Bars and Pubs
Dice3423-ING
Posts: 817 ✭✭✭✭
Hello hello. Love the new site so far. Brings a comfort that it is easy to use similar to the ingress site. What's up with bars and pubs? I feel like reviewers are purposely rejection valid submissions on purpose. They are in the guideline to accept and it is written the exact same way in different areas clarifying and showing them as accept them. Yet they are the most common rejection? I can't enjoy a beer while playing a video game in peace?
First point in help that they are allowed.
Nominations that are images of adult-oriented stores or services
Including liquor stores, adult entertainment, **** ranges, firearm stores, etc. Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable.
"Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable."
That is clear to me they are acceptable, please stop rejecting these. As well as other indoor submissions for the bars like billard tables, bowling games, minigolf, pacman, or art. These places are what made history for decades in your communities as a place to go and enjoy being an adult. They should be given more appreciation locally with accepting things for them. They are more wanted by the community than being yelled at a church. Especially since coronavirus is going on.
Second area that has been updated recently in the January 2020 update.
Pubs and Restaurants that serve alcohol (including mall food courts)
- Acceptable: Eateries that have been featured prominently in travel guides, those with historical or cultural significance, or establishments that are popular tourist destinations. Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable.
- Not acceptable: Generic businesses with no distinguishing feature or significance or those that offer adult services (e.g. liquor stores, adult entertainment, **** ranges, firearm stores that also offer food or snacks).
"Pubs and Restaurants" Are 2 different topics.
"Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable."
Written exactly the same.
My opinions is Local Hot Spots do not need to be world renowned. They are local hot spots because they are fun for the community to play and enjoy the game. It is also nice having an adult conversation about a video game with friends. I don't understand why people assume everything is for kids, yet the average age for current players is adults. Schools grounds aren't allowed. They are a rejection. Day cares are a rejecting. Bars are allowed. It's very simple to me.
Need a valid reason to accept? People are always welcome at bars. Churches you are more than likely going to get the evil eye or a phone call to the police. I bet more people got yelled at being at a church than they any would being at a bar the last few days. Coronavirus the church will raise the eye in fear before a bar would turn away potential customers.
Answers
The wayfarer subreddit wiki has a good article about ways you can increase your chances of getting a hotspot nomination approved.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NianticWayfarer/wiki/hotspot
Why don't you post your rejected nominations here and people can try to give you advice on how to improve it?
I've gotten a few approved before. It's super hard, but not impossible. Just sometimes takes a few tries.
As well as other indoor submissions for the bars like billard tables, bowling games, minigolf, pacman, or art.
The Billard tables? Or the Billard whole building and pub about it?
And the Pacman machine? I'm not sure.
There's literally one of those on every supermarket in my city...
You act like you have a lot of supermarkets in your city. I bet the total is less than your main park you have been working on with approved submissions. How about you share your main park?
If your pub/bar submissions are being rejected, there must be a reason. What are your descriptions like for them? Are you subbing generic chain pubs/bars luke Toby Carvery?
Also, your last paragraph is incredibly judgemental and very much stereotyping of religious people. Yes, some religious people can be like but guess what? The same goes for every other group out there. Bar and pub patrons included.
Quite genuinely interested why this wouldn't be accepted. I've tried three times using photos of outside, 360 to prove it exists, etc. It's a newish brewery with a dedicated social bar cafe attached. Set out of the normal public routes so a place you'd take visitors and so on. Rejected for the usual bizarre meaningless reasons like people in image.
I've seen that one before, I think.
Anyway, the glaring issues with this submission that stand out for me:
• The description. You jumped the the gun by putting in the description that it isn't a generic business. Also the description doesn't really sell it to me.
• There's no signage for the bar, so to a reviewer, this doesn't look to be much. To me, it looks more like a kitchen area.
• The supporting statement doesn't help sell the submission either, you should use that to explain why it meets criteria.
Tl;dr version - better description, photo of a sign for the bar
@nobbynobbs1st-PGO I had written a reply to your comment about that rejected submission but it never posted.
