Oldest nomination still in Voting? (7 January 2018) - Ortsstein Gatow

dustinyeeaah-PGOdustinyeeaah-PGO Posts: 41 ✭✭
edited September 16 in General Discussion

Today I want to present the oldest (redacted) nomination I've ever seen. The infamous "Ortsstein Gatow" many reviewers came across (some even more than once) over the past months. As of today, the newest sighting was on 13.09.2021.

Thankfully, the Wayfarer saved the Link for the Nomination picture (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qKOvOLdsTFY4KgXUSK7rvi2iy-ZAWQe4n1svVFlkaS6DMQpuP4pFOkb9GMHcKaG3_PSbgm-85b-9yTgVCmg=s0). I saved the picture and ran a program to get the meta data. This is what I found:

Wow, this candidate is old! The german community thought it's a honeypot (created by Niantic), but I'm not so sure anymore. No matter if you accept this candidate (3 or more stars for every category) or use 2 stars or less for any catgory, your rating won't drop. Based on the satellite view, you could argue that there's no safe pedestrian access. Given the location and the fact it's a very small village, a good/bad rating for the category doesn't have a different effect on your Wayfarer rating (Good = 3 stars or more; bad = 2 stars or less).

As of today (16.09.2021) the candidate is still nowhere to see on the Intel map! This is the Portal link for the nearest Portal, if you want to see for yourself: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=53.106179,14.326533

Post edited by dustinyeeaah-PGO on
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Comments

  • Raachermannl-INGRaachermannl-ING Posts: 600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16

    I had it for review too. Few months ago. And I had also the honeypot idea in mind. So I looked very closely at this nomination and decided to accept it and look at my rating. It didn't drop after accepting it.

    The point with the pedestrian access: of course its not a 5* in that category, but its enough to give 3* and not to reject because of this.

    Zooming into the sat view, one can see a light grey line on both sides of the street. I guess that there is a bit of pavement, although not really broad. So even if it isnt a pavement, I wouldn't reject it, because the street can't be a trafficed one, because it's the only one, that leads to that small village. So there is no transit traffic, and the traffic caused by the few dozen houses might be neglectible.

    One could say, that there is a bridge and a street over the river at the other end of the village, but its nethertheless a dead end. The river there is only one of many arms of the border river Oder between Germany and Poland, and at that region the river creates lots of arms and marshland islands. so that's only an access point to the nature preserved marshland islands. So this causes roughly 0 traffic ....

    Further: villages and small towns in Germany have in most cases no pavements at their old streets, since the street between the properties are old and not broad enough to allow spaces for dedicated pavements. They were planned centuries ago, when noone had car traffic, bike lanes and pavements for pedestrians in mind .... So pedestrians are used to walk at the edge of the street, car drivers are used to pay attention to these pedestrians, and evrything works fine ....

  • dustinyeeaah-PGOdustinyeeaah-PGO Posts: 41 ✭✭

    @Raachermannl-ING good point! I think it's a valid PoI and I have definitely accepted it the time I reviewed it. I only gave like 4* for the pedestrian access. I was raised in a village and know the road conditions. We even have a church in the middle of two roads in a neighbor village. The village in this case is so small, that there's likely very few traffic. It's likely safe to walk on the side of the road here. Since we both gave the category 3 or more stars and our rating didn't dropped, I would argue this can't be a honey pot. Someone commented he gave this candidate 2 stars for pedestrian access and nothing happened as well. I think that's the only "logic" error you could make here. Other than this specific category, very good candidate!

  • LukeAllStars-INGLukeAllStars-ING Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had it like 5 months ago. Funny to still see it in review.

  • Thor3381-INGThor3381-ING Posts: 191 ✭✭✭

    Not relevant but a similar case in my review area

    I had a review of a nice graffiti today, a pre-wayfarer submission (no supportive picture)

    Problem was: the place where the graffiti was had been totally reworked since, street and sat-view were a few years old, submission even older.

