Sorry, just had to repost the clarification from Niantic in bold, just so it's more obvious. Am I going to get into the nitpicking about the differences between bike trails and bike lanes - no. Am I going to keep giving 1* reviews to generic blue numbered national cycle route markers - yes.
"Hi everyone, thanks for the lively discussion on the thread.
To clarify, cycling route markers can be eligible as long as they are visually unique and distinguishable. Generic ones should be rejected."
You do that it’s you choice. While some of us want change and clear guidelines for everyone and every country you sit there still using OPR guidelines never wanting for said game to get better for its community.
Somehow this answered the question but didn't and opened up so many more. Logically, the national cycle route fulfils both of those, you can find it on roads or on paths leading from roads, but also along canals and stuff, like, can you not look at the example given and say "yeah, that is acceptable" or "no, those arw the kind we don't want"
But then the one he posted right after it said generic ones don't matter and even used trail markers as an example, like, can't choose to go with one and ignore the other there.
So, based on my reading of it, it seems to me that the national cycle network isn't ok if its along a road, but, if its along a trail, say like along sode a canal or river, then that would be OK, thats how the second clarification made it seem. Which makes sense to an extent.
This is what I want, Niantic to look at examples and give us a clear yes or no I would even be happy with a maybe to some of them. Hopefully we can get some questions in on the next AMA about the national cycle route.
I would just like to be able to send some examples to Niantic of how the NCN routes in the uk change as you follow them. They promote exploration of the whole country. Some of it is along roads but a lot of it is off the beaten track and runs into miles and miles of countryside seeing some of the most historical sites of the uk.
I would love to actually get a proper conversation going and determine where the line definitively is.
However this question format that this thread started with reminds me of the OG ingress AMA’s where we would ask Krug a question and hope to get a favourable answer but then everyone would twist it to start accepting anything similar.
I’ve spent 2 1/2 years apologising for Postboxes and I don’t want to see anyone else make the same mistake.
Every time I review I get at least 1 EiiR postbox to review and I know that’s my fault, if NCN markers start getting approved then within days 90% of what we review will be them, you know that will happen because there are hundreds of thousands of them out there, everyone walks past at least a few whenever they go for a walk
I am generally quite lenient with trail markers. However, I do have an opinion on these blue and red markers, which is that they are generic. My reasoning is below.
Where a cycle route intersects with/joins roads that are used by cars and other vehicles, it has to follow the law regarding how road signs should look (Transport typeface, correct colour background, etc.), as it is considered a road sign at that point. That instantly makes markers like this that are part of a road sign generic, because they adhere to the same legal standards and specifications as every single other generic road sign in the country.
Markers that are off-road are not legally obligated to look like this, but often will anyway as this is consistent with the ones that are legally required to look that way. To me, this makes those markers also generic, because they could look much different from the generic road sign variety, but they instead follow the exact same standards that make a generic road sign generic in the first place.
As I said before, when it comes to sustrans routes, they often have markers which are not generic (such as the decorative metal one I showed from that stock image site), as well as often having info boards and such if the route has any history to it. If you want a focal point for the route, go out, explore said route, find something like that decorative metal marker to be a wayspot for the route. The generic blue and red markers are not really a good submission for this purpose.
I don’t think you understood the point I was making.
if NCN markers got accepted everyone would immediately go out and submit every single one they saw (and there are a significant number) and wayfarer would be absolutely flooded with them.
the wayfarer postbox flood was bad but at least there’s only 150k of them out there, how many NCN markers do you think there are in the U.K.?
Being generic and off road doesn’t make the less important to exploration or exercise. Off road markers or markers along dedicated cycleways should be be at least considered even if they are generic. But I understand not everyone will agree.
If we could get more communication from Niantic these debates wouldn’t go on and on. Having a back and forth conversation with them about different waypoints would be amazing but guess that will never happen.
Dont know why people are arguing this still lol. If the bike lane is part of the road it clearly has no pedestrian access. Just as if any other poi was nominated and was in the middle of the road (shocking I know).
If it has its own trail not attached to the road and you can distinguish between the different trail markers its fine.
the people who want to reject every single trail marker will eventually get banned when the niantic team starts doing to appeals for nominations. They’ll see people are purposefully reviewing against guidelines and will take action accordingly along with there policies.
I could say the same thing for play areas and play sets they are Generic and 100s on the in each town and city.
