Are floor maps of shopping centers eligible?

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Answers

  • X0bai-PGOX0bai-PGO Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2021

    I don’t think it’s inherently eligible nor ineligible. I can see it falling under “great place to explore,” though low marks for visual uniqueness and cultural relevance, and indoor nominations are usually tough to justify the pin location. I can see why someone would want more POIs at the mall though, as malls are usually one of the better areas to play, especially in bad weather.

  • AScarletSabre-PGOAScarletSabre-PGO Posts: 754 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2021

    I'd agree. The long answer is:

    There has to be something particularly artistic or unique about the particular floor map you wish to nominate (even if it was interactive it'd still probably be rejected). Also, if the floor map was also providing tourist information or was coupled with a notice board of some kind, then I personally might be inclined to accept it. However, most maps of this kind just function as index of stores, with nothing of real value and would be classed as an aspect of a generic business. Business nominations can be accepted in certain circumstances mind you.

    Maps provided by local government tend to be better nominations because they tend to provide useful information for day trippers and tourists. Thus - like a notice board - although they do not necessarily meet any criteria on their own, they lead people to places that do meet the criteria. The map you have shown us does not really point us in the direction of anywhere truly exciting and does not look exciting either, thus it is not really eligible.

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What total tosh.

    You're taking that out of context and applying it to a generic map. That thread was about a shopping plaza being a valid place as a community hot spot.

    You should not cherry pick a comment out of context and apply it to a generic floor plan map.

    The suggested POI on this thread is NOT valid, and you really should not be trying to validate it using a single comment on a different topic.

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NianticGiffard care to chime in on the can of worms you've opened.

    Have you given the go ahead to accepting floor plan maps of shopping malls.

    I believe you haven't

    @Oakes1923-PGO believes you have.

    Which one of us is correct.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When this very same topic came up before, @NianticCasey-ING stated emphatically that they were not eligible as they did not meet the criteria. Unfortunately, that hasn't stopped people from nominating them. As for the clame that they are "great places to socialize", you can stop with the bad jokes now.

  • flatmatt-PGOflatmatt-PGO Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2021

    That comment reads more to me like stating that an information board could be an anchor point for a mall. The type of information board (map) being discussed here would likely be replicated in 10 to 20+ places throughout the mall, and there would likely be a better anchor point for this type of mall (like an entrance). Even if it was a good anchor point, it would be the mall itself meets acceptance criteria, not the map.

  • Darkai-PGODarkai-PGO Posts: 22 ✭✭
    edited November 2021


    Are you actually implying a shopping mall is not a great place to socialize? "Going to the mall" together with friends/people is literally one of the most common socializing activities people do.

    It also seems you didn't read the quote by NianticGiffard above, where he explicitly states that shopping plazas are a valid submission through the "A place to be social with others", but it has to be submitted through some kind of information sign representative of the place

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NianticGiffard was talking aobut malls or shopping centers that have social gather spaces. But most malls and shopping centers do not have such space. But that doesn't mean that the map of a mall or shopping center wouldt be eligible under the "great places to socialize" criterion. That is an expectorantly large logical leap in order to justify a mall map.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    Casey also stated multiple times, emphatically, that gravestone markers should be acceptable per visual/artistic merit, a direct contradiction to various other sources.

    Time to stop taking their "clarifications" too seriously. Less and less should be categorically eligible or ineligible. A generic map at a generic outlet store would most likely get rejected from me. Other maps at boutiques or downtown cultural districts should be eligible. There exists many in-between that should be reviewed case by case.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    Yes, they are. Is a map of all the store locations an appropriate visual marker for the mall? In most cases, I suspect not. Malls often have fountains, artwork on display, a museum, play place, or unique and visually distinctive signage for the mall that all make better nominations.


  • SlicedPeas-INGSlicedPeas-ING Posts: 336 ✭✭✭✭

    I agree, with the criteria refresh I read over the new texts, and the major thing I can't away with was the same, getting away from categorical accept/reject and just judging every individual suggestion on it's own merits. Yet still the categorical threads and discussions continue.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That comment was about shopping malls themselves being poi, not maps of the mall being poi

  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    Yes and it also needs an anchor. Group of stores no, info board yes. It’s fairly a black and white clarification from Giffard. Not sure why folks are struggling so mightly with this. A POI needs an anchor, info boards, info maps, directory, etc. all make excellent anchors. You have to understands what the anchor represents.

    Think about a trail marker. Is a trail marker a POI or is what the trail marker represents the POI and the marker is the anchor. Critical reasoning skills are crucial here.

    Hopefully that helps.

  • Ochemist-INGOchemist-ING Posts: 355 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would you use that same logic to argue that every one of the 10-20+ generic, identical store maps that many large malls have should also be eligible, or would you limit it to a single anchor-point map?

  • X0bai-PGOX0bai-PGO Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The more I read the more I’m in favor of these maps. Have you guys even been to a mall in the last ten or twelve years? What you’re describing is pre-2008, and they haven’t been the same since. Many of their decorative elements (fountains, art) have been removed rather than renovated; what play areas survived have been shuttered at least the last two years; and 20 maps?! The biggest mall in my hometown had *four* at its busiest. But people do still go to the mall just to walk, and by that logic, if a hiking trail can have a series of indistinguishable - and impossible to locate on Google - rotting sticks as waypoints every quarter mile, then a shopping mall can have a few similar maps without violating the quality of the database.

