So funny to read all these enl salty tears over losing their precious portal, providing proof of a safe pedestrian route "for employees" (glossing over the fact that they are NOT employees and therefore probably cannot use this route legally) while actually using a dinghy to reach the portal that is next to a Hydroelectric Power Plant.
My guess is enl will blame res for removing this portal when it's more likely the owner of the site that requested the removal, bc too many times there were dangerous situations with small dinghies and probably some peeps climbing onto the site to take a picture with the enl flag, as is enl tradition.
And if it was RES, we learned this methods from you enl.
Quit crying about your precious Mind Units and portal and find another one ASAP, winning THE next cycle is ofc. much more in important than pointless whining.
How should it be special? Both factions do this kind of stuff. I can't wait to take notice about the next "removal by Res" post.. it's part of the game, I guess. Deal with it.
Still have seen no evidence that the portal is safe for the public to visit. The argument so far seems to be " please reinstate the portal as it was helping us win" without regard for safety....
I doubt NIA will reinstate the portal, even though the portal is perfectly and safely accessible if you own a boat, work for any of the companies maintaining the environment around the portal or even during privately arranged tours.
Nonetheless I think it is important to voice out that portal removals purely because it is used in/for a field setup or as stratigic link etc, and is difficult to reach, should not be part of normal gameplay, independent of the faction that (at any point) uses such a portal. Too many beautiful portals have been removed by these types of actions and it takes away from the pleasure of actually playing the game the way it was intended.
“Hey guys I just posted an appeal. Please upvote and also say you want this back because this portal is the reason we all can live here. Oh and don’t forget to downvote all comments from the opposing factions! We need to win the battle on the forums too! Our whole existence of our faction depends on it!”
“Hey guys, the opposing factions just posted an appeal. Let’s downvote everything and tell them to stop complaining and get over it!”
If the pin was on the middle structure than yes, it would be a bit of a PITA portal, and also a classic example of "no pedestrian access". On that basis, it seems like a Waypoint that meets Niantic removal criteria.
Lol, i do think winning cycles isn't only one portal ;)
Still, portals get removed because the actual object isn't there anymore, rules or ground owner decides to remove them. "we, the players of the game" only help ground owners to take notice about the dangerous things that are happening on their ground.
If you can't win the game without a good PITA (i love good pita), your motivation isn't good enough to win something.. But, the green faction even want to reinstate portals that absolutely don't exist anymore.
I truly don't understand this discussion. It's clear that this portal is pre-defined significant for the Dutch people in general and has great potential of history.
A lot of speculation and “maybe some colored reactions” about this removal. I had nothing to do with this removal request but I asked RWS (Dutch government) for a official reaction. Here is the English translation:
Dear Mr/Mrs Sander, You have submitted a report to Rijkswaterstaat. Thank you very much for this. Your notification: For security reasons, a portal has been removed for two games of Niantic (pokemon go and ingress). This is because it can be dangerous to sail to the lock at Amerongen with small boats. There is now a discussion whether this location should be returned for a game. It might be useful if you, as the Directorate-General for Public Works and Water Management, also give your opinion. See the discussion at https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/37690/appeal-removal-waterstuw-amerongen What do you think if people come to this location for the games mentioned? Our response: Everyone is free to use the waterway, provided that they comply with the applicable rules. Based on this question, we cannot estimate whether the safety and smoothness of shipping traffic would (or could) be endangered. The location itself is not accessible to visitors and therefore it cannot actually be included in a virtual game environment. The lock and weir complex is not a public area and is only accessible to authorized persons. Visits can only take place under supervision. Entering the site under supervision to visit the portal is not an option. Concentrations of the public in small and/or large boats near the lock just to get hold of an item in the context of a game is not a desirable situation. People focus on playing and are therefore not directly concerned with the other waterway users. As a result, safety is compromised. If the portal is located on public land, the municipality is responsible for preventing any nuisance that may result from a visit by players. We trust to have informed you sufficiently. Sincerely, National Information Line Rijkswaterstaat If you have any questions, comments, ideas or suggestions, please contact the National Information Line of Rijkswaterstaat. We can be reached by telephone from Monday to Friday from 07:00 to 20:00 and on Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays from 10:00 to 18:30 via our free telephone number 0800-8002. You can also use the contact form on our website www.rijkswaterstaat.nl
and in Dutch:
Geachte heer/mevrouw Sander,
U heeft een melding gedaan bij Rijkswaterstaat.
