Visually Unique: Trail or Trail Marker
PinkBubbleT-PGO
Posts: 3 ✭✭
Trying to get things right here. So… what do you do?
When reviewing trail markers, how on Earth do you honestly complete the visually unique criteria? The trail markers are mass produced and totally a one star. But the trails they mark are absolutely unique; each view different and worth multiple stars.
How do you score this?
Comments
Ignore visually unique and give it a 5 if I'm passing it.
Generally 1*, especially if they blend into their environment.
That field doesn't really affect the outcome much, if at all.
Then give it 5?
I think that category still causes lots of confusion because it is so badly phrased.
If you are going to pass the nomination overall, I usually just gove 4 stars to unique and to cultural/historical
It really just means can you visually find the object.
they meet the criteria because they promote exercise and exploring they act as an anchor for the trail itself. they usually have different numbers or names of trails.on them which make them unique you can give them a 5 or a 4 star rating if you're not too sure you can always just give it 3 stars to be neutral
@The26thDoctor-PGO Why would I choose to rate something inaccurately? If I think something isn't visually unique then I'm going to rate it as such.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the website say visually unique actually means able to be seen or something like that? Even still, you can't know for sure that you selecting 1 star for that isn't a rejection, if not outright, it might drop the overall rating
You said it has no effect, if any so why bother?
https://wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/new/help/reviewing-a-wayspot-nomination
Visual Uniqueness
Does the nomination stand out from its surroundings? Wayspots that are easy to locate and visually distinct from the buildings and objects nearby make high-quality Wayspots and should be rated highly. If you think the nomination looks bland and will be hard to locate, give it a lower rating.
That is what visual uniqueness means. When you stand at the location, how easy is it to find it. "If you look very hard, you can see another one 200 m away." does not warrant a 1* rating. Maybe subtract a star for that. If it is similar in color to the background, and harder to locate because of that, you can also subtract a star in the visual uniqueness category.
If I remember correctly, during the pre-Wayfarer days, there was an example with streetlights. When you have streetlights every 20 or 30 meters, and you see a picture of one of them, then which one is it? That warrants a low rating. Not whether others exist but can't be seen from your location.
That’s why they say nominate a picture of the field number for multiple ball fields.
@TWVer-ING What about when the trail marker blends into the background and you can't see it easily? I've encountered plenty of those in the wild. For me those are no-brainer 1* for visual uniqueness.
Must be a nightmare following those trails. Spending 10 minutes at every intersection trying to find the trail marker, and then looking up the trail map on your phone out of desperation. Amazing that you still managed to encounter plenty of them. You must have hawk eyes.
It says "give it a lower rating", not "rate it 1*".
Personally I'm either a 5* or 1* reviewer. If I'm accepting it Historic/cultural and visual are getting a 5*.
If it's not going through those don't matter anyway.
I'm probably a bad reviewer but Niantic's quantity over quality and lack of support for the system mean I don't care about being a woeful reviewer :)
I think trail markers should be Wayspot positively.
Trail markers are very good objects from a search and locomotion point of view.
There are a few opinions that give low ratings because it is mass-produced, but I think there is no problem.
And trail markers have a unique characteristic that the more they are, the more effective they are.
As the number of trail markers that become Wayspots increases, synergistic effects between spots will occur, which will encourage more exploration and exercise.
When submitting a trail marker, please take a picture so that the subject is large.
If you have vegetation, we recommend removing it.
That’s useful. I think I had focused too much of the literal meaning of unique.
I believe this topic is one that Niantic really needs to get figured out because we cannot see these from Google maps. Typically I will 3* anything that isn’t visible but I hate doing that, especially on a great nomination.
reading this, and thinking of all the "State Survey Markers" that are a metal disk not much bigger than 50mm/2 inches, and the difficulty a person can have locating that SSM when GPS accuracy is generally about +/- 10m (32.8 feet) but can sometimes be as little as +/- 1m (3.28feet), and they are located within a man-made environment, then logic would tell you it should be a 1 star rating for visual uniqueness. Also these SSM are located on the top edge of the curb/gutters of the streets within suburban neighbourhoods, thus making their safetly highly questionable. Yet they litter some suburbs like fleas on a stray dogs back!
so there are what? a dozen or so identical trail markers within a few square feet and you can identify which one is being nominated? i can't say i've seen any nominations like that but if that is what you are seeing, then 1* for visually unique seems appropriate.
