Grade II listed building rejection
SabinFlorin-PGO
Posts: 13 ✭✭
Hello fellow Wayfarers everywhere.
I am so frustrated (mildly put) I don't even know where to start...
Let me explain what I am hoping to achieve through this topic. I hope to understand why would anyone reject my nomination so i can improve when i submit it again, that is if it is worth trying again.
And i want to explain where my fustration is directed. First of all the rejection criteria... Makes no sense to me. From my understanding "Other rejection criteria" is used for nominations that don't meet any eligibility criteria. And not only, i feel like my nomination does meet eligibility criteria, it also meets acceptance criteria.
Next, is the fact i spent many hours reviewing, to get an upgrade specialy to upgrade this nomination which was in limbo (voting) for over a week. So a day after i upgrade it, it gets rejected, for no good reason as far as i can tell. Am i wrong to feel like i wasted hours scouring the internet about my local area, reading a history book, going out and submit my find, hours reviewing for the upgrade, all for free?
Let's have a look at the submison.
So at this stage, dear reader, what are your thoughts? Would you agree or disagree with the rejection? Why? Did i do something wrong and if yes, where did i go wrong in my submission?
For those who don't know what a listed building means in UK, here is a short description the same link provided in the supporting information.
The terrace and the point where i took the photos from can be best seen from Street View at this location 51.349968, -2.982393
In the supporting photo you can even a gate in the wall, one of the many access points as mentioned in supporting photo.
From Knighstone Rd you can see the "rear car park" also mentioned in supporting info and also same reference can clearly be seen in the photos on the building. 51.350687, -2.981963
Looking foward to feedback.
Comments
Is there a plaque on the building you could submit? From what I've seen, reviewers hate buildings, but love plaques about buildings (unfortunatey, imho). If there's some plaque or sign about the building's history, you may have better luck with that. I'm not from the UK, though, so I don't know how common "grade II" buildings are or how reviewers there view them.
There is a plaque on the already existing Waypoint pub/restaurant Cabot Court Hotel. But that's related to the pub I belive. And even if it was related to the Terrace, there's two issues I belive. One, it would be marked as duplicate. Or it would be rejected for mismatched location.
Yes, definitely true. People love plaques and signs. Even though some, I dare say most, are low quality in comparison with a massive building 173 years old that is also visually unique/attractive.
That page can probably give you an idea how "common" listed buildings are, or "uncommon" for that matter. I use that reference to point out the historic/uniqueness value of the nomination. It's not just any building that makes it on that list. I don't want to speak for anyone else, so, personally, I see a listed building as being of great importance not just locally but also nationally.
What's more, this particular building is also mentioned in the Wikipedia article about this town. And is mentioned in many tourist attraction articles and websites. Hence my desire to add it Wayfarer network.
Grade II Listed buildings can be great submissions. I think the main problem you have here is your description. I would change a couple of things if you resubmit:
1) Start the description with something along the lines of "Grade II Listed building (1129728) built in 1849 by Gabriel & Hirst of Bristol.", and then expand a bit more on the history of this extension to the building. I know you have a link to the listing in the supporting info, but this will make it more immediately noticeable to reviewers that Historic England have deemed it architecturally and/or historically important.
2) your description goes on about the hotel overall. I would suggest focusing more on just the Royal Terrace extension, as that's the bit you're nominating. If it has any unique or interesting features beyond just being listed, then make them known.
3) It's fine that it's used as a hotel, but some reviewers see "hotel" and equate it with generic business, when in this case your nomination is actually for the building itself rather than the business inside it. You should maybe make this a bit more clear in your supporting info.
Personally I'd have no problem accepting this, but I've struggled in the past with a couple of listed buildings myself, so I'm trying to convey what I changed when I resubmitted them and they got accepted.
I wrote a lenghty reply on my mobile and then somehow it magically disappeared 😂Either i did something (likely) or it was deleted by mods (if that kind of things happen here).
To sum it up in a much shorter version, i share you feeling, people do love plaques and signs.
And listed buildings are not common in UK. They must meet several criterias. More about that can be found on https://historicengland.org.uk/
Absolutely brilliant. Thank you very much for the feedback. Now that you point it out, i do see how the description didn't help my case too much.
@JillJilyJabadoo-PGO FYI - Grade " listed buildings are pretty common and alot of them, like the one my parents once lived in, look pretty average - ie there is little to distinguish them from the surrounding buildings. I've seen a lot of nominations or discussion saying "but but but it's on a list". True, but so is some absolute rubbish, being "listed" does not equate to "automatic acceptance", otherwise I would could have expected my parents house to be accepted in the days before PRP rules appeared.
Back to the sub.
1) Your supporting info is confused and full of unneeded stuff. "Safe access from multiple points" - no need to say this at all, particularly at the start of the supporing info. This should be obvious to reviewers. Too much and you run into "TLDR".