Couldn’t they say NCN markers that are off the beaten track or are not on main roads are acceptable. They are ones that need to be walked to or cycled to. This would promote exploration and exercise even more.
Play areas at least have some slight variation and are much bigger than a small Blue bit of plastic with a number on it. yeh I get some are a bit rubbish but there’s also not anywhere near the same number in comparison. My town has about 10 play parks, the National cycleway that goes through has that many signs just along 1 road so not a good comparison
Just wait till lizzie kicks it, then the arguments for eiir ones and royal mail ones going in (even I'll be against these unless it's those cuboid ones that I can't remember what are called) .... though you could make an argument for the first ever post box installed for the new monarch
Tbh the potential argument of Lizzie ones was partly why I worked hard to convince Niantic that George ones didn’t meet criteria even though they were old due to the sheer numbers of them. And actually I think the latest guidance is even stricter than the clarification I asked for, the issue is that I just don’t think the reviewing population particularly care.
This isn’t 21 questions, this is getting 100% clarification on what is expected which hasn’t been done as of yet.
the green biking signs are in America the blue ones in my local town. Difference? My ones lead along the north Norfolk coast cycleway which I’ve posted a picture for as well.
whats the difference? My blue ones are not just a sign of a bike and text saying bike lane so they should be ok. But I’m guessing you lot will say no for some reasons.
Bruh. Is this a bike lane part of a road? Or is it a separate designated bike trail not attached to the road. are these signs either unique or distinguishable from each other
if its part of the road its a no.
if its own trail its eligible
Are they distinguishable? If yes they are eligible
again that literally answers all the little 21 questions you were making because you do not want to think for yourself a little
and fyi ive always been advocating for trail markers for the longest time. The rest of the wayfairer community just needs to get there head out of the sand
Comments
Me too.
Same, and the same way I was reviewing already.
I know. My last paragraph about the networks was not related to the rest of my post. Maybe I should have made that more clear. Sorry.
Sorry, just had to repost the clarification from Niantic in bold, just so it's more obvious. Am I going to get into the nitpicking about the differences between bike trails and bike lanes - no. Am I going to keep giving 1* reviews to generic blue numbered national cycle route markers - yes.
"Hi everyone, thanks for the lively discussion on the thread.
To clarify, cycling route markers can be eligible as long as they are visually unique and distinguishable. Generic ones should be rejected."
You do that it’s you choice. While some of us want change and clear guidelines for everyone and every country you sit there still using OPR guidelines never wanting for said game to get better for its community.
Seriously give it up already, it was clear you just dont happen to like the answer so are arguing against it.
It is clear that you don't like the clarification that was made later on, and just choose to ignore it.
Can’t we all just agree to disagree, at this point no one is going to change anyone else’s mind so no point in flogging this dead horse
Nope, read that too and it was clear
Somehow this answered the question but didn't and opened up so many more. Logically, the national cycle route fulfils both of those, you can find it on roads or on paths leading from roads, but also along canals and stuff, like, can you not look at the example given and say "yeah, that is acceptable" or "no, those arw the kind we don't want"
But then the one he posted right after it said generic ones don't matter and even used trail markers as an example, like, can't choose to go with one and ignore the other there.
So, based on my reading of it, it seems to me that the national cycle network isn't ok if its along a road, but, if its along a trail, say like along sode a canal or river, then that would be OK, thats how the second clarification made it seem. Which makes sense to an extent.
This is what I want, Niantic to look at examples and give us a clear yes or no I would even be happy with a maybe to some of them. Hopefully we can get some questions in on the next AMA about the national cycle route.
We’ve been asking for clear examples (For lots of different submission types) for a long time but it’s never happened
I would just like to be able to send some examples to Niantic of how the NCN routes in the uk change as you follow them. They promote exploration of the whole country. Some of it is along roads but a lot of it is off the beaten track and runs into miles and miles of countryside seeing some of the most historical sites of the uk.
I would love to actually get a proper conversation going and determine where the line definitively is.
However this question format that this thread started with reminds me of the OG ingress AMA’s where we would ask Krug a question and hope to get a favourable answer but then everyone would twist it to start accepting anything similar.
I’ve spent 2 1/2 years apologising for Postboxes and I don’t want to see anyone else make the same mistake.
Every time I review I get at least 1 EiiR postbox to review and I know that’s my fault, if NCN markers start getting approved then within days 90% of what we review will be them, you know that will happen because there are hundreds of thousands of them out there, everyone walks past at least a few whenever they go for a walk
In my mind for these NCN to pass there would have to be rules.
