Temporary Little Free Library Scam
ChicagoRay312-PGO
Posts: 68 ✭✭✭
This one had me laughing tonight. The thing has pegs on it LOL! I know that there isn’t much doubt this is on residential property. How often do you guys spot fake LFLs?
ChicagoRay312-PGO
Posts: 68 ✭✭✭
This one had me laughing tonight. The thing has pegs on it LOL! I know that there isn’t much doubt this is on residential property. How often do you guys spot fake LFLs?
Comments
I just follow guidelines and deny any on PRP without looking too closely (beyond looking on the map to see it is a single family home the pin is dropped at), so I don't know how many are fake.
I've found a ton. Someone took pictures of legit LFLs (and other things) and then submitted those photos in parks all around the town. Search the forum for Roseville if you want more details.
Little Free Library official map:
I'm leery about LFLs that aren't registered because the process is cheap and easy. The one in the pic above has the old (wooden) official LFL sign on it, which has a unique library number on it that you can check on the map. The newer signs are metal. Unfortunately, I can't see/read the number on that sign.
I am not only sick of my lfl noms being denied for being on private property but hearing people say they should be denied. Misinforming people is why there is always so much confusion about what is and is not acceptable. NianticGifford has stated a million times they are acceptable on private property. I believe last saying this back in an argument in October.
You are completely wrong, please stop submitting coal. You are clogging up the system and slowing down legitimate nominations. Have a nice day.
Mt understanding, though, is that tons of LFL-branded libraries are out there without being registered on the website, as there is no requirement to register them. I would take registration on the website as useful evieence of a library's existence, but I would not take non-registration as any reliable evidence on non-existence.
Do you have a link to any of these so we can see what you mean?
it would appear you need a refresher on the definition of private property. It is common where I live for community members to each own 5% (or less) of a piece of land that is then opened to community members to visit anytime. this is private property that has public access. this private property often takes the form of parks, gardens, roadside shrines, etc. it is not public property, yet meets all wayfarer criteria.
The library in the pic, though, has the official LFL sign, which indicates that it's registered. A search of the area on that map should show where it's supposed to be.
FYI, theft of LFLs not securely affixed has been an issue lately.
@NianticGiffard has clarified that you are outright wrong when it comes to single family homes on Dec. 21st, 2021: "This is straight and clear and I haven't mentioned anywhere that the eligible object can be on private property. It is only acceptable if the object is not interfering with a single-family residence and should be away from it and not even on the edge.
This clarification should be kept in mind - Any object on the property of private residential property is ineligible. As long as it is on the property of private residential property even if accessible from a sidewalk nearby, it should be rejected."
"Not even on the edge." "Even if it is accessible from the sidewalk."
Okay, I see that I was a bit off. The plaque should indicate that they are registered, but they are still under no obligation to add their library to the map. Per littlefreelibrary.org:
Registered Little Free Library stewards must choose to share their locations on this map. Some stewards do not wish to share their locations on this map, and therefore are not listed. A book exchange must also be registered with an official charter sign and number in order to be displayed on this map; if a book exchange is not registered, it is not eligible to be displayed on this map.
Given that, I think my point stands: a library simply not being on the map should not be used as evidence that it is fake. Now, if a library with that charter number is on the map at a completely different location, then I think you have evidence of a problem.
I'd love a link to that statement to pass along to my locals: I've seen a few candidates lately that say things like "NianticXXX says that LFLs are eligible on PRP as long as they're at the end of the driveway" and for shopping plazas "NianticXXX says that shopping plazas are eligible" (generally attached to a nomination for a nondescript **** mall) and the like. Submitters here seize upon every minor Niantic criteria statement in these forums and treat them like divine word, calling for 5* nominations for candidates like the infamous dog waste collection boxes mentioned a while back.
That was my point, that it's one way to verify that it's real. We get so many fake ones or ones on PRP, and here's a tool to provide some evidence for real ones and their actual location.
I just said that I was leery, not that it was an outright rejection. About 80-90% of registered LFLs are on the map, though, because that's the main benefit of registering them. My point was and is that if it has that sign on it, it's most likely on the LFL map, so the reviewer can check where it's supposed to be.
Well if my submissions are straight up coal than all 43 i nominated in February need to be removed since every single one was accepted. 67 straight now. Reviewed over 38,000 and if I am ever unsure I dont just skip it or click a button I hop online and see what the actual people running this say. Sorry unlike you I dont spend my time reading and commenting on others posts and making my own personal opinions all day. I actually play the game.
