Survey Markers Being Massively Approved on PRP

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Comments

  • jaimelee81-PGOjaimelee81-PGO Posts: 158 ✭✭✭

    As long as it doesn't interfere with the residence

  • jaimelee81-PGOjaimelee81-PGO Posts: 158 ✭✭✭

    That's how I interpret his words exactly with no twisting whatsoever

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ON PRP is not eligible, if a sidewalk is part of the property then it's not eligible. Some places the sidewalk is PRP some places it is not.

  • jaimelee81-PGOjaimelee81-PGO Posts: 158 ✭✭✭

    And how would you expect a normal citizen to know?

  • jaimelee81-PGOjaimelee81-PGO Posts: 158 ✭✭✭

    Its ok. Never mind. Agree to disagree.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,201 Ambassador

    Could look up city/municipality codes or expect it to be provided by the submitter.

    As a generalization, a little free library is more likely to be installed by the homeowner on private residential property and a survey marker more likely installed by the city. In my area, it's illegal for the homeowner to modify the land between sidewalk and street.

  • Darr247-PGODarr247-PGO Posts: 8 ✭✭


    Actually, private property extends to the middle of the street. There are just "public right-of-way" laws that allow non-owners to freely traverse the roads and sidewalks. Here in Michigan that "right-of-way" area extends 33 feet from the center of most roads (50 feet from the center of state highways).

    There are actually neighborhoods where that is NOT so, also...

    e.g. https://archive.curbed.com/2020/6/29/21306868/st-louis-gun-couple-protest-street

    though that's not Michigan.

  • TWVer-INGTWVer-ING Posts: 519 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In this kind of discussion, we always see people claim that their property extends all the way to the street. And that they own the land were the sidewalk is located. I have done lots of research into this, but I can't find an example of a place where that is the rule. Normally governments aren't allowed to place anything on your property, and you aren't allowed to place anything on government property.

    Can anyone provide a property map of a town or street, where this is the rule?

  • No1ofConseqence-PGONo1ofConseqence-PGO Posts: 161 ✭✭✭

    I've been doing some legal research and discovered something quite interesting regarding Western Australian Law.

    The first is the legal definition regarding the term 'road'.

    Road Traffic (Administration) Act 2008

    road means any highway, road or street open to, or used by, the public and includes every carriageway, footway, reservation, median **** and traffic island on it.

    Clarifying with a solicitor friend and a Police Sergeant friend... taking a normal suburban street, the road is the area of land that starts at the front fence line of the property on one side of the street and ends with the front fence line of the property on the opposite side of the street. And, you should be able to quickly figure out from what I've written, it includes where you would find those geodetic survey markers.

    Now we look at the code that lays out breaches and the punishment for said breaches.

    Road Traffic Code 2000 - REG 205

    205 - Games on roads

        A person must not play any game on any part of a road.

    • Modified penalty: 1 PU

    (A PU is a 'penalty unit' and is whatever the penalty unit has been determined for that time. In this case it's a financial penalty in the form of what's generically known as a 'fine'.)

    Pretty clear cut, isn't it? You'll notice it makes no mention of whether or not the person is operating a vehicle at the time. As a 'pedestrian' on a footpath you are still recognised as a road user and subject to the laws the same as a 'person operating a vehicle'.

    Now, would a police officer in the course of his or her duties stop you and fine you? Probably not. However, the law is clear they can.

    The second thing to note is that both laws only apply to the 'road'. When you're in a park and away from the verge neither law applies. So, from my reading of the law it is not illegal to play an AR game while you're in a park, on private land, in a building, in a carpark or similar. However, once you return to the road... as you return to the road... the law states you should be shutting your game down.

    As such, unless those geodetic survey markers can be reached from a location that is not on a 'road', then they're all in 'Inappropriate Locations'.

    Pretty interesting, yeah? 😈

  • WoodWose-PGOWoodWose-PGO Posts: 85 ✭✭✭✭

    I feel like the strictest interpretation of these laws would put quite a few Wayspots into a bit of jeopardy, not just survey marks. I can think of quite a few murals, information signs and urban trail markers that would also fall within this broader definition of "the road".

    Interesting none the less, I'd hate to be stopped and fined for playing Pokemon GO while walking my dog around the block.

  • Sunlitgarden-INGSunlitgarden-ING Posts: 143 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2022

    For what it's worth, in my area we have had several LFL's in the road side of the sidewalk and even one on the house side approved by Niantic appeals.

  • rufoushumming-PGOrufoushumming-PGO Posts: 220 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2022

    Just going back to the state survey markers

    They fail on several criteria.

    They are generic and mass produced. With about a million survey/positional marks in Australia.

    You can buy the disks used from several companies and they sell in huge batch sizes.

    The disks are also used in cemetaries, by the railways, by all utility companies and private organisations.

    Certainly in NSW. Most survey marks are built into roads, from the road kerb to slap bang in the road. Even the NSW government survey site says the same. Just plain dangerous. And if you have kids and playing Niantic games - yeah thanks for that!

    There is little to no arguement around these disks as not places to socialise, explore or exercise.

    Don't get me wrong. Very few marks are great and only because of their age or some historical reference. But these are few and far between when you have so many positional marks. Oh so many.

    And in the main these are all 3 inch sized disks nailed to the ground. You have to get on your knees to read them. The only difference is the number. Generic. yes......

    Epic fail by anyone who accepts them. And it is deliberate manipulation of the game by the people nominating them and the groups of people who work together on getting them through.

    They destroy so much of the good around Niantic.