2) "Not to be confused with Knightstone Hotel or Royal Cabot or Royal Hotel". Don't say stuff like this, it confuses reviewers and sound like the POI is probably a duplicate, which means people will start looking for a duplicate, and the Royal Cabot is already a Portal.
3) Silly as it sounds, your nomination is just too big and vague. They photo is trying to encompass a very large building. Which bit exactly are you nominating? If it's the whole thing, then you run into No 2 again as Royal Cabot is part of the whole edifice. Big buildings like this are problematic, and if you are going to nominate a big structure your pin needs to be on the structure (ok) but you nomination photo ends up looking like a supporting info shot, it's very far away from the pin. Why?
Ok - what to do. My suggestion would be to turn 90 degrees from where you took the sub photo and photograph the entrance to the grounds with that nice arched sign there. Your description / supporting info could go something like this:
Royal Hotel Weston. The Royal Hotel, built in 1807, occupies a Grade II listed building . The hotel has an award winning restaurant (you can fill in the bits here) and the largest beer garden in England is a great place to socialise.
TLDR: - Your sub needs work.
If you turn 90 degree you see this - put the pin on that nice archway.
Thanks for taking the time @sogNinjaman-ING
Like you say, being listed doesn't grant an automatic acceptance. There are 20 or more listed buildings in my vicinity, one being a wall. HS has their own acceptance guidelines and obviously, they don't all align with Niantic's guidelines. Otherwise i would've submitted the wall already 😂
But generally speaking, the listings on Historic England in my area are very old, and retain much of the original architecture (Victorian era and earlier).
It is becoming clearer and clearer to me, i have much to learn and I'm happy i opened this discussion.
To adress some of the things you listed:
1) In the past, some of my nominations were rejected under "Not safe to access" or "No pedestrian access" or even "Private Property" even though that wasn't the case. So i made it a habit to point safe access and location as much and as clear as possible in supporting photo and text. I will try and drop this habit ✅
2) HankWolfman also pointed out my description didn't help. And yeah, i can see how my attempts to make things clear, acctually complicated things. Will work on that. ✅
3) This red bit is what i was trying to submit.
That is my understanding of the area based on what i can see in real life, Google Maps, photo and pin on the map on Historic England website for this entry.
All that being said, i was under the impression that 'larger is better'. I can give you as example the Cabot Court pub, the Weston College and the Weston College Conference Center. All waypoints. And the last two just as large if not larger. That's just in 100 meter radius. Larger waypoints exist furrther away.
In any case, your idea to submit the arch gate is most welcome and i will go out tomorrow to do just that. Like @JillJilyJabadoo-PGO said, some people love signs and plaques - generally smaller things 😅
Yes many buildings are grade II listed, often small houses, cottages, bridges, even garden walls, lots of nondescript stuff.
Now in terms of the description there have already been several suggestions but the overall objective is to get the reviewer to think "Wow! That's interesting. Worth a look if I'm ever in the area."
Edit: By the way, I did see a rather grand building in review in WSM, but can't remember whether this was it or not. Anyway, knowing what the rest of Weston looks like, it got very good marks from me.
Grade II Soup Recipe:
Photo - What is the dish? What are we being served? What is whetting my appetite? Feels like we are having drinks (outside) first.
Description - Start with Grade II listed building mention. Bam, no messing. Add a touch of brief history. Pepper in key dates. Sprinkle in some names of owners / architects. I wouldn't personally mention the list ID, save that for next course.
Supporting Information - Mention what the main protein (eligibility criteria) is, not everyone are connoisseurs. Remove any seeds of confusion. Keep ingredients fresh and simple. Leave the link and list Id, cover and simmer for no longer than 2 minutes then serve.
Reviewers - For dessert, bribe the reviewers with discount offers to your OnlyFans account*
*The last one is optional but works for me with my listed noms.
I have about 40 nominations in voting and about 30 in queue. So chances are you did see some other buildings from Weston 😊
I came across a book about town's history and a brochure for a walking trail around town, and I've learned a lot about this town and some of it's buildings, streets and parks history.
The buildings I nominated are the ones I found info about them in the book I read or part of the Hans Price walk (he was a renowned local architect).
Great recipe 🥳
I already submitted the nomination again with the same photo but with a different description and supporting text approach. I choose to keep the photo because I'm curious of the result.
This is the nomination with the chances suggested by fellow Wayfarers.
First, you can only say your nomination is "in limbo" if it's been four months. That short is iffy... some people would argue for six months or a year. MANY of us are totally jealous for a mere week.
If you title it with "Terrace", I think you're nominating the grassy area with tables and benches. But I read further and see you're not nominating a terrace - you're nominating the building. I'd say, clear up this ambiguity.