NianticGiffardOct 18, 2021
Hi @Roli112-PGO! If an eligible object is on the sidewalk or near a sidewalk that is not interfering with a single-family residence then it is acceptable.
No sir you are outright wrong haha
There are also countless people appealing removed LFLs on PRP where Giffard upheld the removal such as https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/122151#Comment_122151
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https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/24534/invalid-wayspot-appeal-lfl
As for the area between the sidewalk and the street on single family home lots as the LFL image in this thread appears to be, that has been further clarified as not okay either.
A quick reminder for people who want to look up past comments about specific things-- I have an unofficial Wayfarer search engine that's open for everyone to use. It's just a Google custom search engine that looks at a few things that are either specific to Wayfarer or have a lot of Wayfarer information. Like all searches you may have to be slightly clever in how you phrase your queries.
http://hosette.com/wayfarer
Thank you. That would have saved me some time tracking down old threads.
I've been seeing this coming for a while and I have seen some anecdotal evidence that it's true. Plus a few experiences myself.
I've seen people saying that they have gotten a LFL on PRP sidewalks approved either through the system or even by appeal. Then somone has come along and submitted them for removal for being on PRP and most have then a few days later been removed.
So if they were appealed, Niantic has both said they are ok and also removed them. This issue is probably only going to get worse.
First, I'd like to say to those submitting LFL in front of people's homes, PLEASE STOP! If it's not your home, it is not your right to make that submission. People who put up LFL are inviting people to "Take a book, and leave a book" that is it. They are not inviting you to stop in front of their home to spin a pokestop or spend 5 minutes doing a raid. They are not inviting you to spend time hacking keys for the portal or creating links. I know we all want places to get more bursters, resonators, pokeballs, and potions, but they have not invited you to do that at your nomination.
If you nominate one in front of your home, what happens if it becomes a Gym or portal? That becomes 'your' gym and your portal right? You are going to defend it right? Somone comes and kicks your mon out or takes out your portal, what do you do? Take it back? Guess what, who ever did take you out is going to figure out pretty quick you live there. Close enough to interact with it anyways. Are you on friendly terms with ALL other players? Have you ever had somone follow you kicking out your mon keeping you from getting coins? Or following you taking out all portals you deploy on?
Having a home stop, gym or portal is not as rosey as you might think.
This is why the PRP rule exists. It's for protection and privacy. I have figured out where people live in Ingress by where they play the most. Good thing I'm not a mean spirited person. I have figured out where other trainers live by how long I can have one of my mon stay in a gym. When they get kicked out by the same player over and over on numerous days after only being there for 3 minutes, guess what, I know they live there (apartment building).
Think of the bigger picture. Yes I wish @NianticDanbocat or @NianticGiffard would really make one hard fast rule on these. Most, probably 90%, are installed by the family that lives in the home behind the LFL. They do it to have a place to pick up a book, or leave a book not to get items in a virtual game. The other 10% are probably at churches, neighborhood parks, and community centers. These are the places where it's now ok for people to gather.
This was a long rant, I hope maybe I have shed some light on why it's NOT OK to place a virtual location in front of somones home. If this gets a few more people to stop submitting them, and gets a few more people to start asking for their removal then I think I have done my good deed today. I'm sorry to those who really want to spin stops all over, you don't have the right to submit near somones Private property.
PS after a few months of Pikmin, Niantic gave us the option of a 'safe zone' when planting flowers, because people were figuring out where others lived because there would be a pile of flowers in front of their home. I don't know what triggered this change but it very well could have been something not very nice. While most people are good people there are monsters in this world. You don't need to let them in.
Seriously @NianticDanbocat or @NianticGiffard please let's put an end to this debate. I think what most people want is what is acceptable and what isn't. It's probably a good idea to use some pictures or illustrations to show what is good or not. I personally will continue to ask for LFL to be removed that are in front of people's homes, my track record on these removals is about 90% so I think what I am doing is the correct way of thinking.
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Nailed it.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion I guess but if I am going to read something that long I am going to say two things and leave it at that. If you put a lfl in your yard is that not inviting the PUBLIC in? Why would they care if 2-3 people were hanging around something that they personally installed for PUBLIC use? My guess is they get a kick out of it when they see. people next it playing and getting used. Of course there are going to be a handful of Nancys out there that do not like people playing games on their phones and call to complain. 2nd If someone lives in an apartment with a nearby gym thats awesome! Especially if they had it nominated and approved thats their baby. Pride and joy. Have to protect their territory. I had tons of stops added to a park in my neighborhood and that is my territory. People know I will claim the gym multiple times a day and to stay out! I must protect my house! And I had never even considered players stalking other players and harassing them because they are fortunate to have a gym within reach of their place and as a punishment out of jealousy for this try their hardest to ruin the game for them by retaliating in anger following them around(creepy) so they can immediately knock them out keeping them from participating/advancing in the game. If someone was following me around doing that I would probably call the police. Thats very odd and very much harassment. Thats all I have to say and if you reply I wont bother to read it because it will be silly nonsense. It is a game relax and enjoy it like the rest of us. It can be fun to play I promise.