Hartelijk dank hiervoor.
Uw melding:
Vanwege veiligheidsredenen heeft men voor twee spelen van Niantic (pokemon go en ingress) een portal verwijderd. Dit omdat het gevaarlijk kan zijn om met kleine bootjes naar de sluis bij Amerongen te varen. Er is nu een discussie ontstaan of voor een spel deze locatie terug moet komen. Misschien handig als u als rijkswaterstaat ook uw mening geeft. Zie de discussie op https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/37690/appeal-removal-waterstuw-amerongen
Wat vind u ervan als op deze locatie mensen gaan komen voor de genoemde spelen? Onze reactie:
Het is een ieder vrij om zich op de vaarweg te begeven, mits men zich aan de geldende regels houdt.
Op basis van deze vraag kunnen we niet inschatten of de veiligheid en de vlotheid van het scheepvaartverkeer in gevaar zou (kunnen) worden gebracht. De locatie an sich is niet toegankelijk voor bezoekers en daarom kan het eigenlijk niet opgenomen worden in een virtuele spelomgeving.
Het sluis- stuwcomplex is geen openbaar terrein en alleen toegankelijk voor bevoegde personen. Bezoek kan enkel plaatsvinden onder begeleiding. Het onder begeleiding betreden van het terrein om de portal te bezoeken is geen optie.
Concentraties van publiek in kleine en of grote bootjes nabij de sluis enkel en alleen om een item te bemachtigen in het kader van een spel is geen gewenste situatie. Men richt zich op het spelen en is dus niet direct bezig met de andere vaarweggebruikers. Daardoor komt de veiligheid in het gedrang.
Indien de portal zich op openbaar terrein bevindt, is de gemeente verantwoordelijk voor het tegengaan van eventuele overlast die het brengen van bezoek door spelers met zich mee kan brengen.
Wij vertrouwen erop u hiermee voldoende te hebben geïnformeerd.
Met vriendelijke groet,
Landelijke Informatielijn Rijkswaterstaat
Bij vragen, opmerkingen, ideeën of suggesties kunt u contact opnemen met de Landelijke Informatielijn van Rijkswaterstaat. Wij zijn van maandag tot en met vrijdag telefonisch bereikbaar van 07.00 tot 20.00 uur en op zaterdag, zondag en feestdagen van 10.00 tot 18.30 uur via ons gratis telefoonnummer 0800-8002. U kunt ook het contactformulier gebruiken op onze website www.rijkswaterstaat.nl
Thank you @Sandhil for posting the official reaction from RWS.
Your question:
For MU ;) security reasons, a portal has been removed for two games of Niantic (pokemon go and ingress).
This is because it can be dangerous to sail to the lock at Amerongen with small boats.
What do you think if people come to this location for the games mentioned?
[edits by hixp]
Why do you ask about sailing to the lock when the portal was not in range near the lock but at the Weir? As TheSenseiNL already said in a comment.
This is the reaction from RWS:
Everyone is free to use the waterway, provided that they comply with the applicable rules. Based on this question, we cannot estimate whether the safety and smoothness of shipping traffic would (or could) be endangered.
The location itself is not accessible to visitors and therefore it cannot actually be included in a virtual game environment. The lock and weir complex is not a public area and is only accessible to authorized persons.
Concentrations of the public in small and/or large boats near the lock just to get hold of an item in the context of a game is not a desirable situation.
So the official point of view is that the location on land is not and will not be accessible for outsiders only for authorized personnel.
