Wayfaring in light of Covid Bonus rollback
Ellejayess-PGO
Posts: 46 ✭✭✭
As I and other pogo players are reeling from the prospect of reduced interaction radiuses, we might want to think about how it affects our nominations. Unfortunately it is a reminder that we are not ultimately in control of our creations or guaranteed as easy access to them in the future as we have today.
I created dozens of stops during covid, so do not yet know what their interactibility will be like with reduced radiuses. I suspect many stops will subsequently require road crossing, may not be so disability friendly (e.g. accessible by foot but not by path), or lack shelter/seating within the 40m radius. Adding more stops may offset some of the losses although there's really not much more I can add locally.
I think we can work to "future-proof" our submissions in some instances. For example, being sure that when we submit playgrounds we pin it at the footpath entry (the guidelines have always told us to, but submitters are complacent). We may also want to consider doing edits now for any stop that we will not be able to reach to edit if we leave it too late (N.B. I'm not advocating for falsification thank you very much, only for correction of wonky stops while it can still be done).
On that note, do we know if edit radiuses will be reduced?
Any other thoughts/ideas? Will you continue to nominate if they go through with it?
Comments
Interaction distance should have nonaffected on Wayspot eligibility or location. We should not be relocation Wayspots out of convenience.
The Pokémon GO bonuses were always mentioned to be temporary and shouldn’t have been factored in when deciding where to place a pin for a POI.
Someone already got a 30 day ban for attempts to move wayspots to more convenient locations instead...
Any valid location with 80m interaction will still be valid at 40m interaction. Aside from that, if you cared about accessibility and all that you should have cared for all of the Niantic games as PoGo was the only game that got increased distance.
How would they know about distance requirements of games they don’t play?
If the locations followed Niantic's guidelines on locations and pedestrian access to begin, with you wouldn't need to worry about interaction distance. But so far, this seems to be someone crying that they can't be lazy anymore.
Maybe they shouldnt, but shouldnt have assumed, this is Wayfarer for Niantic, not Wayfarer for Pokemon Go.
It's been the same all over Facebook and Reddit, people complaining they can't just sit inside their house and spin their favorite couchie pokestop anymore, they have to actually... go outside *shocked Pikachu face*
I can't wait for the distance thing to go back to the way it should be, all Niantic games are designed with interacting with the real world, not online and not sat at home, if you want that then your playing the wrong games, get a Nintendo Switch, I hear good things about it.
Secondly, Nia games are based on the real world, guess what the real world isn't fair, people who live in/close to dense cities are always going to enjoy more access to POI's and spawns etc, but that's the way life is, some people get couchies and you don't, deal with it.
Lastly, this discussion isn't even Wayfarer related, the distance at which you can interact with POI's shouldn't be considered when submitting or reviewing, if the pin is accurate and represents the location then fine, however I'm always willing to move pins if they aren't where they should be, if that means you lose a stop because of the cell system, then so-be-it.
Move along people, nothing to see here.
Is there a difference at present?
Dear @Ellejayess-PGO
alot has already been said, i just wanted to give you my input also.
You mentioned that you created alot of wayspots during COVID. I also did. I never had a second in mind "oh, the radius for pokemon go will be smaller when this is all over".
You are responsible for the safety of a wayspot, when you create it. Also people that review are checking, if it is safely accessible.
That is all there is.
Everything else is wrong.
Okay? Have a great time playing outside again.
I agree that this discussion is not Wayfarer related, but I cannot let the above be the last comment and final word. As a Pokemon Go/Ingress player, those increased distances for interaction were the one quality of life improvement that makes sense to retain. It's not a matter of wanting to sit at home and be lazy: doing away with remote raids will do that just fine. I'm usually the one finding raids and inviting people anyway. I'm a suburban player, and I go outside every day to keep my hack/spin streaks alive.
Prior to the distance increase, at a large raid with a group, we would constantly have to restart raids because of poor cell signal as I or another raider would get the "walk closer" message when trying to raid. I don't look forward to a return to those days.
In Ingress, groups needing access to the same portal are usually small. I will sit and attack or deploy on a portal as a solo player, and because I'm fussy about resonator placement I'll always deploy at max distance anyway. I can destroy a portal from outside teh radius if I want to use up a few more 8's. In Pokemon Go, though, you can have a large group come out in the dead of winter all needing to access the same POI. In two parking places, you can get in raid range from your car. Everyone else needs to stand in the cold even if they've traveled across town to get within raid distance.
Please don't characterize everyone who wants that extended distance to stay in place as lazy, or a whiner, or a housebound misanthrope. I do want Remote Raids to go away. I do want people to go outside. I'm just not convinced that this is a good move for that game in particular.
@Shilfiell-ING It sounds like you might be arguing for keeping the distance for gyms but not stops.
