Ban for incorrectly reviewing incorrect or inappropriate titles/descriptions, existing Wayspots

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Comments

  • WikiBlue-INGWikiBlue-ING Posts: 73 ✭✭✭

    The submitters are the customers to Niantic... and the reviewers are the co-workers. If a customer makes a mistake the co-worker needs to try and solve it.... But if the co-worker makes a mistake he gets fired or blaimed.

  • beintrafo1160-INGbeintrafo1160-ING Posts: 7 ✭✭

    I can’t remember that i ever chose this “fake portal” option in any case cause it seemed sketchy. So with still absolutely zero concrete examples what i have done wrong, i just have to quit reviewing. Never ever i think about risking my pogo account for this nonsense... it is simply not worth it for me anymore, cause i can never be sure of making no mistakes. Maybe Niantic should employ someone and then ban this guy every time he does a mistake :)

  • Missingn0Xpert-PGOMissingn0Xpert-PGO Posts: 17 ✭✭
    edited May 15

    Schraub Wayfarer, as long as noone is willing to tell us what might be wrong, I no longer am participating. Its not like Im a big loss, though the efforts in keeping a sufficient standard in terms of portals have turned out to be pathetic.

  • rodensteiner-INGrodensteiner-ING Posts: 893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    you are beginning to feel the same? we are already there, since many moons.

  • AScarletSabre-PGOAScarletSabre-PGO Posts: 522 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15

    I'm wondering how many people may actually believe somebody from Niantic reviews all nominations and edits and thus that is the reason why a certain user (or users) edited the Wayspots to something to the effect of "this is a fake". It may indeed be the case that some people really do not realise that other game players actually review nominations. Plenty of players who can nominate Wayspots are not part of a community of players (either by chance or their own choice) and thus may never interact with other players (outside of in-game actions), remembering of course that Pokémon GO does not have an in-game chat.

    The overwhelming majority of people I know who have nominated Wayspots (and requested edits) have never thought to go onto the Wayfarer website (and may not even know it even exists), let alone these forums. If a user's only experience of being a Wayfarer is from within the Niantic game, then I can definitely see why a lot of users may end up being confused and make unintentional mistakes. When a Pokéstop is nominated the information given to that player is rather limited.

    My local community has hundreds of players and yet I can count on one hand the those who regularly nominate Wayspots, and even less people think to review Wayspots (so out of a community of hundreds of players, only one or two regularly review). If somebody is a super casual Wayfarer (like seemingly 99% of users are), I can see why they would make mistakes which regular users of this forum would view as silly. Most people on this forum - I would assume - are very clued on the guidelines so we have a tendency to view things from that lens.

    e.g. we may be wearing red-tinted glasses and not appreciate what somebody who always wears green-tinted glasses sees in the world. Whilst the users who got the bans may well be "in the wrong", there needed to be leniency. I speak to a lot of people about Wayspot nomination and try to inform them about the guidance but genuine ignorance does persist.

    I will reiterate what others have said, in that communication from Niantic really does need a lot of improvement, but until another company rises up to challenge Niantic for a "gamified POI database", Niantic will keep being complacent and taking users for granted. I love Pokémon GO and want it to succeed, however Niantic keeps doing things which annoy myself (and others). It really is tiring.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That doesn't explain why reviewers, who are supposed to be familiar with guidelines, chose the invalid edit. There is a photo example with this exact case in the help section in Wayfarer.

  • AScarletSabre-PGOAScarletSabre-PGO Posts: 522 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From what I can see, the reviewing side of things has been discussed extensively on previous pages. I agree with those who said the guidelines could be a lot more unambiguous and contain a lot more information to help users. I would not have banned the reviewers for using their best judgement, as it was not their intention to be malicious. I would encourage them to make more informed choices in the future and trust it doesn't happen again. Niantic are wrong in this case, as others have said.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Point is reviewers were incorrectly reviewing, a clear example is in the guidelines. We may not agree with their punishment but we can't say its wrong. Maybe they could and should do things differently, but I won't say they are wrong here.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We dont know they wernt getting warnings, cool downs captchas etc. Those are perfect times to review the guidelines. Everyone, including the people in this threat always say "i got a cooldown and i review by the guidelines" but they dont even look at them, if they did they would have known what they did wrong, since their is a clear example of what they did wrong in there. Its always just complaining and not learning what they did wrong. Take these 30 days and review the criteria. Your example of edits is in no way the same as what happened, without evidence its just a judgment call, their mistake was not, it was a choice against criteria.