And the waterway is free to use as long as you comply with the rules and the shipping in or near the lock is not endangered or hindered.
There are no signs at the side of the Weir that boating is forbidden.
No ENL agent has been on land at the complex.
No ENL agents where ever near the lock in boats.
(pic) The top waterway is the lock, the bottom one is the Weir.
The Weir is only in use for a couple of times each year. When it is closed the waterway is completely sealed off, so there are no currents or other dangers.
To open such a structure automatically without supervision would be a major security risk so this is controlled on site. The two others weirs (Hagenstein and Driel) in this system are also remotely controlled from here.
Many portals exist that agents cannot legally or safely stand on in that exact GPS location, but are still able to have the portal safely in range. Inside buildings, behind gates, military bases, closed grounds, near water and others.
This exact portal location is safely accessible for authorized personnel of the Weir.
And this portal is safely and legally accessible (in range) for agents on the water.
Please reinstate.
PS thank you to all the Res agents concerned with our safety, it was completely unnecessary but thanks anyways!
What you said is not correct, you are allowed there with a small boat. Also, exaggeration is only to put the fear of God into the Niantic Wayfarer people. Why don't you and the crew of RES just admit that you are wilfully removing strategic portals, instead of lying here on this forum about loosing lives. The only one here loosing is you guys removing portals, because that's the only way it seems you can win. If you are so concerned about peoples lives, maybe remove the strategic res portals on military terrains ;-). Just a thought.
If the portal is not accessible and can only be reached by dinghy or boat then IMO it should be removed. I don't think anyone wants people to drown while playing.
it's not about how to get to a portal.. using a boat is not a problem at all, portals are removed anyway by Rijkswaterstaat, a dutch government organisation.
Comments
So funny to read all these enl salty tears over losing their precious portal, providing proof of a safe pedestrian route "for employees" (glossing over the fact that they are NOT employees and therefore probably cannot use this route legally) while actually using a dinghy to reach the portal that is next to a Hydroelectric Power Plant.
My guess is enl will blame res for removing this portal when it's more likely the owner of the site that requested the removal, bc too many times there were dangerous situations with small dinghies and probably some peeps climbing onto the site to take a picture with the enl flag, as is enl tradition.
And if it was RES, we learned this methods from you enl.
Quit crying about your precious Mind Units and portal and find another one ASAP, winning THE next cycle is ofc. much more in important than pointless whining.
Go go go
#savethecycle 💚💚
How should it be special? Both factions do this kind of stuff. I can't wait to take notice about the next "removal by Res" post.. it's part of the game, I guess. Deal with it.
Still have seen no evidence that the portal is safe for the public to visit. The argument so far seems to be " please reinstate the portal as it was helping us win" without regard for safety....
I doubt NIA will reinstate the portal, even though the portal is perfectly and safely accessible if you own a boat, work for any of the companies maintaining the environment around the portal or even during privately arranged tours.
Nonetheless I think it is important to voice out that portal removals purely because it is used in/for a field setup or as stratigic link etc, and is difficult to reach, should not be part of normal gameplay, independent of the faction that (at any point) uses such a portal. Too many beautiful portals have been removed by these types of actions and it takes away from the pleasure of actually playing the game the way it was intended.
“Hey guys I just posted an appeal. Please upvote and also say you want this back because this portal is the reason we all can live here. Oh and don’t forget to downvote all comments from the opposing factions! We need to win the battle on the forums too! Our whole existence of our faction depends on it!”
“Hey guys, the opposing factions just posted an appeal. Let’s downvote everything and tell them to stop complaining and get over it!”
Go play ingress lol
ENL had won over 130 cycles on a row there, I think you're missing the point ;')
If the pin was on the middle structure than yes, it would be a bit of a PITA portal, and also a classic example of "no pedestrian access". On that basis, it seems like a Waypoint that meets Niantic removal criteria.
Lol, i do think winning cycles isn't only one portal ;)
Still, portals get removed because the actual object isn't there anymore, rules or ground owner decides to remove them. "we, the players of the game" only help ground owners to take notice about the dangerous things that are happening on their ground.