Not part of wayfarer, but i was a bit let down by the drop of the distance for the gyms (stops I don't mind so much, it was nice but wouldn't be end of the world). The pandemic isn't over, no matter what people say, there's ne variants ripping into countries constantly (look at the case numbers in UK, look what happened to india). Not only that, people will now have some levels of fear or feelings of uncomfortable around large groups now, especially if those large groups are having to bunch together together get in range.
I dont agree with ops argument that placement should now matter because the bonus is gone. Personally, i try to pick the placement where it will suit the most people, so long as its still correct (so for example, if I'm submitting a play park, I'd pick the edge that suits people, rather than the middle, or if its a football pitch, I'll pick the corner that's nearest a nearby path rather than the corner that's closer to a forest)
Yep, increased distance for stops is nice but doesn't exactly offer the same quality-of-life improvement that the gym distance boost provides.
I'm happy that someone else (@gazzas89-PGO above) brought up the post-covid fear of large groups, which is a real factor in this community. Many of the kids that play have accepted Social Distancing as part of normal daily living at this point. The thought of regrouping outside our familiar Pods is unsettling to the point of being traumatic.
this isnt a place to share those inputs, OP was in topic, your input adds nothing for or against the original topic
The same could be said for yours.
I am disappointed by the toxicity of some of these replies.
When someone says "remember to be courteous about acessibility (when submitting/reviewing), think of the players if you weren't already", how hard is a simple yes?
If you are an Ingress-only player then you must have had your own share of frustration with people pinning sand pits in the middle.
It also does appear that editing via PoGo app is linked to radius (currently we can add photos, change the name etc) from 80ms, meaning these activities may become more difficult at a later date particularly in high drift areas.
You might think this is all just "lazy people wanting couchies" but the reality is that with reduced radius, you could climb a literal mountain and stand at the very top and be unable to interact with the stop due to the slightest drift or misplacement.
In conclusion, if you're working via the pogo app in high-drift areas like cities, you might want to do that work while access is easy.
And always think courteously about the players when reviewing.
There is a large amount of backlash from the announcement of rolling the spin distances in PoGo back to pre-covid radii... But it they go ahead with it, I foresee a TON of location edits flooding the system, as level 38+ players try to move wayspots to more "opportune" locations (which would be abuse). IDK, am I thinking way out of line?
Oh no what ever did we do without an increase of distance? 🤭 oh yeah just go closer to the actual pokestop or gym. Not that hard. You make it seem like walking/biking/driving (what ever your playing preference is) is so painful that you cant go another 20m closer to the poi 😭
Also for other replies. There is absolutely no rule saying you have to place nominations in a courteous fashion. You are to place them in an accurate location. Not what ever helps people reach it easier. Pokemon go is all about getting out and moving around. Don’t get salty about added bonus’ that are being retracted because covid pandemic is starting to rap up.
@Ellejayess-PGO I'm primarily an Ingress player. I couldn't care less if people place pins for sand pits or playgrounds right smack dab in the middle. I have a 40 meter interaction range and a 168-meter burster range. Sand pits are rarely going to be more than, say, three meters in diameter and few playgrounds are more than ten meters in diameter, so if the pin is in the middle I lose 1.5 meters and five meters of my range respectively. That's trivial. If people are telling you that Ingress players must be able to get to the pinned location so that they can use ultrastrikes tell them that's bullpuckey. We survived for a long time without ultrastrikes being widely available, and there is definitely no need to be able to get into ultrastrike range... in fact it can be advantageous for my opponents not to be able to do that.
I've also spent a ton of time playing in highly-dense urban areas like San Francisco and Manhattan and I've meticulously mapped out some high-drift areas of San Francisco as part of anomaly preparation. I come down firmly on the side of "Just put the pin on the object and be done with it" unless it's an extremely large thing like a football field. For very large things I say "put it somewhere near the edge and be done with it."
Well, in a lot of cases it can require having to cross a 6 lane road, but right now you can stay on the other side. Or it can be kinda creepy having to walk right up to a playground with kids in it as a 20-30yr old man... But right now you can just be on the sidewalk walking by. I know GPS drift can be an issue too with gym raids. I only got back into PoGo the past year and obviously with the Covid bonuses in place. Overall its a much better game now. The last time I played pogo was at launch, living in the forested hills of NH where there wasnt a pokestop to be found... So just going off the circle around your player it does seem small.
There is no excuse for being toxic towards me by implying how lazy I must be.
I am a no-car from day 1 player who reguarly does 10-20km on bike and foot.
Prior to the radius increase, it was an everyday occurance that I would be standing directly at a POI but completely unable to get my character to come and stand with me, it would be standing out of range. I have reason for concern that experience may return when trying to edit names/photos in the future.
You are also confidently incorrect when stating there are no rules about courtesy. We have previously been advised to consider pinning sports fields to the side to not interrupt gameplay.
