any stop before a very long time.
I think Niantic shoud find solutions to make the reviewing process faster...
I get it takes long, i’ve been there and done that. Took me like a year to get everything in my town lol. And if someone else nominates it and it gets accepted great! One less thing I have to do. You get 7 every 14 days. Dont get frustrated just take your time map out which ones are the best ones to submit that will quickly get accepted and use upgrades on those ones :)
That's what i do. ;) The only thing is that i've wait many year before seeing a POI in my village, so i've already make the list since a long time, so it's a little frustrating to have to wait 14 days each time to nominate just a little part of the list. (and event more frustrating when something is rejected without good reason)
That's a little far away from the initial subject, sorry
I too have recently had this refusal and I’m a bit annoyed about it as the area is brand new commercial part of town as developers are looking to make the existing town bigger with introduction of more shops etc. I took a picture of the plaque ( my submission ) and even did a 360 for good measure. I’m a bit annoyed tbh
Not sure why this last photo has been tacked onto an old thread, but a generic "we built this recently and got someone to open it" is something that noramlly scores very low. Generic and not interesting.