If you can't win the game without a good PITA (i love good pita), your motivation isn't good enough to win something.. But, the green faction even want to reinstate portals that absolutely don't exist anymore.
The Dutch and watermanagement.
I truly don't understand this discussion. It's clear that this portal is pre-defined significant for the Dutch people in general and has great potential of history.
Bring back at once.
Best regards,
A lot of speculation and “maybe some colored reactions” about this removal. I had nothing to do with this removal request but I asked RWS (Dutch government) for a official reaction. Here is the English translation:
Dear Mr/Mrs Sander, You have submitted a report to Rijkswaterstaat. Thank you very much for this. Your notification: For security reasons, a portal has been removed for two games of Niantic (pokemon go and ingress). This is because it can be dangerous to sail to the lock at Amerongen with small boats. There is now a discussion whether this location should be returned for a game. It might be useful if you, as the Directorate-General for Public Works and Water Management, also give your opinion. See the discussion at https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/37690/appeal-removal-waterstuw-amerongen What do you think if people come to this location for the games mentioned? Our response: Everyone is free to use the waterway, provided that they comply with the applicable rules. Based on this question, we cannot estimate whether the safety and smoothness of shipping traffic would (or could) be endangered. The location itself is not accessible to visitors and therefore it cannot actually be included in a virtual game environment. The lock and weir complex is not a public area and is only accessible to authorized persons. Visits can only take place under supervision. Entering the site under supervision to visit the portal is not an option. Concentrations of the public in small and/or large boats near the lock just to get hold of an item in the context of a game is not a desirable situation. People focus on playing and are therefore not directly concerned with the other waterway users. As a result, safety is compromised. If the portal is located on public land, the municipality is responsible for preventing any nuisance that may result from a visit by players. We trust to have informed you sufficiently. Sincerely, National Information Line Rijkswaterstaat If you have any questions, comments, ideas or suggestions, please contact the National Information Line of Rijkswaterstaat. We can be reached by telephone from Monday to Friday from 07:00 to 20:00 and on Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays from 10:00 to 18:30 via our free telephone number 0800-8002. You can also use the contact form on our website www.rijkswaterstaat.nl
and in Dutch:
Geachte heer/mevrouw Sander,
U heeft een melding gedaan bij Rijkswaterstaat.
Hartelijk dank hiervoor.
Uw melding:
Vanwege veiligheidsredenen heeft men voor twee spelen van Niantic (pokemon go en ingress) een portal verwijderd. Dit omdat het gevaarlijk kan zijn om met kleine bootjes naar de sluis bij Amerongen te varen. Er is nu een discussie ontstaan of voor een spel deze locatie terug moet komen. Misschien handig als u als rijkswaterstaat ook uw mening geeft. Zie de discussie op https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/37690/appeal-removal-waterstuw-amerongen
Wat vind u ervan als op deze locatie mensen gaan komen voor de genoemde spelen? Onze reactie:
Het is een ieder vrij om zich op de vaarweg te begeven, mits men zich aan de geldende regels houdt.
Op basis van deze vraag kunnen we niet inschatten of de veiligheid en de vlotheid van het scheepvaartverkeer in gevaar zou (kunnen) worden gebracht. De locatie an sich is niet toegankelijk voor bezoekers en daarom kan het eigenlijk niet opgenomen worden in een virtuele spelomgeving.
Het sluis- stuwcomplex is geen openbaar terrein en alleen toegankelijk voor bevoegde personen. Bezoek kan enkel plaatsvinden onder begeleiding. Het onder begeleiding betreden van het terrein om de portal te bezoeken is geen optie.
Concentraties van publiek in kleine en of grote bootjes nabij de sluis enkel en alleen om een item te bemachtigen in het kader van een spel is geen gewenste situatie. Men richt zich op het spelen en is dus niet direct bezig met de andere vaarweggebruikers. Daardoor komt de veiligheid in het gedrang.
