It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.
Sign In with Ingress Sign In with Pokémon GO
You are making a good point. We should accept hiking shops as well.
Nope its not different.
Gathering together to attend a class together is no different to a group of people all deciding to go on a shopping expedition around different stores.
And saying it's valid as a business becuase you exercise there doesnt work either.
You go to the dojo, pay your money, do your exercises go home.
You go to a hiking shop, you buy your equipment, and go hiking, you're doing your exercise elsewhere, but youve been to " a place that encourage walking, exercising, and enjoying public spaces. "
Word for word part of the criteria.
Just being a place to exercise is not sufficent to distinguish the generic nature of the businesses.
Lol, im not trying to justify a hiking shop or a generic shoe shop that sells hiking / walking boots.
Hiking clubs yes, an equipment store no.
At the fundamental level there is no difference between what a Karate Dojo and a Hiking shop do, they both sell a service.
A hiking club however has social community interaction, and really encourages outdoor activity and exploration.
A local Karate Dojo does have a good social camaraderie, I know some local to me, especially the younger classes, where they go out and interact with the community (or at least did a lot more before the pandemic).
They are good reasons to accept both a hiking club and a Karate Dojo.
However just saying, well it encourages exercise, isnt enough. Paths down the street encourage exercises as do shops that sell hiking equipment, shoe shops that sell walking boots.
If you want to take it to the extreme shops that sell cold weather jackets with all the accompanying adverts on the walls usually pictures of two people in an amazingly sunny mountain vista emplying you can go out wherever and stay warm are encouraging exercises (mainly warmth granted, but still saying look you can go here if you want to we're providing you with the equipment for it).
None of them are good candidates, and a karate dojo, which lets not forget is a business, needs something to distinguish it from any other business that encourages exercise.
Your in an extreme minority who argues that there is no difference between what a DOJO does and a Hiking Equipment Shop
everyone keeps saying your wrong, and you keep digging in.
There is a clear and unmistakable difference..... the DOJO provides its service on site, hiking equipment isn't used on site.
The site is what is being judged. At a dojo, you practice and preform there too. Sure you can go home and practice more. But in that sense the DOJO is no different than a basketball court which is almost universally accepted. I play basketball at local court in park. Bit I cann go home and practice basketball too in my driveway. So by your logic no basketball court should be accepted because you can exercise via basketball anywhere not just at the court.
This feels like leg sweeping a dead horse, but why not?
When I did taido, I purchased my gear from a specialty shop. It was a shop that sold wide array of martial arts (and sports) equipments, not services. I didn't exercise there and I wouldn't claim that the shop promoted exercise or is/was locally significant.
When I did taido, I went to local the gym/dojo. It was a place(!) to exercise, it was a place to be social with others. The gym/dojo did promote excercise and was/is locally significant.
The first is comparable to a hiking shop, the second is not comparable to a hiking shop.
The first is not a Waypoint, the second is. As it should be.
At the risk of starting something, I'm gonna add something spicy Kellerrys'@Kellerrys-ING statement (which I agree with), but: why not both? Dojos and gyms should be eligible for the reasons they mentioned. Why also not highly specialized stores that are locally relevant such as this martial arts equipment store that I believe don't exist by any large margin in most places (outside of their respective countries of origin I suppose)? Unique business, hyperlocal spots, the like. I doubt stores like that and similar would come in high volumes. This obviously would go on a case by case basis (unlike with gyms and dojos), but overall... Why not? 😄
I think you doing a better job at defending the eligibility of (some) stores than you are at defending ineligibility of the dojos...
For my purposes, local gyms, crossfit gyms, boxing gyms, karate studios, mixed martial arts; short of being part of a large chain, are all inherently eligible and make excellent Wayspots if properly submitted.
The issue that you will run into is there are folks, that put additional conditions on these types of locations that they do not apply more broadly to other types of nominations. They look at a nomination like the OP and apply the logic that the nominator has not "done enough to sell it to me", or not "given me enough information to mark it a five star so there for its a 1*". I have a feeling these same folks turn around and give every gazebo a 5* without much thought, but that's just a hunch.
They then compare a business where you actually work out and exercise at to something like a shoe store. Which runs counter to common sense, but that's how they justify it. It akin to saying go ahead and eat any orange, but them saying you cant because they make fake plastic toy oranges so now you can not eat any orange without first specifically stating that it must be a real orange first. Would I go into that detail with my two year old, maybe. Would I expect someone who reviews nominations to require that level of detail...... do I even need to finish?
This reminds me of a karate studio I recently got accepted. The first time I submitted it was rejected. The second time I included details about the two instructors that were both members of the Martial Arts Hall of Fame in New York and it went through in a couple weeks. Nothing else was changed about the submission but that additional color made the difference.
Keep in mind the Wayfarer is minority rule. Even if 60-70 percent of reviewers agree with you it takes less then 50% to get a good nomination rejected. We don't know the exact numbers but some reports have it as low as a third of votes to get something rejected. Sadly because of this business nominations make good targets for fishers looking to get a couple extra percentages to gain an upgrade. Folks who vote with these additional conditions end up helping incentivize those that vote improperly, which helps things get rejected, which in turn justifies their voting pattern to themselves.