  • JSteve0-INGJSteve0-ING Posts: 516 ✭✭✭✭

    I think they are eligible. But in order to be acceptable they either need to be visually unique (not like every other shopping center map) or they need to represent a culturally significant shopping center in a way that nothing else at that location does. In other words, be prepared to sell the map because they are not acceptable just because they are a map of a shopping center.

  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    Even the biggest malls will not have that many, but even if I conceded on that point the would likely be on multiple floors and would end up being with the 20 m radius that would make them appear as duplicates or get auto deleted for proximity or not show up in several games for being in the same cell. There are checks and balances in these games to keep players from just submitting these types of things.

    As for limiting it for a single anchor point it would depend on the info board/map/directory. If they are fairly basic, as in the OP I’d likely not be in favor of multiple in the same mall. If there are several that are visually unique I’d be in favor of allowing more then one.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    But the vast majority of malls/shopping centers will have an entrance and/or entrance sign, those would be the anchors. And the question asked originally wasn't do shopping mall maps make good anchors, they were they eligible

  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    The OP asked if maps, like the example, are eligible. Using the same logic of a trail marker or info board at a trail head, they are eligible because they would make excellent anchor spots for a mall, st!p mall, shopping plaza, etc. Just like trail markers or trail map make a great anchor for the trail. To your point, could there be a better anchor? Sure, but that wasn't the question. The OP asked specifically about maps, which Giffard has answered yes, as an anchor.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thats not how that works, the trail markers are pois themselves. An anchor would be like using picnic table for a picnic area, or a swung set for the picture in a playpark. Maps themselves of shopping malls are not eligible, yes, they can be used for the picture of the mall, but they themselves are not inherently eligible which is what he was asking. If you were to say these maps are eligible, then people would try to get every map in a mall through

  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    You are using circular reasoning to try and make a point. This has been discussed at length, trail markers make good POI's because they are on a trail. Trails promote exercise and the trail marker is an excellent anchor for the wayspot. Without a trail would a random sign in the middle of the woods make a good POI? Can I just go make random signs and pace them in the woods behind my house and call them POI's? Please use some common sense. This has been reiterated by Niantic time and time again and is quite literally the rational for accepting trail markers.

    Regarding this example, Giffard has clearly stated that an info board for a group of stores is a good anchor for a POI. Its quite literally the exact same rational. The matter has been decided. Not sure why you are having trouble making the connection but there is literally nothing else to be said here. I've provided you the direct quote from Niantic and some choose to still reject it. 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You've literally just confirmed what I said, that trail markers are pois on their own, not that they are anchors for the trail itself, an anchor is a one off thing. That's why I gave examples of other anchors, don't even know why you are arguing with me on that one there if you actually agree with what I said


    No he didn't, he said malls can be OK, and I agree a map.can be used for an anchor of a mall, what cant be done is saying a map itself is a poi on its own, which is what the op was asking. If the op was to submit the picture of the map and call it "fakeplace mall", thereby making it the poi of the mall, then thays acceptable. If the op submitted the picture of the map and said "fakeplace mall map" (or fakeplace mall map 1) then that isn't acceptable, as he is saying the map is the ppi, not the mall itself

  • JSteve0-INGJSteve0-ING Posts: 516 ✭✭✭✭

    what cant be done is saying a map itself is a poi on its own

    A map definitely can be wayspot on its own. Maps are often pieces of artwork and convey spatial information in a way that other media cannot. Here is an example of one that I submitted and that was properly approved

    That being said, mall directory maps are often fairly generic and the information they convey is limited. Shopping center directories and maps, like most categories of objects nominated, should be evaluated on their own merits. They should not be summarily dismissed by a binary decision of "no, mall maps are not acceptable wayspots because they are mall maps"

    Mall maps promote exploration by disclosing locations of points of interest within the mall and they do not meet any rejection criteria. They are eligible and should be given a value between 2-5 stars based on what you as an informed reviewer think about the map.

  • CipherBlakk-PGOCipherBlakk-PGO Posts: 309 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm a bit puzzled over how everyone here distinguishes mall maps (and anything else, really) as either an anchor for a larger thing like a mall or a trail, vs a POI in its own right.

    I see one example saying you should call the map, "mall map," to indicate the map itself is the POI. If you call it "the mall," you supposedly indicate it's actually the anchor for the mall. But I would say that labeling a map as the mall itself is an incorrect and misleading title and might reject on that basis. Seems to me that either some things are obvious anchors without needing clarification (maps and trail markers are anchors enough for the spaces they mark), or you can talk about the larger space in the description instead of talking about the POI marker itself. But you still label the POI correctly. For example, I would label a mall map as an actual map, but in the description I would primary talk about the mall. In the supporting info, I might explicitly say that the map is intended to be an anchor for the mall.

    Whatever the POI, it comes down to the submitter's choice in what they intend it to be (anchor or standalone), and they just need to convey that.

    However, submitters who don't read the forums (which is most people) aren't going to know the concept of an anchor point. Reviewers might have no idea what you mean if you talk about an anchor point. Are you still going to reject a mall map, knowing it to be a valid mall anchor, if the anchor concept isn't somehow conveyed in the submission? As a submitter, how do you convey the anchor concept so people don't reject on the basis of the map not being interesting?

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ..... I never said maps cant be, I said mall maps can't be their own poi. That's been brought up in previous clarifications. They are not eligible because they don't encourage exploration, a map in a city or a park you might look at to see what's about, that encourages exploration, a map in a mall, 99% of the time, are looking for the specific shop or food court or whatever. There's a massive difference

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