Most disgusting rejections of the last days

Raachermannl-INGRaachermannl-ING Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭

The reviewers during the last days did a very bad job. So there is need to do something. Education is very often asked for. Imho oppinion my examples here are worth strikes for those, who rejected.


Death march memorial

Maybe it's difficult to read the inscription in that resolution, but in full size it's easy:

Inscription: Ehrendes Gedenken den 41 KZ-Häftlingen[,] die von Faschisten im April 1945 ermordet wurden

Literally translated: Honourable rememberance for 41 Concentration camp prisones, that were murdered by fascists during april 1945

Description translated literally:

Southern memorial plate of a threepartite memorial complex, that is reminiscent of the deathmarch of 800 prisoners of concentration camp Flossenbürg's subcamp Mülsen St.Micheln. The march led to the ore mountains. On their way were 83 prisoners murdered by SS troops at this place, because they weren't able to walk any longer.

(source for this: https://www.eric-dietrich.de/2020/04/17/die-opfer-mahnen-todesmarsch-jaehrt-sich-zum-75-mal/ )

Supporting text:

one of 3 parts of a big memorial at this place, ATTENTION there is another memorial plaque that looks very similar to this one; NO DUPLICATE; memorial is for 83 concentration camp prisoners, that were killed in this area by SS troops during april 1945; so there are these two memorial plaques, that are each for half of the killed people. most detailed website about this: https://www.eric-dietrich.de/2020/04/17/die-opfer-mahnen-todesmarsch-jaehrt-sich-zum-75-mal/

Location: slightly south of https://intel.ingress.com/intel?ll=50.603545,12.682789&z=17&pll=50.603545,12.682789


So what do these reviewing m0r0ns expect.....

Those, who clicked Orientation: Shall I stand on the memorial for taking a picture without any angle? How about piety? This is in fact something like a mass burial site ....

Those, who clicked bad photo: where do they find any rejection criteria? Is it for them a bad photo, because the inscription is difficult to read? They simply have to click on that picture. It's easy to read then.



Late-Medieval mine as UNESCO world heritage

50.5751462,12.7158644

Supporting statement is roughly the description in english:

former staff building of Europes first Kaolin mine. This led to the European invention of porcelain, that is made from Kaolin. Mine built during 1698 and used until the early 20th century. Today this building is used like a small hotel and the area is starting point of an educational trail about mining history. See the lots of infoboards around there. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wei%C3%9Ferdenzeche_St._Andreas


So I didn't mention in my submission, that it's part of the Unesco world heritage, since I prefer objective information about the object. That it is Unesco world heritage is only a consequence of this and imho information of 2nd order. This place is more than obviously wayspot worthy and should be totally fool-proof. Lots of infoboards around the house, lots of inscriptions at the walls. Google marker given, and a noteworthy wikipedia article. How sloppy can a reviewer be, to not see that this is a 6* candidate?



Unique infoboard is short in uniqueness ....

This infoboard is made for the special house, that it is placed on. (a former printery, so it tells about its history)

It's part of a series of infoboards, easy to see because of the number 6B on the bottom. Nethertheless the serious of infoboards is totally unique: all boards are for special old houses of the town. The town crest and towns name are on top of them.

The other way of interpretation of the uniqueness-criterion is, how easy is it to spot the candidate. This infoboard is colorful af ...


Problem might be, that a similar infoboard (the one with No.6A is nearby). Are the reviewers to lazy to click on the images to see, that this is a different one?


-----------


So @NianticTintino @NianticGiffard please do something, that the reviewers don'T do their job so sloppy and shallow. Education ..... ban those who rejected.

It's simply disgusting, that even such 5*-no-brainer can get rejected.

And further ..... why is it even possible, that subcategory uniqueness can lead to a rejection?

AMA answerfor question 8 from September AMA doesnt say so.

Comments

  • VladDraco-PGOVladDraco-PGO Posts: 210 ✭✭✭

    First one is clear 1* for me.

    If it's in a memorial complex as you said, it's a place for memory not for playing games. Be respectful of the one who died, as you said yourself "How about piety? This is in fact something like a mass burial site ...."

  • rodensteiner-INGrodensteiner-ING Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If i upgrade something, it gets shredded. I only upgrade garden gnomes now, so i wont be in tears anymore.