@pinediablo-PGO I would 100% resubmit this. Try to get a but more details about the studio. Do they host tournaments, workshops things like that. Any color you can add would be good. Remember, the majority of reviewers are with you, there will always be those that ignore the guidelines for whatever reason. You just need to tip the scale ever so slightly the other way to get these types of nominations through.
Best of luck, hope that is helpful.
Yes indeed, you get people who do not want to admit they are unwilling to follow the guidelines laid out by Niantic. Thus, even if a particular dojo nomination is perfect (which of course this one at the start of the topic was not) they will always find a reason to nit-pic because it's something they do not like to see as a Wayspot, even if Niantic says it should be acceptable. Say in the case of your gazebo example, if there were people or car number plates in the supplemental photograph for it, these people would have no trouble accepting it but in the case of a dojo would turn around and lament the fact that people are in the the supplimental photograph for the dojo for example. They will find whatever reason they can to reject a valid nomination which they do not like.
Too many people ask WHY something should be a POI. Not enough people are asking why NOT.
The entire wayfarer effort is to improve gameplay, not to nitpick nonsense or seek the purity of some corporate entity's database via free labor. If things meet criteria and are defended decently enough for what the POI is, the submission doesn't need to be perfect. Dojos and gyms clearly meet criteria. If someone threw a nomination for a hiking shop at me and explained it sold specialty hiking gear you can't get in regular stores and enabled hiking across difficult terrain, I might just accept that too. It's not like you find either one on every street corner. They're not generic in any way. Both are highly specialized in what they do.
You're trying to reason with someone who thinks Niantic has quality control. You're literally better off talking to a wall.
Are you spinning the stop while training, or just driving up, spinning and driving away? When I nominate spots on a hiking trail I'm actually hiking, using the trail for what it was meant for in addition to playing my games.
You ever heard of a product called Pokémon GO Plus? This is a product endorsed by Niantic and is not considered to break any terms of service. It's perfectly reasonable to expect a Wayspot to be interacted with whilst being inside a place and training.
If I'm teaching a class and my pupils are continuously emitting a buzzing noise and pushing a button on their wrist, they're not devoting their attention to my training and will be quickly dismissed. The Go Plus is still an interactive device requiring the attention of its owner.
I was not specifically talking about people in a class, so that's a strawman. If a person is on a treadmill or exercise bike in a gym, it is reasonable to assume they could be wanting to interact with a Pokémon GO Plus. After all, many people already interact with their smart watches whilst exercising.
I don't understand your point. I suspect you misread the comparisons being talked about. The discussion centered around a comparison between a Dojo and Hiking Gear Shop, not a hiking trail.
Hiking trails make great POIS because you are doing your exercise on site. But Dojos, Gyms, aren't any different than say a basketball court, baseball field, etc. You aren't interacting with them in the middle of playing game, just like you wouldn't be interacting with Dojo while class occurs.
But spectators can interact with Dojo/Gym/Baseball Field/Basketball court. Players can interact before and after games
They are places where you actually exercise, and fit the criteria. Stores that sell gear to exercise with dont.
You don't pay to play on a basketball court.
This is all completely beside the point. How you interact with the in-game objects is completely irrelevant.
You have to pay to see a play in a theater. You have to pay to visit a museum. You have to pay to see a sports game in a stadium.
You also wouldn't play the game during a play, game or while looking at art. (Or sou would - I don't really care, it's irrelevant from the Wayfarer standpoint.)
Still, theaters, stadiums and museums are good Wayspots. So are places of excercise.
Since when has having to pay to be in a particular place mean that place is not eligible to become a Wayspot? As long as at least one person is able to safely access that point of interest then it does not negate the "safe pedestrian access" criteria. You appear to be "shifting the goalposts" now, as it were, rather than admit defeat, because clearly nobody on the side of dojos was convinced by your prior arguments.
You do know lots of parks FULL of dozens and dozens of POIS are pay to enter right?
A local metropark costs 10 to get in or 30 for a season pass has over 100 POIs in it.
Sorry, I thought your "whilst being inside a place and training" statement was referring to the Dojo example, which as I've said before is eligible from my point of view because it's a place where education and social interaction are the primary products on sale. I do think that a Go Plus still demands interaction from its owner and can be quite disruptive in these settings, as it would be anywhere that demands concentration.
Fair enough. I personally do not own a Pokèmon GO Plus. I can see why there would be a temptation to use one and would never lambast any person for doing so, even if I personally think it's pasè to do so.
(Not meaning to suggest anyone here would lambast anyone).
damn funny reading all the toxic people talking bs saying unique dance studios and gyms are ineligible, Niantic had to even step in and tell them otherwise 🤣
@NorfosAlus-PGO yes, guess what, this happens with alot of things. People still will reject these things because, well, they dont want them in their portal network.
Pristine, clean and lean with only good POI.
They dont want Dance Studios, Martial Arts Gyms, Unique Restaurants, Wandering Trailmarkers etc.
People even were so thick of the discussion with Trailmarkers that they closed down the whole discussion to reduce visibility of the topic.
Talk about Toxic - Here is THE place to be.