Don't patrionise me about needing to get up and move around - the increased radius didn't lead to stagnant play, it made it enjoyable/possible to interact with objects whilst exploring without the issue of gps drift.
The frustrated reaction to the reduction in interaction radius is to be expected. The post is teetering a little close to influencing reviewers to benefit a certain game though, which is considered abuse.
I think you also might be overlooking Pokémon’s cell spread with your suggestion and that sometimes, placing the pin at the street side entrance can result in one losing a pokestop if the cell is already full. If someone is able to submit a poi with the pin validly placed at the street side entrance, then of course, go for it!
I don’t think this change will affect Wayfarer and I will continue submitting as I was submitting prior to the change.
I literally play all the time. You can be far enough away from any playground while playing to not seem creepy 😂. If its on the other side of the road it is what it is 🤷♂️. Walk to it
so that sounds like you have a problem with your phone gps not being correct. As the game has always been you do not ever need to be directly on top of any stop to access it. Personal problem. The its not a courtesy to place pins outside of sport fields. It is direct guidance from niantic to do so to prevent players from interrupting games and putting them selves in harms way. No where did it ever say to place playground x’a point closer to a sidewalk so people have easier access. Again gps drift is an individual issue with your own phone and not a world wide issue. Upgrade your phone 😂
Maybe the 80m radius interaction range could have been reduced in stages until it's back to its original interaction distance. You know, go down to 70m, then 60m, then 50m, and then finally back to the original ~42m over a span of a year or something. Just my two cents.
The "Walk closer to interact with this Stop/Gym" error is indeed annoying, even getting this error in remote raids?! Preposterous. In reality, the 80m to 40m difference is fairly negligible. A couple of seconds at best, maybe even half a minute. Accessibility has always been an issue in location-based games, so it is a right shame that there is so much appeal for as such. There are already many ways in which the game developers have attempted to make it accessible (incenses, Pokemon getting gifts, more gifts to open, etc), but yeah...
GPS drift is actually a lot of fun as long as you aren't in a raid. Mostly it's due to being near tall buildings or having a very bad GPS signal on your phone device. A 40m radius is actually an 80m diameter, so really, you have much more space than particular people here seem to imagine.
Anyway, misplacing a POI just so it is slightly easier to access (by like metres) is often considered abuse to many communities, and depending on how your locals are, they can either be super precise and move it or really don't care. Attempting to futureproof a nomination in terms of reachability by placing it away from the object closer to like... say... a sidewalk will most likely end up being moved anyway. I don't really have a problem with the radius shift anyway, just another couple more steps of a detour!
P.S. Usually people nominate things to the side of something so that it's reachable. But recently a friend of mine had their water tower nomination moved right to the middle. Sad ultrastriking.
That is a misreading of my post.
In no way did it suggest favouring one game or another.
I advocated for being considerate without bias.
Thinking in terms of cellular spread is more along the lines of favouring one game over the other.
Why argue a technicality? So what it's a "direct guidance" not a "courtesy". Same difference.
I never advocated for misplacing submissions, I advocated for fixing misplaced ones while it is still possible.
Accessibility and accuracy aren't always zero sum game. For example when submitting a 4 lane cricket net, it is just as accurate to put the pin at the front on the net's signage, as it is to place it in the middle of the lanes. The difference is that the former is courteous while the latter may create a nuisance.
Fixing misplaced one while still possible
if something is incorrectly misplaced it should be fixed anyway, this doesn't change anything.
****
The interaction distance increase (as well as other bonuses) made the game BETTER in every aspect. Nobody complained about the bonuses, and the interaction change was said to be permanent. They are now going back on their word. If you don't think the negative sentiment is warranted, then i guess you'd also be Ok with your boss randomly cutting 90% of your paycheck. Oh, that's right, you wouldn't. Double standards much?
The only thing that's correct in your post is that interaction distance has no effect on how people should be positioning POIs. Had you only posted that, and your post would have been actually insightful, ****
Fully agreed! Why don't we just go back to how the game used to be in 2016, with servers crashing left and right, 1000 bag space and storage?
Game is down? Easy, just wait for it to come back on.
Storage space not enough to keep all your stuff? Easy, just delete stuff.
Anything that makes the game experience BETTER is a positive. Tons of gaming companies have kept bugs in their game because it made the experience more enjoyable and the general consensus from the playerbase is that it was benefitial.
Even looking at it from Niantic's POV (aka, Money), they increased their profits by making obsolete items into top tier (Incense says Hi). Logistics wise, the increased radius also made organization on the real world better, while also reducing potential problems. Why improve something, get positive feedback, and then go back?
****
Lvl 50 PoGo player here:
For me 80m is too much. I've permanently problems with spin cap and so on. Negative Highlight was the Gible C-Day, when I dropped to less than 100 remaining pokeballs.... I agree, that 40m is too damn short, but 80m is too much. I would give 50 or 60m a try...