  • HaramDays-PGOHaramDays-PGO Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Blah blah blah. This is exceptionally strawman. They have not destroyed societies or made ill the gameplay of where they exist, even massively. You're overexaggerating once again in your self-induced nightmare.

    Remember when we asked the Niantic Wayfarer Twitter what they thought of survey marks, and then asked how we should rate a survey mark that was right on the kerb in front of a residential property? "Make sure to add what they mean and why they're important in the description." Even when the poster clearly demonstrated clicking in a random suburb and the majority of the community's disdain shown towards them? It was still about giving it a good enough description.

    Unless they delete or rescind their statement, then they are absolutely acceptable provided their nomination has even an inkling of effort. Epic fail to those who don't take advantage of it. A nice coastal suburb has been blessed with six new gyms in their area in the couple of weeks since the Twitter posted their response. A popular Wayfarer-related podcast approves them at times. Even if it feels wrong.

    Groups do not come together to mass-approve them themselves anymore, there are single (or in some cases, one really good submitter and a few copycats nearby) individuals submitting them and then reviewing others' to generally either accept each other's so their own gets approved. I've seen survey mark nominations down from Gerringong, Bateau Bay, Morriset Park, Mardi, Thirroul, Cameron Park, South Penrith, Rosebery, Wilton, Frenchs Forest, Leichhardt, even the Royal Botanic Gardens where Community Day is held. There is no way there is a huge concerted effort to have all of them approved across all these localities. They are the community's general sentiment now. And whether it's defeat because they have now resorted to approving them because rejecting them does nothing, or joining in since they've started to also submit them themselves to almost a high approval rate, the average local reviewer might look at these, sigh, and then rate them three-stars at the minimum.

    Go ask Niantic personally about how they rate them, they don't seem to mind at all. Berating the people who accept them is frankly quite rude. Meanwhile, I should ask one of the survey mark submitters to visit Bellevue Hill, Paddington and Rose Bay.

  • rufoushumming-PGOrufoushumming-PGO Posts: 220 ✭✭✭

    apologies HaramDingo-ING my bad. bit of rant. Moral don't write when tired :-)

    Just got another Sluice Valce. Water stop essentially. Second one called State Survey Marker

    Am waiting next for the H ones (Hydrants)


  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,300 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You mean these? They appear as nominations on a regular enough basis to be irritating.


  • iDionz-PGOiDionz-PGO Posts: 36 ✭✭

    I consider myself as one of the original survey marker submitters. I banged on about there eligbilty to everyone I knew. Submitted my first one 3 times because rejection and then finally it got accepted. My **** that thought they were stupid and wouldn't get accepted tried about 14 the day after mine got accepted. About 3-4 got approved from the 14 and now has well over 300 under his belt accepted in western Sydney.


    if your hardcore pogo player and buying/renting this could literally change where you wanna move to.

  • rufoushumming-PGOrufoushumming-PGO Posts: 220 ✭✭✭

    sogNinjaman-ING yes. Oh my....... OH NO.......Yeah that H........ Sheesh

  • rufoushumming-PGOrufoushumming-PGO Posts: 220 ✭✭✭

    iDionz-PGO 300. There you go. Look if you don't try you don't know right. And the system lets them through. I don't. But enough do. They annoy me and I hate receiving them as a gift. If only PoGo could create a game just for them and they vanish from PoGo I would be happy!!

    Dang it. over 300...Fair go! That is actually pretty impressive...I hate to admit it ;-)

  • rufoushumming-PGOrufoushumming-PGO Posts: 220 ✭✭✭


    Just because I can. Someone pointed this comment from Niantic out to me from Wayfarer Criteria Challenge — Wayfarer (nianticlabs.com)

    Basically says these style of marks are super generic, not interesting and over produced. As I have always argued if there is something worthy about them from a historical or super interesting view then back it up. I have yet to see a nominated survey mark that is any of those things let alone backed upt

    • Survey markers… of course they came up hehe So these were also heavily discussed by the team. While we understand that these are super generic in some parts, in others, they are very unique. From our experience, we’ve seen these to be placed at the peaks of mountain trails, historically significant areas, etc. While in other areas, they are overproduced and not interesting at all, similar to the one shown below. Now, if there is an interesting or historical story to the survey marker, by all means nominate it and make sure to add that to the title, description, and/or the supporting information. This one in particular didn’t have that and seemed to be the size of a coin along the ledge of the street without pedestrian access. 


  • MargariteDVille-INGMargariteDVille-ING Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's about whether a place is close enough to a single family residence to interfere with activities or privacy. Most game interactions are 40 meters (131 feet) RADIUS in PokeMonGo and in Ingress.

    What if the next Niantic game is as popular as PokeMonGo originally was? With PoGo, people blocked residential driveways with their cars, chased PokeMon thru gardens, peeked into bedroom windows after creatures, shouted loudly after 8pm childrens'; bedtimes and after midnight.

    Maybe you think general human beings understand boundaries, privacy, and other people's comfort - so would never step a toe over a property line even if cool desirable game stuff was there. Maybe you've never been caught up in a game and forgot where you are. Maybe you think people who complain about noise at night should just shut up about it an lose the sleep.

    Maybe some day you'll understand that life is better if we take care of each other and try not to do things that makes anyone's life miserable.

  • iDionz-PGOiDionz-PGO Posts: 36 ✭✭

    Niantic says no now.


    also Niantic: still approving these on appeal.

  • jokeinsurance-PGOjokeinsurance-PGO Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    Where do rowhouses and rowhouses converted into apartments fall under this?

  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,300 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not PRP - multi-occupancy building - like condos / flats / tenaments etc. Simples. Thats why you see things like "But it has multiples doorbells and mailboxes so it's not PRP" type comments on some threads.

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