Submission marked as "duplicate", but it isn't -- please rectify

Basically, there are two separate tennis courts on the same road, like, really separate, they don't even share the entrance. A friend of mine nominated both of them a couple of weeks ago, labeled as #1 and #2 in their titles.

#1 was accepted right away, but #2 was outright rejected, so I nominated it again (because my friend was out of nominations at that time).

Here's the bizarre thing: despite those fields being physically separated, visible from both the satellite and the street view, my #2 submission has been marked as duplicate of field #1. I even wrote that in the additional info "please note that they are separate fields". Some reviewers are dumb.

Niantic, can you please un-duplicate submission ehfgET7zkLc7odSbuSu32gWwFvy1W/yhKtWiGws9EA4=?

Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • Xmacke7x-INGXmacke7x-ING Posts: 214 ✭✭✭✭

    Get the pictures of the false duplicate removed in the invalid picture section.


    Then nominate the court again. Tell the Reviewern that this ist a seperate tennis court not a duplicate in the additional information. In addition add a link to the invalid picture thread. That's how i did it when I faced a similar problem with a playground and a informational sign

  • nineko84-PGOnineko84-PGO Posts: 47 ✭✭

    I actually wrote that in the additional informations, "please note that this isn't a duplicate of field #1", they even look different when you look at them via street view, I can get that one lazy reviewer might mistakingly mark it as a duplicate, but a whole bunch of them?

    I wouldn't want to nominate it again with the risk of this happening again (if reviewers were lazy enough to ignore the street view and the satellite, they'd never bother to read a discussion here), I hoped that Niantic could rectify this, but I read that they're mostly absent in these days, oh well.

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Calling them what ever name “field #1” and “field #2” is probably what lets your friends nomination down.

    Perhaps try a more unique title when re-nominating to prevent a duplicate result.

  • AScarletSabre-PGOAScarletSabre-PGO Posts: 741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2021

    The reviewing community is not that bright so one really has to treat them like they have an IQ score which is well below 100, for example. In terms of names I would have gone with something like "Tennis Court at the junction with Via Airone". Then the other one can make note of Viale Belve. Or some other feature. I've have people wrongly mark things as a duplicate too.


    Another way to go about it is to make note of the surface of the tennis courts. Is one a clay tennis court and the other concrete? Judging by the satellite view I'm guessing not but something for the future.

  • nineko84-PGOnineko84-PGO Posts: 47 ✭✭

    PkmnTrainerJ:

    The problem is that they don't have unique names, they're generic fields at their best. See, that's a city mostly used for vacations, and there are tennis fields everywhere for the most part (I nominated four more of them within a couple of kilometres), the only problem of those two is that they're somewhat close to each other.

    AScarletSabre:

    They're both concrete, sadly. I might look into renaming #1 as per your suggestion, though. I assumed that appending #1 and #2 was the best way to differentiate them, but it turns out that I was wrong. Thanks.

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @nineko84-PGO Nor do any of the trailmarkers that I have nominated. You have to get a bit inventive sometimes. From criteria:

    Title Guidelines

    Do submit titles that are:

    • Official titles, if known
    • If no 'official' title, creative titles to distinguish it from other nearby Wayspots

    So my suggestion is to get a bit creative to try and distinguish them if they are different.

  • TheDougie3-PGOTheDougie3-PGO Posts: 12 ✭✭

    Is #2 on PRP? Is it possible that reviewers thought it was because of proximity to the building just south of it? As another comment said, sometimes you have to account for reviewers that are blind. If it's not on PRP, you may need to explain that too.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 774 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Don't do #1 #2 thats bleh. Northern Southern would be a better choice if no other name is available.

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Be careful with the title, it seems that naming them #1 and #2 can lead to a penalty on your account. I'm not even sure if putting "Northern" and "Southern" it would be OK to some reviewers and Niantic.

    https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/20606/the-applicant-who-started-numbering-them-as-he-liked-case-at-warabi-city#latest

  • nineko84-PGOnineko84-PGO Posts: 47 ✭✭

    TheDougie3: no, they're both free to use for everyone. There are buildings nearby, but they're multifamiliar residences for the most part, as I mentioned this is a city mostly used for vacations.

    The problem here is that it was flagged as a duplicate, which is incorrect, as anyone could tell with 30 seconds of street view.


    WheelTrekker: I didn't know that :(

    Field #1 was approved as nominated by my friend, perhaps it could be renamed as suggested above as well.

    Still, the point at hand is that the "duplicated" outcome is wrong, which is why I thought to bring this to Niantic's attention. Once they're un-duplicated I will look into finding better names. Most fields are titled "tennis field in xyz street", but since there are two in this street, #1 and #2 were the obvious choice.

  • Eneeoh-PGOEneeoh-PGO Posts: 468 ✭✭✭✭

    I think you may be stretching a point.

    If you nominate a location you oftentimes have a sign or plaque you can use, in proxy: Springfield Golf Course Country Club, Peeble’s Playground, whatever.

    Niantic prefers that we use this ‘official name’ if we know it. They don’t demand we refrain from making a nomination unless we know and supply its official name. Their desire for POIs is greater than that for official titles.

    They require a real and correct location and a photo, they prefer an official name if known by the nominator, they also like creative names over generic ones, and they don’t want duplicate titles.