Anyway, the description needs work. Don't tell us in the description that it's not a generic business, tell us what makes it stand out from other bars and cafes.
If possible, use a photo for a sign for the bar rather than the bar area itself because that looks like a kitchen area to me.
Also, use the supporting statement to explain why it meets criteria.
@nobbynobbs1st-PGO
The primary photo looks terrible. What are we really looking at here? Nothing significant, a few taps for beer, a sink, random things. It's not a good representation of the bar itself.
The supporting photo doesn't help at all, it's just a photo of the toilet entry...
The description doesn't give any information as to why the bar is significant, what historical or cultural relevance does this generic looking sink have?
Is the brewery itself a wayspot already? People might reject it because of that too, submitting a generic looking drinking area is simply not a point of interest when the overarching building is already a wayspot.
I reviewed that, would have much preferred a photo of a sign than the bar area, also some may see putting "Not a generic business" in the description as mentioning Wayfarer specific terms which is a 1* for text.
As others said, mention why it meets criteria, what makes it unique and why would people go there. Not all bars and pubs should automatically go through, and I think with a more persuasive description people may overlook the fact the photo doesnt even show us the name of the taproom.
Quite simply, your photo, description, and supporting statement doesn't show that what you are nominating meets the criteria. Generic businesses are not automatically eligible (which is the true meaning it the GB criteria) and it is up to you, the nominator, the describe to the reviewer how the business meets the criteria.
On a side note, I would also 1-star that discription since you are trying to instruct the reviewer to vote a particular way.
The parks are not buyable/rentable objects that anyone can get to put in his shop/house.
I don't mind if a entire place is filed with game machines, as well as billard tables, since this will be a specific building, meeting point, like a mini amusement park, but that would be one good candidate, not every machine.
I'm not saying is invalid, just that I don't like it. But if you can direct me to an official statement allowing it, I'm gonna start sending the ones I know in my area. Thats gonna be a good number of additional waypoint, some of great strategic value on Ingress because the restrict access overnight.
Whilst id happily approve brewery I'd have to turn that one down, the description is being used as notes to a reviewer so the ineligible for that alone.
This is what i did to get a Brewery through (despite typo) maybe something similar can help you.
Bars and pubs are acceptable in that they dont fall under the adult orientated business category. It doesn't mean ALL bars and pubs should automatically be approved, just that they shouldn't be rejected solely for being adult orientated. They still have to meet some criteria and show that they have historical/cultural significance or are visually unique. Just like every other business. I've seen so many pubs where the description is something terrible like "local pub" and the supporting statement is "pubs are 5*". It tells me nothing about why people go there, what makes it stand out from other pubs, or why it meets any criteria at all.
I find it strange that pubs and bars sail through with very little effort made to sell them, and other businesses like coffee shops that have various community groups meeting there, or a butcher that has won many awards, or a one of a kind restaurant that people travel for miles to visit... they all struggle no matter how well the submitter sold them.
@Senmana-ING I tend to 1* pubs/bars that have a very generic or basic description (I.E. local pub/bar, watering hole, does food, etc). I would prefer to see cafes or other community meeting places fo be subbed though.
Fair enough. This was the third attempt, first couple using external shots and sign etc with more of a description. To be turned down for "body parts in photo" "dark photo" "doesn't exist" lazy rejects. Hence third was to try and point out the reasons why it was 5* . Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It also doesn't help that I've just learned that a rival group of players from the next town are discussing on a private message group to bulk reject nominations.
You are asking for more than is required. Bar signs and actual bars in the bar all have been rejected wrongly by reviewers. All bars and pubs should be as easy as a playground or athletic field and should be because it is written as such in wayfarer. "Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable." Acceptable! Means you are to accept. A taproom or a sign, are not required, they are portions of the actual bar itself, that is like comparing various parts of a baseball field.
