My insider info is that I've worked on converting processes to AI. Several certifications in it too.
SO many things Niantic is doing fits into an AI conversion scenario.
The main thing that doesn't, is, once you have the millions of input (which they should have had easily), you try to complete it in 6 months. Google's fees (for assistance staff) go up after that, and it's costly to have two systems running at once (the old one, and the AI). BUT the main reason for going over 6 months is when the company didn't really have a grasp on their data and processes - what to put in, and when they want yes-or-no to come out. It's a pretty common pitfall that I wouldn't be surprised if it happened here.
Things in my area used to get accepted in about 2 weeks then around 2020 everything just stopped. Nothing moves in my home town without an upgrade anymore. I've had over 100 good submissions sat in queue for 2 years. As I earn about an upgrade per week it would take years of reviewing to get my submissions through, plus new ones along the way. But all I needed to do was include who ********* it in the supporting text and it accepted in less than a week again? Sounds more like the fix than the bug to me.
I havent forced any words where it isnt appropriate. There are still many of my submissions it wouldnt work for without being very obvious. But earning upgrades for what is left seems a lot more achievable than the previous mountain. Plus actually seeing results and new wayspots appearing in games has given the local community a needed morale boost.
@FunneIWeb-ING they are clearing the backlog. It started for me earlier this year.
They are going through in strict date order. It was about those around 800 dates old and going steadily but because I think they have hit a larger volume it has been creeping up. My best estimate is around 840 days at the moment so those in queue or voting from end August 2020.
I didn't believe it so I tried it on a LFL which had been in queue for several months and boom, off to Niantic voting. To be fair, most, if not all Little Free Libraries are sponsored. Not all are eligible though.
I understand why Niantic have certain trigger words which need to be reviewed by humans. Automated word filters are hard. Tom Scott on Youtube does a video about "The Scunthorpe Problem" as it's known in the UK.
What irritates me is the disparity between appeals and "trigger word" submissions. One of my appeals went into Niantic review on 21st November, over 3 weeks ago, and is still being reviewed. In that time Ive had about 50 sumbissions completed by adding a certain word, 24 were accepted in the first 12 hours of me learning about the word. So why does one appeal take so long? and thats just the one being reviewed, I have many more waiting to be seen. If trigger words go instantly to voting and complete in a day or 2, why cant appeals?
Having said that though, there are theories that some reviews are being outsourced, and the timing of all of my acceptance emails would appear to confirm that. Maybe appeals are being dealt with internally and that is why they take much longer. This would give me a little hope that the results of appeals will be better because the reviewing for trigger words is chaotic.
After posting this earlier today Niantic have taken two of mine out of the queue without trigger words. One is the oldest from November 2020, the other is from January 2021. I have another 8 older than that one so I dont think they are necessarily doing them in date order.
I’ve not seen this behaviour before in terms of the dates.
The one from May 2021 is now a duplicate - it slipped to in voting and when I checked I saw that someone else had had the wayspot approved, but could not delete. It’s in the in excess of 2 years area.
The one from July 2022 is in an area where nominations can move quickly. Most of my ones from around there resolved naturally in around 6-9 weeks but this one got stuck not sure why.
I haven’t been using trigger word on any of my nominations.
I like your theory, this might be the case. It would explain why appeals take so long, but trigger words are processed almost instantly. Like you said, 24 decisions within 12 hours... that's just way too op.
Just to give an update and an idea of current timescales I'm experiencing...
The appeal which went into review on 21st November is still being reviewed (4+ weeks). No more appeals have gone into review.
The two old submissions from Nov 20 & Jan 21 taken into Niantic review without an appeal or trigger word on 14th December were accepted on 17th and 20th. (3-6 days) (3-4 week days)
Trigger words have slowed down as more users have become aware of them. I added a trigger word to a submission on 14th Decemeber, it went instantly into review and was accepted 20th. (6 days) (4 week days)
EDIT: Ive never had a response from Niantic on the weekend so I included the number of week days.
The 2 I mentioned above that were not appealed but pulled from the queue on the 14th were resolved in a couple of days as expected ( 1 duplicate and 1 accepted).
I dont think they implemented anything before making the announcement though. I am still waiting for one of mine to be taken from the queue which has "basketball court" in the description...
Just saw reports that the main trigger word I know of people abusing has been fixed and no longer sends a nomination directly into Niantic voting on release from hold. ty if this is true!
Comments
What's the trigger word then? For testing purposes only, totally not to cheat the system 👀👀
Sponsored
Right, that's what I've said.
Now can you explain why they haven't implemented such decision tree?
Why wait for a complex AI instead of start with something basic that filters out clearly bad nominations?
Great questions. Incompetance? Priorities out of ****? High turnover?
Maybe they want something complex that they can then market out to others building AR games?
Yes, pay for this and the AI will ensure that only approved “Breweries” get added to your game.
Anywhere else you might have confidence that all the programming/training would work……
BUT this is Niantic need I say more?
I thought that you would know the answers because you're constantly explaining how they are training an AI.
So do you mean that you don't have any insider info and you're in the dark like the rest of us?
Correct.
If I was able, I'd confirm they aren't using AI and don't have immediate plans for such 🙃
My insider info is that I've worked on converting processes to AI. Several certifications in it too.
SO many things Niantic is doing fits into an AI conversion scenario.
