Nominations marked Duplicates, but still not approved for either nomination
Erin1469-PGO
Posts: 11 ✭✭
I have submitted three nominations for locations that fit all the criteria. Each one has been rejected and marked as being a duplicate. If it is a valid nomination, either mine or the previous nomination by another trainer ought to be approved, but neither is. So why are these nominations both rejected? If the first nomination did not meet the criteria, then it ought to be deleted from the database so if someone else like me submits a correct nomination it does not get marked as a duplicate. This does not make sense and is very discouraging. Why should I keep wasting my time submitting nominations that are valid just to have them rejected because a previous submission of that site was not submitted correctly?
Comments
You are not submitting things to become Pokestops. You are submitting thing to become Wayspots in the Lightship database. Not all Wayspots will be used in Go. If you submit something that is already a Wayspot, then it will be marked as a duplicate, even if that Wayspot isn't used in whatever game you submitted from. When you go to submit in Go it will open all map that shows all Wayspot in a small area around you. You need to check this map to see if the thing you want to submit is already there.
To add to what @spiesr-ING says, the emails for a duplicate used to specifically say that it was marked as a duplicate, but now they say it was rejected, which whilst technically correct, is also bad wording. Only Wayfarer will show the duplicate tag.
Being a duplicate is a rejection reason in and of itself. It doesn't mean that your nomination meets any other rejection criteria, and as such, if the wayspot didn't already exist in the database, then your submission of it likely wouldn't have been rejected. Unfortunately for you though, it already exists as a valid wayspot in the Lightship database, and as such that means it likely didn't meet the inclusion rules for your game of choice (which, in Pokémon Go, the inclusion rules are that a wayspot will become a Pokéstop (or Gym under the right conditions) if it's in a level 17 S2 cell that isn't already occupied by another Pokéstop or Gym).
I appreciate what you both are saying, but find this not really answering my question or solving my dilemma. I play Pokemon GO and submit via that app and play no other version of Pokemon. I have no clue what the Lightship database is and the difference between a Pokestop and Wayspot, nor do I have a clue what a level 17 S2 cell is. I followed their guidelines when submitting my nominations. The Pokestops I am nominating are not on the map in Pokemon GO but meet the criteria to be one that they issue. So what I hear you saying is that there are other hidden rules or criteria that are not explained in Pokemon GO and another map that I cannot see used in another iteration of Pokemon and if my nomination is on this other map then it could be marked as a Duplicate by Niantic. So I could be following Pokemon GO issued guidelines 100% but be shot down every single nomination I submit because of unexplained rules and criteria and an alternate map that I have no access to. So explain to me again why I should waste my time sending in submissions? Give me ALL the guidelines and access to the map my submissions are being compared to and explain why a Wayspot or Pokestop is valid in one iteration of Pokemon yet not in another. It feels like someone is changing the rules in the middle of the game and it is very discouraging.
The Lightship database is Niantic's full database of points of interest (wayspots). When you make a submission through any of Niantic's games (currently that's limited to Ingress or Pokémon Go), you're submitting a wayspot for consideration to be added to this database. You're not actually submitting a Pokéstop, and the wording in Pokémon Go does need changing to make this clear - this is something Niantic are aware of and are planning on changing.
If your submission gets accepted, then you'll get an email telling you that your nomination will take up to 48 hours to appear, but that not all nominations will appear in all Niantic games. This is due to the fact that each game that populates its map from the database has its own rules when it comes to the allowed density of wayspots (too many wayspots in a small area doesn't make for good gameplay as you can never tap on the correct thing).
Things you can do that will help you if you're submitting in future:
1) download the Ingress app, create an account, and then pass the tutorial. Once you've passed the tutorial, you can delete the app if you don't want to play Ingress. Your Ingress account will grant you access to the Intel Map (which I'll link to at the end of this comment) which can show you the majority of wayspots in the database (but not necessarily all of them). You can use this to help you check if Niantic already has something on their database.
2) whenever you go somewhere to make a submission and you press the button to start the process, it'll open up a map which you're meant to use to place the pin for your submission. This map will also show you all wayspots within a hundred metres of so of where you are stood. Things that are in Pokémon Go will show up as a Pokéstop icon, and things that aren't in Pokémon Go will show up as a Wayfarer icon. This should let you know if what you want to submit already exists.
3) learn about S2 cells (level 17 and level 14 cells are the important ones). This will help you better understand why some things do appear in Pokémon Go and why others don't.
I appreciate your more detailed answer. It gives me a better understanding. The Pokemon GO app does not explain all this and makes it sound simple when it really isn't. What sounds user-friendly, isn't so friendly from my point of view. Like several other things in Pokemon Go and Wayfarer, things are not coordinated well. I have submitted many updated pictures of existing Pokestops that have been reviewed and accepted as well as updated descriptions on some, yet those do not show up on my Wayfarer portal as Contributions.
I completely understand your frustration; the system is very confusing, there are indeed hidden rules, and things are poorly worded. The addition of nearby wayspots on the Pokemon submission map is at least a step in the right direction, but there is still a lot to be done to clarify things.
And yep, photos and description edits do not appear in Wayfarer, despite confusing wording in the emails. Hopefully that will change soon-ish.