A review for a bar should go like this people. Really. There shouldn't even be a choice on a 1 star for a bar. This is by far the most abused by reviewers on purpose. All bars meet criteria of a socializing community gathering area. (The main acceptance criteria requirement in the game. A place for people to gather and socialize.)
Overall should this be a Wayspot. Yes it is written as acceptable. Vote according for 2 to 5. (No one stars on bars for generic business should even be voted!)
Title / Descroption. Is it named "such and such bar/pub/tavern/inn" Yes. Is the description about the bar. Yes. Then vote accordingly. 1 to 5. (Novels for descriptions should be rated lower for the record. Because they do not port to the games well.)
Historic/Cultural Significance. Bars are cultural because they promote socializing and gatherings which is a 5 star by itself. Historic is if the bar is over 20 years than it is historic by most local communities.
Visually Unique. (Rate 1 to 5).
Safety. (rate 1 to 5.) Yes it has pedestrian access and plenty of area to walk. Most have parking lots and plenty of parking and sidewalks.
Location. (1, 3 or 5). Yes it is on the bar within a few feet. 3 is your are unsure on location. 1 is not on the screen and can't be located. (This is where you are supposed to search to make sure somewhere exists. If you watch the wayfarer help video it says only on this part of the review is where you are to question if the location exists.)
It is really not that hard. Yet my biggest pet peeve with reviewers especially ingress agents and pokemon players who refuse to read wayfarer help and purposely reject as a result.
And honestly if you vote less than a 3 star on "Should this be a portal" for bars. You can't decide your vote is a 3 star for unsure.
That statement makes absolutely no sense.
If I'm unsure about a submission, I skip it or I log off Wayfarer for a couple of hours and go back to reviewing other submissions instead.
If someone subs a pub or bar just as "local bar" or "watering hole", it gets a 1* - generic business - because they've not told me anything about it.
In regards to overall rating, chain pubs/bars do deserve a 1* unless there's something about that particular establishment that sticks out. As an example, Wetherspoons in the UK fare well because each if their pubs have relevance to the town/city they're in because the establishment's name is something thay links it to that area. Such as the Benjamen Fawcett in Driffield, the Three Scott's in Hull, the Prior John in Bridlington, and so on and so on. Whereas a chain pub like Toby Carvery gets the 1* treatment because it does nothing to make its branches/pubs/other establishments stand out. If an independent bar or pub has a very basic description such as "local drinking spot", again, it's a 1* from me since it tells me nothing to as how it meets criteria.
In regards to Title/Description, a longer, well written, and informative description gets a higher rating from a lot of reviewers.
In regards to Cultural/Historic, we can't say for certain how much cultural or historic value the nominations have if the description is barren. Also, being old doesn't equate to being historic. If that was the case, there's A LOT of buildings in my town I could sub and say they're historic because they're old.
So, please, don't preach to us about the criteria or how we should rate when we've been doing it long enough to know what we're doing. We are not thr ones that are cherry picking the guidelines, criteria, and clarifications to suit ourselves.
No, your original comment, Gabriel, didn't make sense at all. Wayfarer doesn't even give recommendations for what stars you should give now. That was OPR you're thinking of.
Again, just because it says pubs and bars are acceptable because they're not adult orientated, doesn't necessarily mean every single one should be an easy accept. Some meet criteria more than others.
(Novels for descriptions should be rated lower for the record. Because they do not port to the games well.)
This is entirely incorrect. Niantic have given us a set number of characters for a reason and it's ok to fill that space with explaining what your nomination is and selling it to reviewers. In the case of a pub or bar, it should be used to say what is unique about the bar and what brings people there. "Local watering hole" tells me nothing. Also, Wayfarer and the POI network is about more than just how things look on one game. Just because a longer description may need some scrolling on PoGo doesn't matter, it's there to give useful information on the Point of Interest which could be used for things other than just Niantic games in the future. For me, the more information in a description, the better!
I'm both actually - it doesn't matter that my user shows I logged in via Ingress. I submit through both, but no, we don't all have the all time in the world, so please, stop generalising.