@DEMARTIN0-PGO One of the reasons that Niantic doesn't allow things on PRP is that they don't want more lawsuits from homeowners. People tend to get obsessed with the game they are playing and often become oblivious to their environments... like trampling flowers, leaning against a fence so hard they break it, blocking a sidewalk, standing in a driveway that someone is trying to get into... I've even seen game players get indignant and rude when they were asked to let someone pass on a sidewalk.
I know some Ingress players who had couch portals and had some really unsavory, creepy behavior from their opponents. I've gotten some myself, although it's a bit less creepy when you're in a multi-family residence in a downtown area rather than a single-family home.
I can see both sides of things here, but I do have a couple of comments:
Your standard LFL patron probably isn't lurking around quiet suburban streets at 2am in the morning looking for books. You can't say the same thing about a lot of trainers or agents, for whom late-night gym runs and fielding is often the norm, not the exception.
Big raid events in Pokemon GO have historically been able to bring many more than 2-3 people to a gym (in some cases, it's more like dozens or even hundreds.) There is nothing to say that future Lightship-based titles might be able to pull similar crowds, and there's no way to predict how the emphasis on different Wayspots might change over time.
Many owners of LFL may not understand what Niantic titles even are, or why they suddenly have so many people loitering around at all hours (think of an elderly person that just wants local kids to read.) For the less tech-savvy, even physically removing the LFL may not resolve the issue, as it would have to be reported by someone else and inevitably appealed should that report be rejected months down the road.
Gifford also stated that if it is on private residential property, it is not acceptable. I asked this very question in the last AMA since some were taking an earlier comment of his to imply that private residential property was acceptable and Gifford went back and corrected it to clearly state that anything on private residential property is not acceptable.
https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/131736/#Comment_131736
Wow, that sounds like a not cool way to play. Once you have gym coins, there's no need to monopolize a gym. Not sure if you just have high turnover or you're just keeping people from progressing on purpose. It's much better to let a gym turn over periodically over a day so everyone can benefit, and that includes yourself.
Gyms are for everyone. It's not your territory or your baby or anything that belongs to you to protect.
Many excellent points here.
Adding to them, here's a portion of Niantic's Sept 2019 settlement of a U.S. class action lawsuit (by homeowners whose lives were upended when PokeMonGo was new):
(f) Niantic will add specific instructions to the current review form that Niantic’s user-reviewers use to evaluate new POI submissions that direct user-reviewers to increase scrutiny regarding any proposed POI that may be located on or within 40 meters of a private single-family residential property, and POI that appear to be located in neighborhood parks. At a minimum, such instructions will include directions for the user-reviewer to examine the proposed POI using a variety of sources, including but not limited to mapping services maintained by private companies such as Google Maps. After such review, Niantic will use CRE to avoid placing the POI on any property that appears to the reviewer to be a single-family residential property.
(g) Niantic agrees that it shall manually review a statistically significant percentage of new POI submissions via a Niantic employee or contractor for the principal purpose of trying to avoid POI that are more likely to lead to issues with nuisance or trespass
Now that I think about it, they did not agree to explain to nominators, not to nominate single family residences. They only promised to mention it to reviewers, and to do lots of their own reviewing.
@MargariteDVille-ING From a legal perspective it doesn't matter what submitters do as long as wayspots on PRP get filtered out during the review process. Focusing on the review side also simplifies legal compliance.
The "No" private property rule doesn't have anything to do with Stops/Portals from a living resisdence (or as forums say a couch) Otherwise apartment complexes and Entire Cities would be blacked out. Not to mention upteen Parks/Churches that are nestled inside residential neighborhoods.
On the other hand, to share a crazy story... About 4 cars came to raid a church and we were parked across the street at public street parking in front of a houses... when a car pulled into the house.. a woman came out and said quit parking in front of her house and move our cars... I was the one to respond "Its a public street we will be gone in 10 minutes.." she went back to her car and her husbund pokes his head into my passanger side car window and said I heard you were disrespecting my woman... I'll kick your A**... Considering I live in gun crazy America, in multiple states I would have been within my rights to **** him.