  • Zappi75-PGOZappi75-PGO Posts: 6 ✭✭

    I never got a warning before. i also never got a cooldown before. I was just hit without warning with this harsh strafe. Yes, I will not continue on wayfarer when my 30 days are over. 


    i don’t think unintentionally doing a wrong choice was the main problem. 


    The main problem is that niantic insinuates that we are intentionally trying to illegally circumvent the evaluation process in a group. But I never did that. I just rated like everyone else. I also don't believe that there is really any evidence, just clues that maybe point to it. maybe i may just have the wrong friends on my friends list, but I cannot know. I don't know 50% of my friends, I only found them through local telegram groups to level EP. We were just sentenced by niantic without giving us a chance to defend ourselves. To be hit so hard right away is a shame. There is a big imbalance here between the punishment in Wayfarer as an addon and the 3 strike politic in the games.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Honestly this is the best response/reaction/feedback i have read so far... everything else has been saying nothing bad was done and blaming Niantic, its fair to want answers and a better system, but not at the cost of saying you didnt nothing wrong or that Niantic is wrong. I think its easier to move on or even get answers when you admit that you did in fact did something wrong instead of just being in denial or playing victim.

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't mean to offend anyone, but when I see situations like this I have to make best guesses about the honesty of the people complaining. Sometimes people are being 100% truthful. Sometimes they are being disingenuous with their statements, pretending that they made an innocent mistaken when in actuality they knew full well what they were doing. My intuition tells me that most or all of the people in this discussion are being truthful in their statements, and that they fell into a trap rather than acting with bad intent.

    There's one question that I really want the answer to: Were the things that the suspended players selected blatantly obvious fakes? I would hope the answer to this question is unequivocal yes, but given the number of players impacted and my assessment above I suspect it isn't.

  • AeriTheBOFH-PGOAeriTheBOFH-PGO Posts: 88 ✭✭✭
    edited May 18

    Reading all this, I feel sorry for the folks who genuinely don't know exactly what they did wrong. At the same time, I'm not surprised - it's pretty much how Niantic rolls. For instance, I got banned in Ingress without a warning or strike of any sort - straight to account termination and appeals only ever met silence or got auto replies. To this day I still have no idea what I did wrong, I was so legit I didn't even use IITC. I can only guess someone reported me because I like going out to remote places, but all Niantic had to do was look at my Wayfarer history to see that 80% of my submissions were trail markers. 😕

    Good luck getting a straight answer.

  • Nadiwereb-PGONadiwereb-PGO Posts: 761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Exactly this. I'm not saying Niantic's reaction is good here. It's not. I think this offense would have been much better addressed by issuing a warning, such a ban is way too harsh in my opinion. Also, the situation could have been handled much better by addressing the question much faster.

    However, I must also say that I feel a lot of people here are also acting in an unreasonable manner.

    It's perfectly clear that Niantic does not want to - and will not - give specifics about the exact nominations in question. That's because such information could be used by actual, deliberate cheaters to gain knowledge about things (review distribution, timelines, etc) they don't want them to know. Cheating is already rampant in Wayfarer and there clearly are groups who have figured out the system and use it for deliberate and blatant abuse (see the St. Cloud situation), Niantic clearly doesn't want to make this information even more accessible. And I agree with their position on this one.

    There is also the repeated claim of "I don't know what I did wrong". @NianticGiffard repeatedly clarified what the issue was. I'm sorry but I have to say that if you read all that properly and still don't understand, you either don't know how edit reviews work or you're deliberately playing d*mb.

