Sandbars - Good submission? How to submit
Oakes1923-PGO
Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭
Two part question. With natural features now allowed, what are folks thoughts on sandbars? I frequent a lake that has a very popular sandbar. Nearly every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, from Mid May through later September the place is packed with boats. Most folks will drop in at the local marina and just anchor here for the day. However you can easily swim over to it from the town beach near by or kayak/canoe over. Not the traditional pedestrian access one would expect.
Here's a link to a video of the area. This is probably a random July weekend on the lake.
Part one of the question; do folks thing this would make a good wayspot?
Part two: Assuming yes to the first; there isn't an official sign for the area so what on earth would I use for a photo?
Has anyone tried this before? Any success?
Comments
Swimming is not a valid form of pedestrian access, it needs a walkway to it. Last time I checked, we can't walk on water.
Edit: to clarify, that's assuming the physical marker of it would be in the water.
A walkway to it wouldn't be necessary (remote islands are eligible) but it would need a place where you're expected to stand/congregate, like a dock, pier, boardwalk, or similar, would be required.
A sandbar that it only above water level only during low tide conditions has also been clarified unsafe.
I get the sandbar in the Ocean as not being considered safe. Tides rolling in an out can be very dangerous. This is a lake so the sandbar and its depth are constant. Not sure that standard would apply but that is good info to have. TY.
Per @Gendgi-PGO's response above this is my understanding as well. A walkway is not a requirement. The remote island example is a good one. There was also a discussion around POI's on a bike track that would not have safe access for just a pedestrian without a bike but are deemed valid because once you get their you can access as a pedestrian.
I'm on mobile data so I didn't watch the video, so some of my response was a little vague and perhaps not informed to your specific case. I interpreted it as a wading area where you can stand but would still be in the water - also obviously interrupted it as something coastal.
If the sandbar is underwater (as in just a low water depth area) I'd still classify it as unsafe. If it is a small island or beach, I'd consider it safe. As far as eligible, a case definitely could be made for it, but remember that "natural feature" is likely to be a rejection reason, hence mentioning the dock or similar construct.
Your bike analogy is something I've said before, too, and similar to a highway rest stop. A gazebo located in a rest stop would be eligible, even though you could technically only access it by driving. "Parking" isn't a requirement, but it would be helpful for reviewers to know that it is intended to be accessed.
If I saw it in voting, I would expect to see (clearly spelled out in supporting and visibly verified) either a place to land or moor a boat, or a place to be able to stand onto like a dock.
I agree with Gendgi-PGO post for pedestrian acces and other things, I don't have much to add to it :) I also think that apart for possibly pedestrian acces issue, there is a problem what could you nominate to get it accepted.
If your video is of the location you wanted to nominate, it looks like there isn't anything you could nominate on it - it's just sand and maybe two trees.
Does it have any eligible thing that might be and anchor for this nomination, so you could nominate it? If there isn't anything permament on it to nominate, then it would still be rejected as natural feature.
Yes, sadly I think your right without having a manmade sign as the "hook". Natural Features are no longer inherently ineligible. This is from the November AMA.
Natural features were previously explicitly excluded from eligibility but are now listed as examples of good Wayspots. Can you provide more information about any requirements for these locations?
Good question! It’s true that these are now up for consideration as eligible Wayspots. Famous waterfalls and lagoons, or popular cenotes and lakes are great places to explore. When considering these, think about whether there’s a specific location you can direct people to: a sign, an informational board, etc. Additionally, think about whether this natural feature is “just a random rock/tree” (which would be a poor nomination) or whether it’s a named feature with a famous backstory and/or a history (a great nomination!).
Sadly there is no "official" sandbar parking lot or information sign. It is simple known as the Lake Winnisquam Sandbar. I was thinking about going on an off day when their might be less people but then it might look like I just took a picture of the water. If I take the picture showing it in its full glory packed with boats and people then I suspect I will get rejected for being a live person. Catch 22.
Just clipped that. Allowed huh?
The AMA clarification that is being reference saying natural features are allowed is... confusing, to say the least, and has not been further clarified by Niantic to my knowledge. The fact that the "Natural Feature" rejection reason remains is a great example of why.
The rejection reasons at best aren't always worded reflective of the guidelines and at worst misinterpret guidelines.
"Natural feature" used to be an explicit rejection reason but was removed during the "3.1 criteria refresh." A criteria AMA gave us the following:
Q: Natural features were previously explicitly excluded from eligibility but are now listed as examples of good Wayspots. Can you provide more information about any requirements for these locations?
