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Should using IITC to game the waypoint system be used.

Latzstar-PGOLatzstar-PGO Posts: 15 ✭✭

@NianticCasey-ING

Can you clarify the use of IITC tools to justify the edit of a Waypoint to move it into another cell.

This has stemmed from a conversation on the Global Wayfarer page on Facebook where an Admin is actively encouraging the use of tools to manipulate the locations of Waypoints.

The waypoint in question is positioned in the centre of the POI, but there is another Waypoint in this cell, i have screenshots of the conversation alongside tagging Niantic Support in the conversation.

The original poster wants to move the Waypoint using the Cell data to another cell to enable the 2nd waypoint to go live.

Happy to DM you the screenshots and thread details.

The main question, is should the tools be used in this was to game the system to create additional pokestops and gyms?

The 2nd question, should these tools be encouraged by a global page admin on a page that Niantic Support is a member of?

I look forward to a response, as these edits are filling up the wayfarer review system.

Answers

  • Latzstar-PGOLatzstar-PGO Posts: 15 ✭✭

    I know the answer is pretty simple in this case id leave in its original place as its not incorrect.

    My question is targeted to Niantic, who by association and membership are condoning the use and manipulation of the cell system.

    Im probably ranting but it means theres absolute trash to review.

  • Latzstar-PGOLatzstar-PGO Posts: 15 ✭✭

    You got it, will check the other thread.

  • Rostwold-INGRostwold-ING Posts: 172 ✭✭✭✭

    There are more complex cases too though, where more guidance might be useful. Location edits can be equally accurate, but designed to create an additional stop.

    IITC can also be used to 'cherry pick' which part of large things should be nominated for a desired effect in-game. For example when nominating a football pitch choosing to use the photo and location of one set of goalposts might create a Gym but choosing the other goalpost would not.

  • GearGlider-PGOGearGlider-PGO Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020

    That facebook group is notorious for banning people that correct the admins with the guidelines when the admins are telling someone to approve something. Where's that Ingress Forum thread about it?

    It got so bad Casey had to step in to correct them and make sure they knew what they were doing, which only resulted in them bragging about how Casey talks to them.

    Post edited by GearGlider-PGO on
  • NorthSeaPoet-INGNorthSeaPoet-ING Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think someone posted that Ingress thread in another thread.

    But yeah, I'm banned from that group now because I was constantly arguing with Jamie Kay and refusing to accept anything he said as gospel.

    The whole group acts like they know better than Niantic and it's really sad that people trust their word more than someone from NIA.

  • TheAuraStorm-INGTheAuraStorm-ING Posts: 92 ✭✭✭

    The Global Reviewers Facebook group is a toxic hub of misinformation. One of the admins, who I won’t name, they don’t deserve the free advertising, exhibits all the negative stereotypes of Pokémon Go players on wayfarer.

    Members are actively encouraged to download Ingress, to gain access to IITC, to be able to see the cells, regardless of whatever silent acceptance Niantic has, this is still against the TOS.

    The criteria and guidelines are completely ignored. I was recently removed from the group after someone was proud that they got a Scout Hut, (A K12 nomination), through. When I explained that this isn’t appropriate and provided evidence of the appropriate AMAs, my comments were removed and I was removed from the group.

    I joined the group to help educate on the criteria, we are working to build a network of high quality points of interest in the real world, not any old **** that gets through. In hindsight, I’m glad I was removed from the group for my own mental health, the amount of Ignorance and entitlement is disgusting.

    There is blatant examples of location edit abuse, where the Wayspot is on the POI, but could be shifted to be in another cell. This behaviour is not only tolerated, but actively encouraged, and anyone that is true to the criteria and Niantic’s guidelines is ostracised for being ‘Ingress player’, our game is quite literally being used as an insult.

    Other forms of TOS violations are also actively encouraged, multi accounting for extra submissions, multiple Ingress accounts and spoofing to locations to collect key to upvote photos to manipulate the PoGo algorithm for gym promotion, account sharing so a player who isn’t able to make nominations can use someone else’s account to do so.

    I would have hoped that Niantic support being in the group would be beacon of hope to prevent such things, but it’s being used as a status symbol to add legitimacy to their actions.

    One of the admins, who has an Ingress background, is the only example of what you would expect from a admin of this group, the criteria is followed, but one person out of a team of several that do the opposite is like sound in a vacuum.

    I don’t care what game people play or the background of the player, my respect is earned by following the criteria, and reviewing properly, and submitting high quality nominations that meet the criteria. There is a worrying quantity of people that shouldn’t be allowed within a mile of the network, and have now caused irreparable damage to it, with fake nominations submitted, inappropriate nominations now live.

    Its not all Pokémon Go players, there are some that have integrated well with other reviewers and have, and will continue to make beneficial contributions to the network, but there are a great many that are hellbent on exploiting and encouraging / facilitating others to do so as well.

    Pokemon Go’s core framework, with its use of S2 cells and ease of exploit is why I believe that its community, as a whole, is not ready for Wayfarer. This core framework needs to be overhauled completely into such a system that cannot be exploited by unnecessary edits.

    only when the community has less of a reason to 5* every candidate, will the majority be able to appreciate Niantic’s goal of a high quality network of real world points of interest, will we see less inappropriate nominations in schools, military bases, hospitals etc. go live.


    TL;DR Wayfarer Global Reviewers is a toxic hub of misinformation, TOS violations and bullying, and should be terminated without delay.

  • NorthSeaPoet-INGNorthSeaPoet-ING Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TheAuraStorm-ING isn't saying that it's all PoGo Wayfarers, just a large enough quantity to cause a lot of damage.

    I won't try deny that abuse of the system happened long before PoGo either but currently, the abuse is becoming more noticeable but this could be down to any number of reasons.

    However, the fact that the Global Wayfarer group are using Niantic Support being in the group as a means of making themselves look legitimate and the lack of input for NIA Support in that group does need to be addressed because it isn't helping the situation at all.

  • YouLostAStar-INGYouLostAStar-ING Posts: 280 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looking at these AMA questions and answers it’s been implied that requesting edits for cell reasons is bad but doesn’t go as far as explicitly telling people not to do it.

    so @NianticCasey-ING can we get a 100% definitive answer that people should definitely not use edits only for the reason of manipulating cells

  • Sugarstarzkill-PGOSugarstarzkill-PGO Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Asking them to clarify this is kind of a catch 22 though. From what I've been told, Niantic has been pretty adamant about NOT acknowledging the S2 system. This might be why the kind of dance around the topic and are vague about it. Although it's pretty silly- people clearly figured it out long ago.

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