All of the complete garbage wayspots in the queue. I don't care how much you want a couch stop... the streetlight in front of your house doesn't qualify, and you shouldn't waste reviewers' time with it.
The rampant cheating, people submitting and reviewing on multiple accounts, and local cabals colluding to make their own rules.
Fakes, so freaking many fakes. I've personally hunted down and had dozens of fakes removed, but they keep appearing.
Niantic's inability to communicate criteria and rules to people in a way that's easy for them to consume and understand.
I think if Niantic wanted these things fixed, I know they say they do and I'm sure they would prefer these not to happen, they are the only ones that could have fixed them by investing in the system they created.
They haven't and they are not going to. They were happy to pay people to do their scans when they couldn't convince their playerbase to do it for free while 'downsizing' the Wayfarer team at the same time. If Wayfarer is a mess the blame for that lies 100% on Niantic's shoulders for not fixing the abuse or educating the individuals who want P0kerst0pz.
This is exactly what i meant in my previous post. Niantic has shown an immense lack of respect to the people that have built their map from the ground up (Ingress players at start, Wayfinders later on). Everyday you see both submitters and reviewers frustrated (some unjustified, others justified) over issues that Niantic themselves could fix, yet they refuse to. Heck, they're culling people from the already understaffed WF team. If that's not a red flag...
@The26thDoctor-PGO You are correct that if Niantic wanted to fix these things they would... that's why I called them out as things that frustrate me. I can't really be arsed to care about any individual wayspot not ending up the way I want, but the ongoing systemic issues are a bit depressing.
They are. I've never been able to work it out if it's just corporate/management choices or if Niantic becoming a mapping/gaming company created an uncontrollable beast.
That’s why it fascinates me that people are obsessed with the “quality” and “accuracy” of the map. Why do they care so much when Niantic doesn’t even care?
I really don't think its a problem at all, only submitting for your own game.
If Niantic is going to have us collect data for their database, unpaid (even in terms of in-game rewards), that they will use for their own profit, I am not obligated in ANY way, shape or form, to use MY FREE TIME, to submit something I know I'll never get to use. End of.
i constantly get slapped by the germany community about me doing ithat way.
I still have the same approach -> When i submit, i want it to be in PGO. I have no interest in Ingress. If there are people out there that play ingress, they can submit their stuff.
If i wont be able to play there on a regulary base, i wont submit there.
Also, if i wont be able to play there, i wont review things from afar.
Niantic still hasnt done anything about these 3 roadblocks, and probably never will. I think this is curtains for wayfarer anyway.
@The26thDoctor-PGO They've been like this in various ways for the last nine years... nothing here is new. A part of me is shocked that they haven't grown up and become more customer-centric, but another part doesn't expect that a zebra will suddenly become polka-dotted.
@29andCounting-PGO I care about quality because I like discovering new and interesting things via Niantic's games, and because I'm just generally like that.
It’s up to you (and completely fine) if you want to nominate mainly for one game.
Just don’t be peeved about it if it doesn’t appear in the game you nominated from.
With the updates to inclusion rules it can also happen that an Ingress player nominates something which then only shows up in Pokémon GO, but I haven’t seen complaints about that as I guess they just accept it.
Since accepted wayspots have different impacts in the games it’s no surprise there are different reactions to the issue of wayspots that don’t show up.
In Ingress if the wayspot doesn’t appear it is because it is within 20m of another. The fact that it doesn’t enter the game has no other impact. Yes you might have wanted a second one very close but that’s all. So the impact on game play is low. All portals have an equal status.
In Pokémon Go if a wayspot doesn’t appear then it’s because it’s not in its own cell. Level 17 cells are not that big, but it is further than 20m (personally I don’t find the distance an issue). However the impact is much wider. Each stop will issue different tasks, have the chance to have rockets battles, be a rocket leader spot. So that directly affects playability.
The fact it doesn’t appear impacts on the Level 14 cell count towards getting a gym and the different gameplay that involves. Some gyms also have the added status of exgyms ( whether this will be significant again is anyones guess). Depending on the area a wayspot not appearing can have a much wider impact impact on gameplay, so there is more lost in it not appearing, so hardly surprising that people are justifiably frustrated.
And I'm sure the reverse happens, it just isn't as visible as:
A) Strictly-Ingress players (from what I've seen) aren't really as plentiful as strictly-Go players. Its a matter of statistics.
B) The rules for inclusion in each game simply don't allow for Pogo-only wayspots as often. If you're using Ingress to get something in Go only, the spacing rules are a lot more restrictive in that regard.