A: Good question! It’s true that these are now up for consideration as eligible Wayspots. Famous waterfalls and lagoons, or popular cenotes and lakes are great places to explore. When considering these, think about whether there’s a specific location you can direct people to: a sign, an informational board, etc. Additionally, think about whether this natural feature is “just a random rock/tree” (which would be a poor nomination) or whether it’s a named feature with a famous backstory and/or a history (a great nomination!).
https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/wayfarer/?s=other-faq&f=niantic-wayfarer-november-ama&p=all
Unfortunately, that is still pretty vague and submitters/reviewers aren't always in agreement with what it means. (Thanks, Niantic, for continued commitment to reviewer education.)
Is there a sign? Is this just a random accumulation of sand or a random patch of shallow water? Is there a specific location you can direct people to? Is the only way to reach it by boat? Once you are there, is there pedestrian access or is it all swimming and boating?
Is does look like a good place to congregate so on the acceptance criteria it has a hook, but I don't think is qualifies on the pedestrian access or the specific location items listed in the AMA. Does it have a name? Does it have a history? Those things might make it more acceptable.
Overall, I would give this nomination a low rating. The lowest rating would probably be for Visually Unique, you can't see it as it completely blends into it's surroundings unless you see it from a drone.
Sadly no signs. Its just a popular local natural feature. Years ago, and I mean like 50's 60's there was an island here, my grandfather has pictures of it. But it sense has eroded and all that is left is this giant sandbar. The interior of the sandbar is maybe knee-deep or less and is about the size of a little league field.
No sign, no wayspot. Natural features need a sign to be eligible.
@Oakes1923-PGO First of all, what a cool video! That looks like an awesome place to have fun.
Second, is there ANY signage at the lake? It might not be for the sandbar, but rather for the recreation area or the lake itself. The supporting info could include a photo of the sandbar and perhaps the vid.
Third, if no current signage, perhaps talk with someone who is a decision maker at the marina to get a sign put up? This is a longer-term solution, but perhaps may be worth the effort.
Good luck! Thanks again for the great vid. 😎
No physical tangible point tk anchor the wayspot to no poi. Simple as that
@Oakes1923-PGO I know exactly where that is and would be a great POI however at this point I may still fall under the pedestrian and natural feature @Babarushki-PGO has great advise about asking if they could make a sign or maybe a scout group or local group in the area. Maybe with more exporting, there maybe a sign.
again just from google maps and I like asking thank you again @Gendgi-PGO you always have great insight and clarity in your explanations
I do enjoy some of these grey areas. I think it really helps and shows a lot of reviewers passion and goal of making a great community.
If you get a sign made, the pin will have to be placed on the sign, not out in the middle of the lake.
Looks like a cool place to anchor a boat and swim but I wouldn't consider it to have pedestrian access as other's have said because there's nowhere to stand except in the water. If it was just a peninsula into the waterbody then everyone would say its just a piece of land with nothing interesting on it.
I went to google and it has reviews. 4.9 stars out of 5 stars. I think this place is cool. It does satisfy exploration and socialize. But like others say that dang pedestrian access. But overall isn’t this something that we should be looking for. Local spot, unique location hidden gem.
Winnisquam Sand Bar
https://goo.gl/maps/ox6BQ7DqL4C16aMW8
This may be the preferred method but how many times do you see a sign for a church as the picture of the POI but then the actual stop is at the church itself several cells away. Its not a set in stone rule.
Great, then you'll be happy to know I am working hard on this area to get more wayspots in and around the lake. I love the scout group idea although I don't live in the area so that might be a hard sell. I also think since its a state controlled body of water I would have to get Fish and Game involved. Sadly its probably a bit more of a process then it would be worth just to get a sign made so a wayspot can get created. LOL. And why 4.9 out of 5, who gave it less then 5 stars LOL. Must have rained the day they went.😂
I wonder why they included the additional criteria about popular natural features then. This is as just as physical and tangible as a waterfall, lagoon, or a cenotes, and its already on a popular lake. I know they make the recommendation that you should direct people to a sign or information board but the write up does nothing to state or even imply requirement of such. Sounds to me like another fun little "rule" "we" as a community decide to enforce.
I wonder if including the link to the google review page would help. Thanks for the feedback all, its got me thinking. Gonna have to get creative with this one.