Unfortunately, this will make it less likely I will participate in submitting nominations and updates. Niantic needs to get their act together and make this whole process transparent, without hidden rules. And give credit for ALL submissions including updates to pictures and descriptions.
Niantic currently has a bug that accepted pictures aren't being shown in any game. They will show up eventually. (I know, because they've had this bug before, and did upload all of them.)
When a nomination is marked a duplicate, its photo is added to the existing wayspot. Except, you know, the bug.
It IS unclear, and frustrating. BUT, that feeling you get, when something you nominated comes live, is really really nice.
Yes, when one gets approved it feels good. BUT ... when one gets shot down it feels lousy. If a place is NOT a Pokestop in Pokemon GO and you submit it per their instructions and then you are told it is a duplicate it leaves a terrible impression in my mind. I do not care if it is on some other game's map that I'm not playing and knew nothing about, it is not on the map in the game I am playing. Either you want people to submit new stops or you don't. If the directions are inaccurate or incomplete, then fix them; then I will follow them, but do not penalize me for following the directions as they are written.
That's not true.
Now when you submit a Waypoint via Pokémon, you can see the existing Waypoints so if you still submit them you are doing it while knowing this is a duplicate.
If a location is not a Pokemon GO Gym or Stop and is not on the map in the game and I submit it following the guidelines then it should be approved. A Waypoint apparently is a different animal used in Ingress which I don't play and don't want to play. The system as explained to me here is NOT how it is explained in the Pokemon GO app. If I had not posted here I would never have known about Ingress or Waypoints and special cells, etc. Make submitting nominations transparent, with no hidden rules. Why is that expecting too much? If I cannot see the Ingress Map while playing Pokemon GO, how do you expect me to know what's on it? I submitted the church where I attend service to become a Pokemon GO Stop, every other church within 5 miles is a Stop, yet I am told my church is a "Duplicate" and is rejected. Sorry, but that is BS! I submitted a Public Library in the town where I live and the same thing. So these are valid stops, waypoints, or whatever term you want to call them in one game but aren't valid in another one? That's nonsense. Just admit the system is confusing at best and needs improvement.
If you are trying to submit your Church when attending service, you should really pay attention to the map on the PoGo submission screen. This will show every ingame Stop / Gym within 100m or so of where you are sitting, plus any other Waypoints in the system that are not showing in PoGo. Tap any of these Stops or Waypoint symbols and the name of the stop and photo will appear.
So, if your map shows a stop in the middle of the screen close to your location, and clicking on it show it to be your church, then you know the church is aleady in the system and any nomination you submit will be flagged as a Duplicate. Simples.
The question is NOT if it is in the system, it is more which system is it in. I play Pokemon GO. If my nomination is on the Ingress Map I could care less. I am NOT playing that game. Every other church in the area is a Pokestop. Pokemon GO should have its own map apart from Ingress. If all other churches in the area (including churches that are closed) qualify to be a Pokestop it makes ZERO sense that mine isn't one. Can't anyone see that? In Niantic logic, a waypoint and a Pokestop are different animals and if a place qualifies for one classification it may not qualify to be the other one. Yet this is NOT explained in the Pokemon GO app directions. Are people supposed to know all these hidden rules by Osmosis? If you insist on using the same map in both games, then make all waypoints or Pokestops and Gym the same in both games instead of having these complicated rules.
Thing is, ingress did not steal your pokestop. If ingress dies, portals will not be converted into missing pokestops. Pokemon team did not ask ingress team if it's ok to borrow portal or it should stay ingress only, or it should be added to catan, or harry potter, or metal transformers. Simply pretend ingress does not exist.
So the real problem is - pokemon team does not use all accepted wayspots. And they don't want to. They stick to "spacing rules", that's their way to balance the game. Let's say, pokemon team needs to decide how much loot players should get from one pokestop, and they can deal with the situation when city players have 100 times more pokestops than rural players, but if city players have 1000 times more pokestops - the game will be completely unbalanced. Just a guess, they did not care to explain details. Again, has nothing to do with ingress. And "separate map" won't help either, when the cell is occupied.
What you can do about it - basically, you learned about cells, and now you can check in advance - will pokemon team use the nomination, or the cell is occupied, and wayspot will be ignored. Check in advance, and if you don't care about other games - don't submit. Or, when you can submit different corners of a basketball court for example - check which corner is in the free cell, submit that one. Help other players to learn. And I'm not trying to defend niantic - they should have shared these rules, in my opinion.
This will be my last post on this topic since Niantic does not seem to care if the process is difficult to understand and very obtuse. The overcrowding of Pokestops I can agree with, but I live in a rural area. Several of the nominations I have sent in are not close together so it seems there isn't a good reason to not allow them to be Pokestops. IF level 17 and level 14 cells are so important to determine the validity of a nomination how come it is not explained in the Pokemon GO app? It feels like I am trying to play Monopoly on a Chutes and Ladders board. Use some of the rules from one game in another game but don't tell players ahead of time and wonder why they can't get more people to participate. All I'm asking is to make the submission rules CLEAR including all the parts about overcrowding, different cell types, etc. A person should not have to post a question here to get the straight scoop on how to nominate a Pokestop (Waypoint) successfully and avoid all the unwritten or unexplained reasons a submission might be denied.