If that is the case, then sure, 1* for visually unique is appropriate. But what would be the point of that? This is one of these exagerations just to prove a point.
The visually Unique means that it is unique in that area, NOT in itself. Which is why streetviews are so useful when you want to prove its location and uniqueness. National UK Trails use their own Trail Markers. The Centenary Way, The Monarch's Way etc. Plus also there are many unique trails that Utilize Public Waymarkers also. An example of this is the Seven Shires Way. https://ldwa.org.uk/ldp/members/show_path.php?path_name=Seven+Shires+Way The way markers arent usually in close proximity to each other BUT they are unique in each location. Do a 360 streetview :) I hope that helps
5* if it's the only trail marker in the area. As it's uniqueness to the area you are voting on.
If there are other similar trail markers nearby, like in the possible duplicates shown, I usually give a lower mark.
Most are at a different angle or have something else like wear and tear that makes it stand out from others so it's easy to give them a 4* but on the few cases where there are loads of them and some look almost identical, I have gone as low as 1* before.
From the Wayfarer ratings page: "A visually unique nomination should not be something that is common in the area."
This doesn't necessarily indicate that it's related to how easy it is to spot due to size, colour, etc.; simply that it's not a common object in that particular area. On the other hand, it could be argued that colour or size are properties that could be 'common'.
If there's going to be a place to provide clarification, the ratings page would be the best place to start... how many reviewers are going to go digging through these community pages searching for these answers? Each ratings section could even have a hyperlink to a page with greater explanation. Updates to any explanations could be easily indicated on the ratings page: "Updated! [date]"
It's right there on the "Reviewing a Wayspot Nomination" page: https://wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/new/help/reviewing-a-wayspot-nomination
I wouldn't be surprised if over 90% of reviewers have never opened that page.
But I do agree with you that the review page has lots of room for improvement.
Oh, completely understood. But not even an hour ago, I rejected a nomination for (the south door of) a school. It was _described_ as a school. Other reviewers had even _categorized_ it as both a "middle school" and "elementary school". It's a SCHOOL. This should have been so obvious and easy, and yet... ugh.
Even having a link on the review page to exactly that which you provided would be beneficial (including bookmark to open at the specific relevant header). I think a lot of people will go through the "Criteria" pages (this used to be mandatory?), but not necessarily the "Help" pages. I mean, if they feel that they already understand, why would they go to a section called "Help"? I think this is exactly why "over 90% of reviewers have never opened that page".
I don't think the "How to Review" pages should be tucked away in "Help" section, but instead should be moved/copied to the "Criteria" section, or even be a section unto itself; this is, after all, the core function of the Wayfinder review page.
If there's one thing I've learned over the years of writing various technical & procedural documentation, it's that information needs to be very obviously presented and available.
Anyway, I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here.
The whole idea around the trail markers is to bring the trail route to viable to use in niantic games. Missions in Ingress, Route Quest in PoGo. etc etc. Some trail markers can be 30-50 metres on from one marker location, or even closer. Each one in itself is unique in its location. (street name/location the marker is at or on etc) So please think twice when marking down directional waymarkers near eachother. Thats the idea , to promote exercise ofc. To the next one and the next.
I give trail markers 5* for should it be a wayspot question.
As per this thread title, my post was saying I might vote lower on the 'visually unique' section. This vote plays no part in if a submission gets accepted or rejected, so not an issue in that respect
Yet another topic where Wayfarer doesn't act rationally, and we have to figure out workarounds, and share them over and over.
I've recently had TWO Trail Markers rejected as "Abuse" , due to putting in links IN my Supporting information (via wayfarer) to recent discussions on this subject of Direction Waymarkers of Set Trails, locally OR Nationally. I ONLY do this as i know there are many reviewers out there, still stuck in the mindset of "Oh its not unique" or "Generic/ Mass Produced"... I take my time to go out to these locations, take photos and do dozens of 360 streetviews to give evidence of these markers at these locations. I even give a link to a photo of a map of the local trails based at the nearby Pub. But no, none of that matters, they arent good enough to be in game for some of these various stuck up reviewers who look down on nominators like myself that actually keep up with the constant change and evolution of eligible and acceptable POIs/Directional Trail Markers. I'm tired of repeating myself and constantly arguing to try and update said reviewer views on this subject. Help @NianticGiffard @NianticTintino-ING
PS. I feel that those that chose and continually use the "Abuse" option to disown nominations they simply dont agree with or like... should be suspended for several weeks, due to wrecking now my rating and others.