Morally conflicting nominations
SiIverLyra-PGO
Posts: 952 ✭✭✭✭✭
So this is a weird topic.
Just came across this nomination:
And... I honestly don't know how to rate this.
I strongly disagree with both the description and the painting itself - I don't think a mother's role is to birth soldiers, nor is a child's role in life to grow up to be a soldier (no matter what country they're from, for the record. This isn't about specific countries, but about the general message).
I don't think this is a message that any player, but children more than anyone, should be exposed to in Niantic's games.
But then again, this is my personal view. A piece of art is a piece of art and it's eligible per the guidelines.
I think I'll be skipping this one, but I'd like to hear more opinions on this for future cases. Do you think nominations such as this should be accepted?
Comments
I'd honestly accept it. It's in plain view of everyone so if it was truly offensive, the government would have it removed or someone would have it painted over.
There's a lot worse things in the world, let's not bring political correctness into a game that doesn't need it :)
The description to me doesn’t match the painting at all. But i don’t find anything offensive about the painting itself. Some people grow up and want to serve and others chose not to. I would accept this no problem
Painting and even title I don't mind, the description is... repulsive.
I'd propably skip or use 1* for title and description.
As I understand it, the meaning behind the description is something along the lines of "a mother's role in the world is to give birth to soldiers". Hence the mother holding the baby on the left side of the painting, with the baby gradually growing up to be a soldier.
It wouldn’t be right to downvote a religious building because it’s of a different faith to yours.
This does actually raise an interesting point, obviously things that are to do with hate speech and other nasty things aren’t appropriate, but it’s where to draw the line.
I just think by the criteria, is it somewhere to be social, active or that’s interesting, the rest you just go with your gut if there isn’t anything specific from Niantic to advise.
I didn't actually view this as religious as all. I don't think the "mother = soldier making machine" viewpoint has to do with religion (admittedly as an atheist I don't know enough about religion to discuss this further).
The reason I titled the original post "morally conflicting" is because to me, a nomination that presents women as soldier-makers (if we ignore the "children grow up to be soldiers" message, which is a whole other mess) sends as morally wrong a message as nominations of firearm shops, or a wall mural that says "do hard drugs!"
But I see now that this really is as gray an area to people as I was suspecting. So I'll just be skipping future nominations similar to this, if I ever see them.
I think there's nothing wrong with this piece of art itself. Unless there's something else about it that I can't see, I think it's acceptable.
The description, though, is deliberately political, controversial and - frankly - offensive. I think I'd reject it for the description.
The description is mind blowing, other person might use a totally different one with the same mural, for example reflecting on the age where the evolution stops. "No future for our children" or things like that.
The subject is clearly worth approving, the text is clearly worth rejecting.
Is it possible thats what the painting is called? The description i mean?
I think I agree. If the nomination was made in a different context, a critical one, then I probably wouldn't have had such strong feelings against it. (Although theoretically the text could be changed after the wayspot is accepted...)
Interesting idea... unfortunately there was nothing in the supporting information or photo that could shed more light on that.
Well it dies meet all location qualifications, if that is actually the title and description as the artist stated (I don't believe it is) then changing it would be more offensive.
We cannot apply what is and is not acceptable in our culture to another. If title or description is incorrect then a local who sees it can submit to change what is incorrect.
We are here to validate quality locations, we are not required to research to the ends of the earth to verify every letter is accurate which also means if we dont agree with title or description wording we have not right to change it either. If it truly offends you then just be happy with the fact you dont live near that location and if you do then by all means go there and verify for yourself the accuracy and if you find errors please submit the appropriate corrections.
So if there is nothing in the image to prove or disprove title accuracy then whats the issue?
In my hometown the water tower is titled "water cylinder" 15 mile north and all water towers are titled "North or South Water Tower" neither is wrong, neither would be disqualified due to title. So why be that overly strict on this???
We also probably should remember the description field is a field filled with the submitters personal description most of the time. They ask you to describe the location so it is going to be in their words from their perspective. You have every right to disgaree with it but NO right to invalidate it or use your personal disagreement with it as a reason to deny validity of the location.
Welcome to the forum, @KrakenMn-ING. I hope I didn't offend you so deeply that you felt the need to personally join the forum just to comment on my post. If you actually fear for the effect of my review on this specific nomination, then rest assured that I've skipped it a couple of minutes after the original post was made.
There was no Street View in the location of the nomination, so there was no way for me to know if it's accurately located or not, and it's irrelevant to the discussion.
I don't think your example of water towers/cylinders is relevant since I didn't make the original post to discuss the accuracy of the text, but rather the moral quality of the message behind it.
I do think that we're expected as reviewers to act with some degree of judgement as to the message behind nominations, be it the object nominated or the text submitted by the nominator. It's why we're expected to reject objects in cemeteries, or firearms shops, or adult clubs. It's also why there's an option to reject a nomination for being offensive under the abuse rejection options.
I'd reject this, just like I reject "monuments to the unborn", creationism museums, confederate monuments erected in the 20th century and other offensive stuff that has no place in society.
Offensive to who? You? We are supposed to review things objectively, without interjecting our opinions into what we are reviewing. If you are reviewing with a preconceived opinion on certain topics than you are doing it wrong.
Looks like "Art" to me - bound to upset someone somewhere. From a Wayfinder point of view - eligble.
If the nomination itself is acceptable but it conflicts with your personal views, I think the right thing to do is just skip it like you did.
This is volunteer work for a game, no need to feel pressured into accepting something you disagree with.
I'm sure all of us has some boundary where they would consider something too offensive to approve, you're lying if you claim you don't. And including this **** in these games normalizes it in a way that is unhealthy for society. I have no qualms rejecting this stuff and I'd encourage others to do the same.
Yet you are happy to work for free for a company whose moral standards and continuous deceit towards the community also have no place in society. Akin to said company, your priorities are upside down.
Never forget that what offends you may not offend me, and that offense is a matter of opinion. Should i start rejecting every religious submission like Churches based on the fact that Religion is the biggest scam in the world and that offends me?
Take your holier-than-thou attitude somewhere else.
The art is eligible.
The description (which looks like a deliberately political commentary from the nominator) is not.
Update: I've just stumbled on this mural again - looks like the first attempt was rejected.
To tie up some loose ends, I'll show the full thing.
From the changed text, I think it's safe to assume that "Mother's role in life" wasn't the official title of the piece.