Personally, I think allowing all wayspots in all games would be the best course of action, and if they had to do a hard "System Restore" of all wayspots back to like... 2017 (to prevent clutter, and to prevent Zaragoza-like situations) to achieve that, I'd be fine with it.
The likes of Zaragoza, where there's Wayspots on top of Wayspots is exactly why all Wayspots should not be in PoGo (Which is what we are talking about when you mention "all games", let's face it)
Stops on top of each other, and spawns on top of that would be bedlam, and players would complain that it's too cluttered.
I agree there aren't as many but I don't recall seeing complaints in the vein of this original one to say that "Pokémon GO should not have this Wayspot because I nominated it for Ingress and Pokémon GO is trash." for example
Not anymore. I still see the false perception from UK Ingress players that Go players will add 'trash' to the system.
Of course there was never any trash before Go players in the good old days, when I were a lad and we had to walk 2,000 miles bare foot in the snow just to think about a submission... :D
I think people regardless of game, will try and add trash to the system.
There are just more Pokémon GO players/submitters with minimal Niantic guidance on what they should do and don’t understand why the postbox outside of their house can’t be a PokéStop when they’ve seen another one that is.
I remember seeing a fair amount of “body parts” during OPR times so at least we don’t get that now.
As said as well, (comment rather than edit my other and lose it to the void) players are after different things with Portal vs PokéStop. I imagine many Pokémon GO players never look at photo/title/description and if they have a GO Plus or similar don’t even need to look on the map where for Ingress for field plans and the like people will check keys or decide which ones to stash in lockers as well.
So it’s a fiddly balance when your two main game players want different things from the same POI.
Most definitely poi for Go players are generally more functional - Get items, get coins.
I have been told I am weird for saying I love when I open the game in a new city and can see which type of Wayspots have been added and see which ones I might want to visit :D
All of the complete garbage wayspots in the queue. I don't care how much you want a couch stop... the streetlight in front of your house doesn't qualify, and you shouldn't waste reviewers' time with it.
The rampant cheating, people submitting and reviewing on multiple accounts, and local cabals colluding to make their own rules.
Fakes, so freaking many fakes. I've personally hunted down and had dozens of fakes removed, but they keep appearing.
I've seen WAY less coal and fakes in the last week or two. MAYBE Lightship built an algorithm (or AI?) that catches them before they come to us?
They should recognize photoshopped pictures. And send straight to Niantic Review things that seem to be on single family residence or children's school, or other suspicious behavior. I suspect that's what they were doing a week or two ago, when SO many things went straight to Niantic review. They "test" changes by rolling out code to production, and seeing what happens.Ooops, that change created too many Niantic Reviews. What will they tweak? It's ongoing. But I think it's actually an improvement.
It is ridiculous each game uses different standards for their POI’s. They should all show up in all games. Standardize it. Especially in the most popular game they have!
Pokémon GO players tend to think they want all the Wayspots that Ingress has. You don’t.
You don’t want places where you have 4-5 Wayspots all in one place (back from when there was no 20m rule on Ingress). Imagine 4-5 PokéStops stacked on top of each other when you’re trying to tap a Rocket, or a certain Pokémon or trying to get a certain stop.
Dial the database back to 2017 (date is irrelevant, you could even say 2016), wipe it clean. Build it back up from the ground up using resubmissions.
Zaragoza is a result of location edit abuse. This wouldn't be possible anymore. Even if all wayspots were allowed in all games, this wouldn't result in any clusters even as remotely bad as what we have now.
Not in that same phrasing, no, but I've seen a ton of hostility from Ingress players here along the lines of "those darn Pogo players shouldn't even be able to submit, always submitting trash blah blah blah" which is just as bad.
I agree that it’s bad. But I don’t think on the same level as “that other game is trash” type of comments that started this thread, considering that as mentioned, Pokémon GO players are the majority of submitters and we see a LOT of coal.
Cannot really have it both ways, as the coal has to come from somewhere
Of course, there’s always coal but I am sure we can all agree that the levels seemed to increase when Pokémon GO got access. Whether that was due to more people generally or more people not knowing/willingly ignoring the guidelines.
Comments
I think we can agree that was a #/!£ post :D
All of the complete garbage wayspots in the queue. I don't care how much you want a couch stop... the streetlight in front of your house doesn't qualify, and you shouldn't waste reviewers' time with it.
The rampant cheating, people submitting and reviewing on multiple accounts, and local cabals colluding to make their own rules.
Fakes, so freaking many fakes. I've personally hunted down and had dozens of fakes removed, but they keep appearing.