    It was nice, but no longer there so I had to reject it

  • LukeAllStars-INGLukeAllStars-ING Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What's most interesting about this is the fact that the nomination should not be in queue for that long. There are no big cities near and the review boost cell also don't have many POIs:



    There's like nothing inside the L9 WF boost cell. So the queuetime should not be longer than a year

  • dustinyeeaah-PGOdustinyeeaah-PGO Posts: 41 ✭✭

    Thanks for the additional input!


    A little update:

    My first sighting: 28th April 2021 (There could be older sightings, this is the date I got to review this candidate)

    Latest sighting: 20th September 2021 (Thanks for tagging me in the German Wayfarer Group!)

  • Raachermannl-INGRaachermannl-ING Posts: 600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know a PGO player, who was born and raised in the town of Schwedt (the town, that incorporated the village Gatow). According to his statements the town has reviewing timescales of a few weeks. So usually roughly 2 months, and nominations get their result....

  • LukeAllStars-INGLukeAllStars-ING Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, nothing inside the bosst cell (L9 S2) but Berlin in the review cell (L6 S2). Thats perfect for such a place.

  • Eneeoh-PGOEneeoh-PGO Posts: 457 ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, if only @NianticDanbocat could find someone to take a look under the hood for this one.

    It seems similar to that Hallelujah Mountain Wayspot at Disneyland that just keeps recirculating in queue/in voting regardless of any input.

  • dustinyeeaah-PGOdustinyeeaah-PGO Posts: 41 ✭✭

    Newest sighting: 13th October 2021

    @NianticGiffard anything wrong with this candidate? How is this still in Voting? It likely has been submitted 3 3/4 years ago!

  • Hello @dustinyeeaah-PGO,

    Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I agree, this is a very long time and understandably so. I can imagine the ratings being across the board meaning it hasn’t gotten enough votes in favor of accepted or rejected. Thanks!

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's not what's happening. There's a period of time where nominations appear to be glitched and never receive approval. We've noticed it with a few nominations - notably "The Raven" or "Hallelujah Mountains" but so far Niantic seems incapable of figuring it out themselves.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NianticTintino same applies here, this isnt our first rodeo. These nomination are STUCK. They are receiving ENOUGH reviews we have shared examples of countless people reviewing them for months at a time. Listen to the community when they tell you something is WRONG.

  • rodensteiner-INGrodensteiner-ING Posts: 936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NianticTintino yes, the nominations are stuck. we have been telling this all along when @NianticCasey-ING was in Office.

    This has been circled, but somehow was never looked into by the people that do this kind of job. There are people with you that do this kind of Job? Or someone that has been from a company that does that job for you. Or someone that has been outsourced by that company.

    Anyways, you should be able to see how many people had that in voting, and gave what voting. Telling us this : "I can imagine the ratings being across the board meaning it hasn’t gotten enough votes in favor of accepted or rejected"


  • Testonoga-PGOTestonoga-PGO Posts: 42 ✭✭
    edited October 14

    I thought you had more insight into the system, so honestly, I don't believe you should answer based on what you "imagine". You can probably see more data on how people have reviewed that particular submission, since it's an outlier even by what we're already used to, regarding waiting times.

    While it's certainly possible that this particular nomination was deemed "controversial" due to the lack of a photo confirming the surroundings, which wasn't included in OPR back then, there are probably other, more important reasons. Some nominations just aren't shown to any reviewers in a very long time, or not at all. Since some others say that certain submissions were actually known to have more than enough votes, you should look into that first instead of giving too general responses.

    Anyway, since this nomination already got some attention, it's just very likely to be "rejected by Niantic review" at this point because it's just easier and … that's why.

    Post edited by Testonoga-PGO on
  • ScaryS0ul-PGOScaryS0ul-PGO Posts: 43 ✭✭

    I think niantic internal reviewer should have tackled the ones that have been stuck for more than 1.5yrs instead of doing the more recent submissions...