    It is very clearly a mix and match situation. If they change their minds, they will need to update the Nomination Requirements.

    We cannot be guided by someone’s interpretation of one official’s interpretation of how one Wayfarer construes the behavior of another.

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You're describing the logic interpretation that most of us did of the rules, but this is the response from the Niantic team to that report:

    So my advice remains: avoid using #1, #2 or you might be reported and action taken on you.

  • nineko84-PGOnineko84-PGO Posts: 47 ✭✭

    I'll make sure to propose a name change the next time I'll be there to be on the safe side, thanks again for the tip. Now I just hope that someone from Niantic could see this topic and split this "duplicated" POI into the correct two.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 774 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You'll have to resubmit the 2nd one. They can remove the photo from the 1st one. But thats all unfortunately.

    My rule of thumb (and also looks nicer for name, and helps prevent duplicates) is unless it has an official name, or is actually numbers like baseball fields are, name them directional. Southwestern Northeast west south... That way the name actually means something to because since nobody numbered them in real life... At least the name describes it geographical position. eg: "Housing Community Name Northern Tennis Court" "Housing Community Name Tennis Court (South)"

  • Freakmaster5050-PGOFreakmaster5050-PGO Posts: 60 ✭✭

    I’ve never had an issue giving individual numbers for waypoints. So I concur that many reviewers are just dumb and don’t look at the maps nor read the description. They saw there was already a tennis court nearby so assumed it was a duplicate. I had the same thing happen with a park sign. Two park signs for two separate entrances. Signs don’t even look the same (similar but very noticeable differences) yet mine was first marked as a duplicate and then just rejected 3 additional times 😒😒


    did not even know this was a thing. Def going to try and get my photo removed for that other park sign as it was made the main photo for it so now it really does look like a duplicate if I resubmit it.

  • nineko84-PGOnineko84-PGO Posts: 47 ✭✭

    Can I ask @NianticGiffard for feedback about this? In a nutshell: my submission of a tennis court has been marked as duplicate of a different tennis court down the road.

    Also did I use the @ thing right? I never used it before because I thought it wasn't polite l, but this isn't a subjective complaint so I would really like to see it rectified if possible.

  • jaimelee81-PGOjaimelee81-PGO Posts: 158 ✭✭✭

    I don’t think they will overturn a decision.

  • MargariteDVille-INGMargariteDVille-ING Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a good question. How far apart do similar things need to be, to be considered unique?

    Similar to the question about identical park signs at different entrances. Or two lion statues on opposite corners of a town square.

    If Niantic considers them duplicates, reviewers need to know. Or Niantic will not get the scoring they desire.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 774 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeah I have a trail map, that is North and South and are in different cells, and about 240ft away from each other on opposite ends of the parking area... Been marked as duplicate 3 times. So this time I'm not upgrading it so we'll see the results in 1-2 years.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 774 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They won't unfortunately. It falls into a "rejection" and CURRENTLY those are not able to be overturned. The guidance from Niantic staff will be to resubmit and revise your submission. HOWEVER... We are supposed to be getting an appeal ability at some point this year?

  • nineko84-PGOnineko84-PGO Posts: 47 ✭✭
    edited August 2021

    This hasn't been rejected, though. It has been marked as duplicate, which basically means "yeah it's approved but let's stack it on top of something else".

    Except that that something else is a different thing.

    As I said, this isn't a subjective complaint, this is an objective mistake by the reviewers, I hoped that a clear case like this could be handled.


    In general, I think it would be good to have a "marked as duplicate but it isn't" section alongside the other kinds of appeals on this forum, since it looks like this happened before, so aside from this particular case this might be a suggestion to Niantic and I'd still like to hear from them.

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Niantic is not gonna change the outcome of the voting, even if it's totally clear that these are not duplicates.

    If they reply to your query, at best I expect them to answer that these are too far apart or maybe refer to a previous answer by @NianticCasey-ING about tennis courts in a sport complex, but nothing more.

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As others have said, I think the outcome will be that a Niantic person on the forum asks you to resubmit it. I don’t know that they can “pull apart” submissions in that manner once they’ve been marked as duplicates. When re-submitting, you’ll want to check which photo is the main photo (i.e. the one with the most 👍‘s) on Field #1 to ensure it’s not going to look too similar to the one that is going to be re-submitted as you may fall into another duplicate in that instance.

    You get 6/14/20 submissions every 13 days depending on the game(s) you play. I’m sure you can spare one re-submitting Field #2 with a creative title.

  • MargariteDVille-INGMargariteDVille-ING Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2021

    The question is bigger than this one wayspot. But it's a good example of the question.

    If very similar objects are fairly close to each other, is it legitimate to call them separate wayspots? Or do real-life duplicate items mean that wayspots on them are duplicates (so not allowed)?

    Tennis courts, park signs, statues, trail markers, survey markers, manhole covers, UK post boxes... LOTS of examples.

    Are two different real-life instances of the same thing, duplicate wayspots? How close is too close?

  • nineko84-PGOnineko84-PGO Posts: 47 ✭✭

    Well, it looks like you were right, I guess that this POI is always going to be wrong.

    Still, for the bigger question, there should really be a way to dispute this kind of thing.

    This is my last post in this topic.

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