For the postboxes I get it the current monarchs should not be accepted.
I am generally quite lenient with trail markers. However, I do have an opinion on these blue and red markers, which is that they are generic. My reasoning is below.
Where a cycle route intersects with/joins roads that are used by cars and other vehicles, it has to follow the law regarding how road signs should look (Transport typeface, correct colour background, etc.), as it is considered a road sign at that point. That instantly makes markers like this that are part of a road sign generic, because they adhere to the same legal standards and specifications as every single other generic road sign in the country.
Markers that are off-road are not legally obligated to look like this, but often will anyway as this is consistent with the ones that are legally required to look that way. To me, this makes those markers also generic, because they could look much different from the generic road sign variety, but they instead follow the exact same standards that make a generic road sign generic in the first place.
As I said before, when it comes to sustrans routes, they often have markers which are not generic (such as the decorative metal one I showed from that stock image site), as well as often having info boards and such if the route has any history to it. If you want a focal point for the route, go out, explore said route, find something like that decorative metal marker to be a wayspot for the route. The generic blue and red markers are not really a good submission for this purpose.
I don’t think you understood the point I was making.
if NCN markers got accepted everyone would immediately go out and submit every single one they saw (and there are a significant number) and wayfarer would be absolutely flooded with them.
the wayfarer postbox flood was bad but at least there’s only 150k of them out there, how many NCN markers do you think there are in the U.K.?
Being generic and off road doesn’t make the less important to exploration or exercise. Off road markers or markers along dedicated cycleways should be be at least considered even if they are generic. But I understand not everyone will agree.
If we could get more communication from Niantic these debates wouldn’t go on and on. Having a back and forth conversation with them about different waypoints would be amazing but guess that will never happen.
I’ve spent 2 1/2 years apologising for Postboxes and I don’t want to see anyone else make the same mistake.
What makes you think you’re done after 2 1/2 years?
😂
Dont know why people are arguing this still lol. If the bike lane is part of the road it clearly has no pedestrian access. Just as if any other poi was nominated and was in the middle of the road (shocking I know).
If it has its own trail not attached to the road and you can distinguish between the different trail markers its fine.
the people who want to reject every single trail marker will eventually get banned when the niantic team starts doing to appeals for nominations. They’ll see people are purposefully reviewing against guidelines and will take action accordingly along with there policies.
This is not rocket science people.
I could say the same thing for play areas and play sets they are Generic and 100s on the in each town and city.
Couldn’t they say NCN markers that are off the beaten track or are not on main roads are acceptable. They are ones that need to be walked to or cycled to. This would promote exploration and exercise even more.
Play areas at least have some slight variation and are much bigger than a small Blue bit of plastic with a number on it. yeh I get some are a bit rubbish but there’s also not anywhere near the same number in comparison. My town has about 10 play parks, the National cycleway that goes through has that many signs just along 1 road so not a good comparison
Just wait till lizzie kicks it, then the arguments for eiir ones and royal mail ones going in (even I'll be against these unless it's those cuboid ones that I can't remember what are called) .... though you could make an argument for the first ever post box installed for the new monarch
Tbh the potential argument of Lizzie ones was partly why I worked hard to convince Niantic that George ones didn’t meet criteria even though they were old due to the sheer numbers of them. And actually I think the latest guidance is even stricter than the clarification I asked for, the issue is that I just don’t think the reviewing population particularly care.
This isn’t 21 questions, this is getting 100% clarification on what is expected which hasn’t been done as of yet.
the green biking signs are in America the blue ones in my local town. Difference? My ones lead along the north Norfolk coast cycleway which I’ve posted a picture for as well.
whats the difference? My blue ones are not just a sign of a bike and text saying bike lane so they should be ok. But I’m guessing you lot will say no for some reasons.
Your blue signs are generic road signage signposts. They don't even reference a National Cycle Network route number.
They have the number 1 on them next to the bike on the sign it’s in the red box
Bruh. Is this a bike lane part of a road? Or is it a separate designated bike trail not attached to the road. are these signs either unique or distinguishable from each other
if its part of the road its a no.
if its own trail its eligible
Are they distinguishable? If yes they are eligible
again that literally answers all the little 21 questions you were making because you do not want to think for yourself a little
and fyi ive always been advocating for trail markers for the longest time. The rest of the wayfairer community just needs to get there head out of the sand