Gathering Points at Hotels
X0bai-PGO
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So, what is the general feeling on social/gathering places at hotels? I thought that hotels, while businesses and generally not eligible themselves, inherently feed toward criteria of exploration and socialization, and so places such as patios, gazebos, etc. on hotel grounds would be very nearly slam dunks, but recently I had two gazebos and a fire pit rejected in different parts of town, all under “other rejection criteria.” (one was also PRP, one was also temporary/seasonal, but those are nonsense so I’m ignoring them)
Is there a reason to lean away from these kinds of locations, or am I just hitting a rough patch of reviews?
Comments
I don't love them, but I wouldn't outright reject them just because they're at a hotel. The ones I've seen do tend to be weak candidates, and I couldn't see myself giving more than 3* for one.
The first thing you have to fight against is the "barrier to entry" perception. We know that wayspots are still eligible if some people can access them some of the time, but not all reviewers know this or abide by this. To me, hotel spots like this feel weaker because...well, for example, members of a country club might say "let's go spend the evening at the country club fire pit," but people aren't gonna say "let's meet in the Marriott Springhill Suites gazebo" because they would have to pay for a hotel night, so the people who would be using it would be hotel guests who are already there for another reason by circumstance.
And the thing is, these amenities are often disused by hotel guests. My partner works in hospitality (and his two sisters work or have worked at hotels), and I used to work in the travel industry and did various hotel consortia's "training" on their properties and brands. So this isn't a case study or anything, just some insider observations. I don't know why starting like 5-8 years ago, big hotel brands got all gung-hó about communal spaces and building community among hotel guests with things like "BBQ social every Wednesday by our fire pit!" or "ice cream and pool time every Monday in the summer!" I think that at many properties, these initiatives didn't have any real results, and so these spaces and events just feel like corporate charades or half-baked marketing. It turns out that most hotel guests (unless there for a convention/conference) don't really want to hang out with other strangers at the hotel while they're on a business trip or vacation. And of course, the pandemic (and understaffing) was kind of the nail in the coffin. Also, with more upscale hotels, these fire pits and cabanas and stuff are more akin to extended bar seating, like another place to be waited on, so I would think they would have to be held to the same standard as non-hotel bars and restaurants for POI eligibility.
It's kind of like those gazebos at real estate offices that seem to be more for decoration than gathering. Yes, it's technically a gazebo that is in that physical location, but people don't really gather there. It's more used for photo ops with clients or maybe an office ice cream social twice a year.
So, I may be jaded, but these hotel spots are a big meh for me. I see them more as "technically eligible" than "slam dunks."
They are elegible, but, unfortunately most of the reviewers reject them as "private residence", even after lots of clarifications made by Niantic in previews AMAs
When I worked downtown in a big city, I'd go on walks for 15-minute breaks, and for lunch hour. I enjoyed going thru big hotels - the artwork, interesting plaques, awe-inspiring atriums. (And the climate control.) But I never stopped at a fire pit, cluster of sofas, or any kind of meeting area.
So, a giant statue in the lobby - sure. Anyone can come look at it (if they can find parking, or take a train in). Wayspots there encouraged me to explore the buildings around my office, and got me to do a lot of walking.
BUT if the category is "gathering place", I tend to agree with @Melurra-PGO's thoughtful reply - it's a corporate gimmick and probably no one gathers there, except maybe as a customer of the hotel. Similar to a restaurant's outdoor seating - even if you call it a "pavilion". People only sit there because it's part of the restaurant.
If customers of the hotel gather there, how does not that meet criteria?
I don't think they're strictly ineligible, but they are just weak enough that they will be rejected or not marked high enough by enough reviewers to be passed.
To me, they run dangerously close to some other types of nominations that are typically taken for granted as rejects. I'll give some examples.
Employee lounges - people gather there, limited to the people who can access that office/workplace. But they're typically seen as a basic infrastructure in a generic office and are not accepted by reviewers.
Generic restaurants - dine-in restaurants are inherently great places to gather, even if they are chains/franchises. Customers gather there, have dates there, celebrate birthday parties and anniversaries there. Yet these nominations are typically rejected on sight. I don't see how the cookie-cutter hotel fire pit area, with the same movable patio furniture as every other corporate-owned Courtyard by Marriott or Holiday Inn (or what have you), is much different from what is generally agreed upon to be generic, reject restaurants.
Context matters, and a gazebo in a public park will always be better than the gazebo at an apartment complex will always be better than the gazebo at an office campus or hotel. In the end, 5* vs 4* may not make a difference, but 5* vs 3* or even 4* vs 2* certainly adds up over a dozen+ reviews.
I think this is a really good take. The candidates mentioned aren't ineligible, just not "interesting" when compared to itself in another location.
I wish the outcome of reviewing was less binary. As it is, a candidate is either accepted as a Wayspot or denied. It makes little sense to mark something with anything other than a 1* or a 5*. It would be an interesting system if a later Niantic product can make use of the saved ratings and base what appears/how it appears on the original rating. I think then you'd see more people being willing to approve such cases with a 2* for "doesn't meet rejection criteria but still just isn't innately interesting to me."
I have a more positive view of at least some such hotel gathering spots. I think they're akin to pavilions, gazebos, etc. in multi-family residential complexes that are meant for the residents of the apartment--which are clearly eligible--but hotel amenities are even better, because they're available to a much larger number of people. Not just the thousands of overnight guests over the course of a year, but people who visit the hotel during the day for meetings, conferences, etc. use those areas.
Admittedly much less often, occasionally hotels located next to or on public property such as rivers, beaches, bays, etc. are specifically required to allow the public to use their amenities, and when they're next to public faciliites, the general public often does see and use them.