Niantic's inability to communicate criteria and rules to people in a way that's easy for them to consume and understand.
I think if Niantic wanted these things fixed, I know they say they do and I'm sure they would prefer these not to happen, they are the only ones that could have fixed them by investing in the system they created.
They haven't and they are not going to. They were happy to pay people to do their scans when they couldn't convince their playerbase to do it for free while 'downsizing' the Wayfarer team at the same time. If Wayfarer is a mess the blame for that lies 100% on Niantic's shoulders for not fixing the abuse or educating the individuals who want P0kerst0pz.
This is exactly what i meant in my previous post. Niantic has shown an immense lack of respect to the people that have built their map from the ground up (Ingress players at start, Wayfinders later on). Everyday you see both submitters and reviewers frustrated (some unjustified, others justified) over issues that Niantic themselves could fix, yet they refuse to. Heck, they're culling people from the already understaffed WF team. If that's not a red flag...
@The26thDoctor-PGO You are correct that if Niantic wanted to fix these things they would... that's why I called them out as things that frustrate me. I can't really be arsed to care about any individual wayspot not ending up the way I want, but the ongoing systemic issues are a bit depressing.
They are. I've never been able to work it out if it's just corporate/management choices or if Niantic becoming a mapping/gaming company created an uncontrollable beast.
That’s why it fascinates me that people are obsessed with the “quality” and “accuracy” of the map. Why do they care so much when Niantic doesn’t even care?
I really don't think its a problem at all, only submitting for your own game.
If Niantic is going to have us collect data for their database, unpaid (even in terms of in-game rewards), that they will use for their own profit, I am not obligated in ANY way, shape or form, to use MY FREE TIME, to submit something I know I'll never get to use. End of.
This is as true as it gets.
i constantly get slapped by the germany community about me doing ithat way.
I still have the same approach -> When i submit, i want it to be in PGO. I have no interest in Ingress. If there are people out there that play ingress, they can submit their stuff.
If i wont be able to play there on a regulary base, i wont submit there.
Also, if i wont be able to play there, i wont review things from afar.
Niantic still hasnt done anything about these 3 roadblocks, and probably never will. I think this is curtains for wayfarer anyway.
It's your time to do with as you see fit, no one should be telling you how to use your time unless they specifically pay you to do so 😉
@The26thDoctor-PGO They've been like this in various ways for the last nine years... nothing here is new. A part of me is shocked that they haven't grown up and become more customer-centric, but another part doesn't expect that a zebra will suddenly become polka-dotted.
@29andCounting-PGO I care about quality because I like discovering new and interesting things via Niantic's games, and because I'm just generally like that.
It’s up to you (and completely fine) if you want to nominate mainly for one game.
Just don’t be peeved about it if it doesn’t appear in the game you nominated from.
With the updates to inclusion rules it can also happen that an Ingress player nominates something which then only shows up in Pokémon GO, but I haven’t seen complaints about that as I guess they just accept it.
Since accepted wayspots have different impacts in the games it’s no surprise there are different reactions to the issue of wayspots that don’t show up.
In Ingress if the wayspot doesn’t appear it is because it is within 20m of another. The fact that it doesn’t enter the game has no other impact. Yes you might have wanted a second one very close but that’s all. So the impact on game play is low. All portals have an equal status.
In Pokémon Go if a wayspot doesn’t appear then it’s because it’s not in its own cell. Level 17 cells are not that big, but it is further than 20m (personally I don’t find the distance an issue). However the impact is much wider. Each stop will issue different tasks, have the chance to have rockets battles, be a rocket leader spot. So that directly affects playability.
The fact it doesn’t appear impacts on the Level 14 cell count towards getting a gym and the different gameplay that involves. Some gyms also have the added status of exgyms ( whether this will be significant again is anyones guess). Depending on the area a wayspot not appearing can have a much wider impact impact on gameplay, so there is more lost in it not appearing, so hardly surprising that people are justifiably frustrated.
So I would expect the reactions to be different.
Why not? I'd be frustrated if I were OP as well.
And I'm sure the reverse happens, it just isn't as visible as:
A) Strictly-Ingress players (from what I've seen) aren't really as plentiful as strictly-Go players. Its a matter of statistics.
B) The rules for inclusion in each game simply don't allow for Pogo-only wayspots as often. If you're using Ingress to get something in Go only, the spacing rules are a lot more restrictive in that regard.
Personally, I think allowing all wayspots in all games would be the best course of action, and if they had to do a hard "System Restore" of all wayspots back to like... 2017 (to prevent clutter, and to prevent Zaragoza-like situations) to achieve that, I'd be fine with it.