  • peardrop-INGpeardrop-ING Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited October 15

    So my understanding of this is that there are set cut-offs for voting, and that a candidate must reach either the rejection or acceptance cut-off to get a decision

    E.g. if the average score is around 4/5 after a baseline number of reviews, it will be accepted, if it's around 1/2, it will be rejected, but if it is around 3, it will remain in voting until the average reaches the prespecified threshold


    This means that a controversial candidate that receives 5*/1*/5*/3*/1* will remain in voting for much longer (or forever) vs one that gets 5*/4*/4*/5*/3* or 1*/1*/1*/2*/3* (simplified example)

    Regarding the specific example given, as it's was pre-supporting photo, it's probably not going to be fairly rated, esp by reviewers who maybe don't know that supporting info is a relatively new addition


    @NianticTintino might it be worth getting someone to look at any subs still awaiting decision that were submitted using Ingress redacted e.g. before it was retired in September 2019, and either reach out to players affected to offer the chance to upload additional materials/a supporting statement, or get it reviewed by Niantic.

    Post edited by peardrop-ING on
  • AScarletSabre-PGOAScarletSabre-PGO Posts: 548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I also have a nomination which has been stuck in voting for over a year!

  • rodensteiner-INGrodensteiner-ING Posts: 936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Theres also always the possibility that there is a stack of submissions piling on each other; at least if there is another submission of the same thing, these will block them out until eternity.

    Niantic doesnt care about this thou, or they would have changed it years ago.

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16

    @NianticDanbocat can you take a look at this issue that @NianticTintino just dismissed?

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16
  • Um, it's very late for me. Anyone want to give me a summary of the request? ;)

  • Davejjjjj-INGDavejjjjj-ING Posts: 51 ✭✭✭

    ?? Title says it all - nominations stuck in voting for years never get resolved, in particular from Ingress scanner redacted. Can Niantic auto-upgrade them, or review them manually?

  • rodensteiner-INGrodensteiner-ING Posts: 936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NianticDanbocat theres always the problem that there have been phases in Wayfarer (and OPR) where things that were submitted got clogged in the system.

    Your workmates and engineers never have gotten to the point of resolving that, mainly because they had other priorities and squirreled around elsewhere.

    We are at the point where we ask you to look into the voting history of this -> Why has it never been resolved? Are there other things to be seen as to WHY this is stuck? Is it maybe twice submitted? As a Niantic Employee, you could see these things? Or does only -JH have the rights to do that?

    Connected to this is my question, -> Why do you review submissions inhouse that were recently submitted? Theres a Shed Full of Old Submissions that we Wayfarers have submitted that are not resolved.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's very early for me :)

    Lately, reviewers have seen a surge of nominations enter voting that were from the REDACTED platform - meaning, at the very least, they are now 2 years old. The curios thing is that people report seeing some of these from all over the country, so they act like "upgraded" nominations, and despite dozens of us reviewing, they still get reported by new reviewers months later.

    Personally, I don't suspect that it's a "mixed votes" issue. We used to think that these were honeypots set up by Niantic, but now a growing suspicion has been that there was a bug during a nominations period that affected these in voting.

    One such nomination was reported here:

    https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/21008/nomination-stuck-in-queue-for-3-years

    As you can see, multiple people reported reviewing it. I saw it, too, despite having no review connection to Florida.

    Another area is a church that myself and dozens others saw about 7 nominations for the church and various statues, yet none of them continue to be approved.

    I know the basic answer is they need more votes, but could you please dig a little deeper and see if there's a different issue that may be affecting these specific nominations, and then see if that issue is affecting others? At the very least, there's no reason a REDACTED nomination should still exist.

  • RatataFan045-INGRatataFan045-ING Posts: 7 ✭✭

    Those nominations in questions are in fact the ones that have the most votes in total 🤣🤣. “They need more votes” “do you have any summary of the request”


    Niantic is just being a big f*cking joke rn....

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