    About the "I'm certain I never did anything wrong and i'm innocently punished" crowd: I myself wouldn't sure that I didn't accidentally make a mistake like that, because it happend that you just slip up and stop focusing on reviews. People make mistakes. Also, there is evidence that these particular abusive edits happened months, if not years ago, and I don't even remember what I reviewed yesterday. What I'm trying to say is that I find it disingenuous when people claim with a complete certainty that they never ever made any such error like that. Now, again: I don't agree with the severity of the punishment, I think a warning would have been entirely enough for most reviewers who made this mistake. (And before someone suggests that Niantic is flat out lying and framing innocent people for something they didn't do - I don't see any motive whatsoever to do this, and it seems completely against how Niantic normally operates, so I'm not even considering this option.)

  • Eneeoh-PGOEneeoh-PGO Posts: 417 ✭✭✭✭

    Niantic is attempting to use a million monkeys to create the complete works of Shakespeare. Some of their employees occasionally throw us some carrots, some of them hit us with a stick. They don’t really want to spend much time or effort on us, as we are individually disposable.

    I don’t think Niantic ever explained the edit-evaluation system. They certainly didn’t publish a specification or send an email to Wayfarers explaining how or why they should be done a certain way.

    I don’t doubt there are some bad monkeys out there, but I can understand if some of the reviewers on this forum feel confident that they were not part of a cabal trying to cheat Niantic or game the system, even though they cannot possibly remember each and every goofy title edit that passed before their eyes.

    If Niantic’s forensic tools are of the same caliber as the rest of their resources, who knows how many innocent, marginal, coincidental, or tangential actors may have been caught up in the web?

  • kitanchik-INGkitanchik-ING Posts: 71 ✭✭

    this is getting ridiculous. you ban people for doing something to get your attention. you say do report abuse by the form or in review. ok, im in fear, im trying to do in right way, i fill the abuse from review on May 17 and what i see? i just have lost my upgrade point. the new portal appears today on May 19 with title: Smurfai sportuoja (Smurfs sports) description: Smurfiukai pasistatė mėlyną sporto aikštelę (The Smurfs built a blue sports field)

    how can you ban people if you don't stick to the rules yourself? if your system even cant auto reject the text by such hyped banned words? and should i appeal the portal? let it burn with a blue flame, i dont care.

  • Nadiwereb-PGONadiwereb-PGO Posts: 761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What do you mean you "lost your upgrade point"? Also, I don't really see any banned word there... Is "smurf" a pejorative in Finnish? This title does seem weird but without seeing the nomination itself, it's hard to say anything conclusive.

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 392 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Smurf" can be taken as a game reference to Resistance, the blue Ingress team.

  • Nadiwereb-PGONadiwereb-PGO Posts: 761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh, I see. If the sports field is not actually blue, I'd definitely try to edit the title and description.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭✭✭

    read back please, they told you what you did wrong, and what you should have done.

  • ElRond71-INGElRond71-ING Posts: 9 ✭✭

    Hi everyone,

    I've just received a very similar message of a 30 days suspension:

    "AlvynJune 02, 2021, 06:40 +0000Hello Agent,


    We have confirmed that you had previously tried to influence other reviewers to vote on your nominations in a specific way. As a result of this violation, your Wayfarer account has been suspended for 30 days.


    We recommend you review the Portal Criteria (https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/ingress/?p=web&s=portal-network) before submitting any more nominations or edits and avoid using any unrelated information/codewords in your submissions. Note that any further violations can lead to the permanent suspension of your Wayfarer and your Ingress account.


    Best regards,"

    My surprise receiving this totally unexpected message makes me write this message asking why?

    Any explanation could help me to understand this drastic and unexpected measure that threatens me from contiously reviewing wayfarer and participating in events, such as the recent India event.

    Until any further clarification or explanation I will unwillingly stop my wayfarer activity.

    Thanks in advance for reading and answering to my request if able.

  • Raachermannl-INGRaachermannl-ING Posts: 585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your mail doesn't fit the mail, that lots of people in this thread got. Their mail states, that they reviewed something wrong.

    But I got the same mail like you a few day ago, and I was totally confused about it, too. Although the mail states in the first paragraph, that the nomination would be the problem, Niantic told me in that thread, that supporting edits for other edits are the problem.....

    So maybe you should better check out this thread:

    https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/18055/niantics-support-mess

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