  • Raachermannl-INGRaachermannl-ING Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At least this would be a reasonable rejection reason, not like the two pretextual pretenses, that I got. I wouldn't complain about that reason, although I disagree about it, because of a long list of reasons:

    • sensitve location is a very weak rejection reason with shallow description and exception rules especially for gravestones. The German wayfarer community further has the unwritten law, that the importance of special candidates outdoes this rejection reason by far. Example: village churches are often surrounded by a historical graveyard. That's not enough reason to reject something significant like a church. Same applies to world war memorials, if they are located at graveyards.
    • this memorialsite is located in the middle of a forest at a hiking trail. That's a place of daily life - you'll meet there joggers, hikers and mushroom collectors around there. Looking at a smartphone is no disgrace there in general. There are lots of other Holocaust related wayspots at normal places of the daily life out there, for example thousands of Stolpersteine (literally stumbling stones), small brass plaques in the pavement in front of the houses victims of the nazi regime. Considering all these memorials of daily-life-places as invalid for being wayspots could be seen as an act of censorship or denial, and in the end holocaust denial is considered to be a crime in Germany.
    • sensitive locations should imply, that people there are aware, that they are at a sensitive place. If you are at a graveyard, you entered a gate and you know, that you are at a graveyard and how to behave there. In Germany there are usually rules at the entrance, including being quiet and no playing (although child play should be originally ment). What happens here at this place? You walk a forest road without any hint. Then there is the memorial area, where only the central monument object is grabbing attention (intel link). At that point in time you already passed and most likely missed one of the two plaques, since they are under big needle trees. You see a big stele with a red sowjet star, that is not unusual in the area of the sowjet occupation zone and former GDR. You have to look closer there to understand, what really happened at this place. What I had in mind, when we went there: I knew, that there is a "strange sowjet memorial" in that forest, but my original aim was the search for the entrances of medieval mine shafts nearby, that I saw in special maps. We didnt find any mineshaft, so I explored the "strange memorial", and then I saw the red triangle under the sowjet star at the photo disc, and that was the point, when I realised, that this is not, what I thought it is - I expected an usual world war memorial with a bit of sowjet glorification on it. The red triangle is the symbol for the nazi **** marches. I didn't know, that such a **** march happened there. I knew that symbol only from **** marches in the region around concentration camp Buchenwald, 100km away. So we explored the memorial site closer, found the first memorial plate, then we reached the central stele and read the infoboard next to it: that told us, that the onld mineshafts, that we were searching for, were used as the burial sites for the corpses. This leads directly to:
    • wayspots there raise the awareness for the topic: this site is not well known in public. It's not a shame, that I didn't know about this special **** march and the impact of that memorial. Even wikipedia doesnt have this deathmarch in its list of **** marches. The title of the already existing wayspot is fitting but understating. So we wanted to bring these two plaques online. One was accepted already. To somehow circumvent the understatement we placed "KZ-Häftlinge" (concentration camp prisoner) into the titles. That's the part, that shall bring the attention to other unaware players like us.
    • What could happen at this place ingame? It's in the forest, accessible only for pedestrians and bikers. Nothing will happen there. Three wayspots, that you can't reach all the same time, dont cause groups of players loafing around there. The town has a spa garden, that is a way better place to grind. Even if a gym will appear there. Some hikers will take the gym sometimes, do sometimes low star raids, maybe the wayspots are in the ingame view range of a housing area .... so maybe remote raids might happen. And that's it. No reason to construct a drama, or to compare it to way harder examples of sensitive locations.
  • ArborAndy-PGOArborAndy-PGO Posts: 61 ✭✭

    The Cemetery my family is in, almost every road side plaque is a stop. Many cemeteries are. If the plaque is signification like a historical figure or battle then I would approve it.

  • Hitchhiker79-PGOHitchhiker79-PGO Posts: 26 ✭✭

    I had the info board "Buchdruckerei" for the evaluation and I accepted it because it contains historical information about the building. I don't need to be surprised if my rating goes down again. In my opinion, Niantic should reintroduce the old wayfarer test.

  • Jeroenix-INGJeroenix-ING Posts: 146 ✭✭✭

    Hi @Raachermannl-ING

    When you take your photo really zoomed in and the text becomes barely readable, people looking at the photo would WANT to read it off of that picture and get frustrated when they can't. If those little things I see all across the text are twigs and branches, I suggest you clean it before taking the picture. Also, you say: "This is in fact something like a mass burial site ....". If it is, don't be surprised if the location is deemed sensitive or inappropriate to reviewers, even though YOU think otherwise. Shorten the title to "War memorial" or something short and catchy, and explain in the description WHAT it commemorates.

    Of the 'Buchdruckerei' info sign: Yes, the reject reason is wrong, but that's a very common phenomenon in Wayfarer. There's another issue with it: it COULD get rejected on basis of PRP next time, as it looks very much like it's hanging on the side of a residential house (hard to see with photo angle, but I see what looks like a garage door). You mention that these are "special houses" but if these historically significant buildings are occupied by private residents, it actually should be rejected. Little reviewers do, as the sign is clearly made to be readable by the general public.

    Oh, and don't call your reviewers 'm0r0ns'. This is a crowd-sourced venture, and nothing is as black and white as your think. Instead try to understand why they made the decisions, as your next submission's crowd might think likewise. When submitting, think like a very critical reviewer.

  • Raachermannl-INGRaachermannl-ING Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That infoboards needs an upgrade. That town is only 1km on the wrong side of a Lvl 6 cell border. South: review within few days ..... North: review within few years.

    Imho this should be Nia's priority 1 to fix. Treat submissions equally in the sense, that they reach similar timescales for reaching a result.