Indien de portal zich op openbaar terrein bevindt, is de gemeente verantwoordelijk voor het tegengaan van eventuele overlast die het brengen van bezoek door spelers met zich mee kan brengen.
Wij vertrouwen erop u hiermee voldoende te hebben geïnformeerd.
Met vriendelijke groet,
Landelijke Informatielijn Rijkswaterstaat
Bij vragen, opmerkingen, ideeën of suggesties kunt u contact opnemen met de Landelijke Informatielijn van Rijkswaterstaat. Wij zijn van maandag tot en met vrijdag telefonisch bereikbaar van 07.00 tot 20.00 uur en op zaterdag, zondag en feestdagen van 10.00 tot 18.30 uur via ons gratis telefoonnummer 0800-8002. U kunt ook het contactformulier gebruiken op onze website www.rijkswaterstaat.nl
Thank you @Sandhil for posting the official reaction from RWS.
Your question:
For
MU ;)security reasons, a portal has been removed for two games of Niantic (pokemon go and ingress).This is because it can be dangerous to sail to the lock at Amerongen with small boats.
What do you think if people come to this location for the games mentioned?
[edits by hixp]
Why do you ask about sailing to the lock when the portal was not in range near the lock but at the Weir? As TheSenseiNL already said in a comment.
This is the reaction from RWS:
Everyone is free to use the waterway, provided that they comply with the applicable rules. Based on this question, we cannot estimate whether the safety and smoothness of shipping traffic would (or could) be endangered.
The location itself is not accessible to visitors and therefore it cannot actually be included in a virtual game environment. The lock and weir complex is not a public area and is only accessible to authorized persons.
Concentrations of the public in small and/or large boats near the lock just to get hold of an item in the context of a game is not a desirable situation.
So the official point of view is that the location on land is not and will not be accessible for outsiders only for authorized personnel.
And the waterway is free to use as long as you comply with the rules and the shipping in or near the lock is not endangered or hindered.
There are no signs at the side of the Weir that boating is forbidden.
No ENL agent has been on land at the complex.
No ENL agents where ever near the lock in boats.
(pic) The top waterway is the lock, the bottom one is the Weir.
The Weir is only in use for a couple of times each year. When it is closed the waterway is completely sealed off, so there are no currents or other dangers.
To open such a structure automatically without supervision would be a major security risk so this is controlled on site. The two others weirs (Hagenstein and Driel) in this system are also remotely controlled from here.
So to conclude.
Many portals exist that agents cannot legally or safely stand on in that exact GPS location, but are still able to have the portal safely in range. Inside buildings, behind gates, military bases, closed grounds, near water and others.
This exact portal location is safely accessible for authorized personnel of the Weir.
And this portal is safely and legally accessible (in range) for agents on the water.
Please reinstate.
PS thank you to all the Res agents concerned with our safety, it was completely unnecessary but thanks anyways!
What you said is not correct, you are allowed there with a small boat. Also, exaggeration is only to put the fear of God into the Niantic Wayfarer people. Why don't you and the crew of RES just admit that you are wilfully removing strategic portals, instead of lying here on this forum about loosing lives. The only one here loosing is you guys removing portals, because that's the only way it seems you can win. If you are so concerned about peoples lives, maybe remove the strategic res portals on military terrains ;-). Just a thought.
How was this portal ever removed? It's awesome.
Its the same way ENL behaves about res minded PITA all the time, we learned this from your faction. And sea, it works! See how we learn: https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/33782#Comment_33782
If the portal is not accessible and can only be reached by dinghy or boat then IMO it should be removed. I don't think anyone wants people to drown while playing.
it's not about how to get to a portal.. using a boat is not a problem at all, portals are removed anyway by Rijkswaterstaat, a dutch government organisation.
1.4k views which comes from 50+ agents, and still no decision yet? @NianticLC @NianticOtoStar
Hey @hixp-ING! We gave this another look and stand by our decision as this was correctly removed. Thanks!