The likes of Zaragoza, where there's Wayspots on top of Wayspots is exactly why all Wayspots should not be in PoGo (Which is what we are talking about when you mention "all games", let's face it)
Stops on top of each other, and spawns on top of that would be bedlam, and players would complain that it's too cluttered.
I agree there aren't as many but I don't recall seeing complaints in the vein of this original one to say that "Pokémon GO should not have this Wayspot because I nominated it for Ingress and Pokémon GO is trash." for example
Not anymore. I still see the false perception from UK Ingress players that Go players will add 'trash' to the system.
Of course there was never any trash before Go players in the good old days, when I were a lad and we had to walk 2,000 miles bare foot in the snow just to think about a submission... :D
Not sure why it added UK there . Sorry UK Ingress players the rest of the world has added as much trash as you too :)
I think people regardless of game, will try and add trash to the system.
There are just more Pokémon GO players/submitters with minimal Niantic guidance on what they should do and don’t understand why the postbox outside of their house can’t be a PokéStop when they’ve seen another one that is.
I remember seeing a fair amount of “body parts” during OPR times so at least we don’t get that now.
😆
As said as well, (comment rather than edit my other and lose it to the void) players are after different things with Portal vs PokéStop. I imagine many Pokémon GO players never look at photo/title/description and if they have a GO Plus or similar don’t even need to look on the map where for Ingress for field plans and the like people will check keys or decide which ones to stash in lockers as well.
So it’s a fiddly balance when your two main game players want different things from the same POI.
Most definitely poi for Go players are generally more functional - Get items, get coins.
I have been told I am weird for saying I love when I open the game in a new city and can see which type of Wayspots have been added and see which ones I might want to visit :D
Yeah I feel a lot of Pokémon GO players just see items and coins, not POI or places to visit on the map.
All of the complete garbage wayspots in the queue. I don't care how much you want a couch stop... the streetlight in front of your house doesn't qualify, and you shouldn't waste reviewers' time with it.
The rampant cheating, people submitting and reviewing on multiple accounts, and local cabals colluding to make their own rules.
Fakes, so freaking many fakes. I've personally hunted down and had dozens of fakes removed, but they keep appearing.
I've seen WAY less coal and fakes in the last week or two. MAYBE Lightship built an algorithm (or AI?) that catches them before they come to us?
They should recognize photoshopped pictures. And send straight to Niantic Review things that seem to be on single family residence or children's school, or other suspicious behavior. I suspect that's what they were doing a week or two ago, when SO many things went straight to Niantic review. They "test" changes by rolling out code to production, and seeing what happens.Ooops, that change created too many Niantic Reviews. What will they tweak? It's ongoing. But I think it's actually an improvement.
I like your optimisim that they are that bothered about maintaining quality submissions or that it would actually work as intended.
It is ridiculous each game uses different standards for their POI’s. They should all show up in all games. Standardize it. Especially in the most popular game they have!
You wouldn’t want that.
Pokémon GO players tend to think they want all the Wayspots that Ingress has. You don’t.
You don’t want places where you have 4-5 Wayspots all in one place (back from when there was no 20m rule on Ingress). Imagine 4-5 PokéStops stacked on top of each other when you’re trying to tap a Rocket, or a certain Pokémon or trying to get a certain stop.
The Pokémon GO rules make sense for the game.
Hence the "System Restore" idea.
Dial the database back to 2017 (date is irrelevant, you could even say 2016), wipe it clean. Build it back up from the ground up using resubmissions.
Zaragoza is a result of location edit abuse. This wouldn't be possible anymore. Even if all wayspots were allowed in all games, this wouldn't result in any clusters even as remotely bad as what we have now.
Not in that same phrasing, no, but I've seen a ton of hostility from Ingress players here along the lines of "those darn Pogo players shouldn't even be able to submit, always submitting trash blah blah blah" which is just as bad.
I agree that it’s bad. But I don’t think on the same level as “that other game is trash” type of comments that started this thread, considering that as mentioned, Pokémon GO players are the majority of submitters and we see a LOT of coal.
Cannot really have it both ways, as the coal has to come from somewhere
Of course, there’s always coal but I am sure we can all agree that the levels seemed to increase when Pokémon GO got access. Whether that was due to more people generally or more people not knowing/willingly ignoring the guidelines.
You have to remember with this, that some Wayspots will have existed for nearly 10 years now via Ingress so people won’t want them to just vanish.
However, cycling them in each Season (…of GO/…of Light for Pokémon GO & Kythera/Superposition for Ingress) could work to allow for a refreshed map.