    Did you read my previous post? I wouldnt complain about rejection reason "sensitive". But not a single person clicked on it - the mail (that usually has up to 3 rejection reasons in it) had also only the two picture-related reasons given. So only these shallow reasons, that indicate only the laziness of the reviewers.

    Further: According to own expieriences, from own submission over the years as well from reviewing, the texts from such metal plaques are never readable in the compressed pictures. To read the stuff, you need in 95% of the cases the full size picture. So evry reviewer, who doesnt do this, should be thrown out of the system.

    I cleaned it in the sense, that I've blown away most of the fir needles. Those, that stayed, were too wet ...

    Title "war memorial" ..... are u srs? Would you like to find 3 portals in a row all named "war memorial"? This is not a simple war memorial. The incident here is war related, but that title wouldnt fit. The monument object, that has a more general title is the one in the middle.


    Concerning the infoboard:

    Of course the house is today used as a residence, but nethertheless it's no case for the PRP rules. So back then it was groundfloor business, upper floors home of the owners. Nowadays the businesses in such houses is replaced by appartments. So its multi occupancy. My grandparents own a similar house, also close to a centre of a small medieval town core. There are two normal residential appartments in there, further an insurance office and holiday appartments. So not PRP according to Nia.

    Usually PRP is only used for new built single family homes, and thats okay. In dubio pro reo. It's not as clear is it is for example in the US ....

  • VladDraco-PGOVladDraco-PGO Posts: 210 ✭✭✭

    A few words to support @Raachermannl-ING .

    Clear problem of reviews on upgrade here. None of these should have been rejected under the reason given. But the system is broken on places so you need to use upgrade if you want a nomination to be treated in less than a year. But this way you have reviewers from far away.

    (Personal word : sorry for those who don't understand my first message and disagree. When I said it is a sensible place for me, I mean FOR ME. I'm not reviewing in Germany, I always skip when I have nomination from other countries. As @Raachermannl-ING said, in Germany the culture is different, and it's why I'm happy to review on places I know and where I leave, not places far away I never heard of, and don't know the culture)

    For example I'm shocked in the expression Nazi **** march, the sensible word is ****. Really Niantic OO

  • Jeroenix-INGJeroenix-ING Posts: 146 ✭✭✭

    @Raachermannl-ING

    Yes I did "read your previous post", that's why I replied "that's a very common phenomenon in Wayfarer". You're one in a long line of submitters to come complaining about it in the forums. It's not going to change anytime soon, focus on improving your nomination instead.

    I have nothing else to comment about the picture: I stand by my opinion on that, and the reviewer might have done the same thing. Clean it up, and try again. You have to eliminate all possible rejection reasons. Like I said: think of the most fussy person you can imagine, and work with that. It'll improve the quality of your nomination.

    I said "Shorten the title to War Memorial or something short and catchy. Obviously not every memorial should have that title! The point here was: your chosen title might be a bit long.


    On the PRP thing, I can tell you unequivocally: you're wrong. The PRP guideline is not "only used for new built single family homes", this guideline also applies to historical (even monumental) buildings that are now occupied by single families, used as their home (I suspect even for semidetached houses) plus the stuff that's painted on their walls or hanging from their canopies. The PRP guideline absolutely supersedes the historically significant eligibility rule.

    Whether or not this applies to THAT house only a local would know. But I'm telling you (again: think of the most fussy reviewer!) it's not clearly visible from the photograph, and usually Germany doesn't have much streetview imagery. If I look at that photo in that street, "apartment building" doesn't spring to mind. I just gave you a heads up on that.

  • X0bai-PGOX0bai-PGO Posts: 429 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Didn’t we have this thread? I’m sure I did a bunch of research on that Huthaus, and I thought I commented that it wasn’t tagged on Google and looked like PRP with a handmade sign out up for the purpose of making a POI. Or was that another building that looked the same?

  • FurtadoV-PGOFurtadoV-PGO Posts: 10 ✭✭

    I think you should take a look at Niantic's guideline. It's uptaded time to time... You are definitely wrong about this...

  • Raachermannl-INGRaachermannl-ING Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can't compare this to a normal grave. Imho it's a legit decision to use "sensitive location" on this nomination, since Niantic has geofences around concentration camps, so that there are no spawns and wayspots. (At least they had ..... since Lightship they are messed up)....

    Such extreme cases including mass murder or genocide history aren't considered in the normal rules.

    My oppinion from an earlier post in short: 3 wayspots in the forest don't produce crowds of players loafing around. Good wayspots and good texts raise awareness for the location and the topic in general. I value this for that special case higher than the "sensitive" arguments.

  • FurtadoV-PGOFurtadoV-PGO Posts: 10 ✭✭
  • Raachermannl-INGRaachermannl-ING Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know, but th point is, that "sensitive location" could be a valid point of view to declare it to be ineligible, since the rules about gravestones and so on don't cover this special case.

    In the end no reviewer did that in that case, but I wouldn't complain about this single rejection reason.

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