The main thing that doesn't, is, once you have the millions of input (which they should have had easily), you try to complete it in 6 months. Google's fees (for assistance staff) go up after that, and it's costly to have two systems running at once (the old one, and the AI). BUT the main reason for going over 6 months is when the company didn't really have a grasp on their data and processes - what to put in, and when they want yes-or-no to come out. It's a pretty common pitfall that I wouldn't be surprised if it happened here.
I welcome our new robot reviewing overlords.
the terrminators will still take you out as well, you'll just be last, just warning you lol
Things in my area used to get accepted in about 2 weeks then around 2020 everything just stopped. Nothing moves in my home town without an upgrade anymore. I've had over 100 good submissions sat in queue for 2 years. As I earn about an upgrade per week it would take years of reviewing to get my submissions through, plus new ones along the way. But all I needed to do was include who ********* it in the supporting text and it accepted in less than a week again? Sounds more like the fix than the bug to me.
I havent forced any words where it isnt appropriate. There are still many of my submissions it wouldnt work for without being very obvious. But earning upgrades for what is left seems a lot more achievable than the previous mountain. Plus actually seeing results and new wayspots appearing in games has given the local community a needed morale boost.
@FunneIWeb-ING they are clearing the backlog. It started for me earlier this year.
They are going through in strict date order. It was about those around 800 dates old and going steadily but because I think they have hit a larger volume it has been creeping up. My best estimate is around 840 days at the moment so those in queue or voting from end August 2020.
I didn't believe it so I tried it on a LFL which had been in queue for several months and boom, off to Niantic voting. To be fair, most, if not all Little Free Libraries are sponsored. Not all are eligible though.
They'll review it anyway regardless the usage of that word, though.
My oldest left in queue now is November 2020. A few months ago they did take over a few which were stuck in voting since early 2020.
Somebody in my local group told me yesterday that they have one still in queue which they upgraded in 2020. The wayspot was long since accepted.
I’m based in Manchester area.
At the start of year I had quite a few from beginning April 2020 in voting/queue.
Several of the backlog ones had become duplicates, but I did get some finally through.
oldest Now is 29th Sept 2020, and in queue so I reckon another 6 weeks or so.
My oldest In Queue has an Atlanta GA address, and is from 2021-10-02 (14+ months old).
I understand why Niantic have certain trigger words which need to be reviewed by humans. Automated word filters are hard. Tom Scott on Youtube does a video about "The Scunthorpe Problem" as it's known in the UK.
What irritates me is the disparity between appeals and "trigger word" submissions. One of my appeals went into Niantic review on 21st November, over 3 weeks ago, and is still being reviewed. In that time Ive had about 50 sumbissions completed by adding a certain word, 24 were accepted in the first 12 hours of me learning about the word. So why does one appeal take so long? and thats just the one being reviewed, I have many more waiting to be seen. If trigger words go instantly to voting and complete in a day or 2, why cant appeals?
Having said that though, there are theories that some reviews are being outsourced, and the timing of all of my acceptance emails would appear to confirm that. Maybe appeals are being dealt with internally and that is why they take much longer. This would give me a little hope that the results of appeals will be better because the reviewing for trigger words is chaotic.
After posting this earlier today Niantic have taken two of mine out of the queue without trigger words. One is the oldest from November 2020, the other is from January 2021. I have another 8 older than that one so I dont think they are necessarily doing them in date order.
That’s interesting @FunneIWeb-ING
it inspired me to check and 2 of mine have moved to in voting Niantic….
I’ve not seen this behaviour before in terms of the dates.
The one from May 2021 is now a duplicate - it slipped to in voting and when I checked I saw that someone else had had the wayspot approved, but could not delete. It’s in the in excess of 2 years area.
The one from July 2022 is in an area where nominations can move quickly. Most of my ones from around there resolved naturally in around 6-9 weeks but this one got stuck not sure why.
I haven’t been using trigger word on any of my nominations.
I like your theory, this might be the case. It would explain why appeals take so long, but trigger words are processed almost instantly. Like you said, 24 decisions within 12 hours... that's just way too op.
Just to give an update and an idea of current timescales I'm experiencing...
The appeal which went into review on 21st November is still being reviewed (4+ weeks). No more appeals have gone into review.
The two old submissions from Nov 20 & Jan 21 taken into Niantic review without an appeal or trigger word on 14th December were accepted on 17th and 20th. (3-6 days) (3-4 week days)
Trigger words have slowed down as more users have become aware of them. I added a trigger word to a submission on 14th Decemeber, it went instantly into review and was accepted 20th. (6 days) (4 week days)
EDIT: Ive never had a response from Niantic on the weekend so I included the number of week days.
The 2 I mentioned above that were not appealed but pulled from the queue on the 14th were resolved in a couple of days as expected ( 1 duplicate and 1 accepted).
No change with appeals
In response to a recent announcement Niantic have said they are adding more trigger words relating to basketball... https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/38605/update-to-wayfarer-criteria-regarding-outdoor-basketball-courts-discussion/p1?new=1
I dont think they implemented anything before making the announcement though. I am still waiting for one of mine to be taken from the queue which has "basketball court" in the description...
Thanks, Kent Brockman!
Just saw reports that the main trigger word I know of people abusing has been fixed and no longer sends a nomination directly into Niantic voting on release from hold. ty if this is true!
Does the trigger word start with the letter S by chance?