Too much rejection



  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Remember that rejection reasons aren't reliable information. Niantic seems to do a bad job of choosing which ones to show you, and some of them could be as simple as one reviewer mis-clicking.

    As someone who reviews a lot I can tell you that I've rejected a lot of stuff that could possibly have been a good candidate but the submission itself was so low-quality that I had to reject it. Imagine a historical plaque so dark and blurry that I couldn't even read the title... I've seen that more than once. I reject a lot of stuff because it's impossible to confirm the location, often because the submitter just turned around and took a picture of the sidewalk or lawn next to them rather than showing the submission in its larger context. When I get legitimate candidates rejected I typically review the quality of my submission to see what tripped reviewers up and look for ways that I could have presented it better and I often discover that I've overlooked something that would have made it harder for reviewers to accept my submission.

    I'm not saying that some things aren't incorrectly rejected... certainly they are. On the other hand, I have no doubt that there are people out there fuming because their red "great nominations" of Target balls, street signs, middle schools, Walmarts, trees, and apartment complex signs were incorrectly rejected.

  • MoogModular-INGMoogModular-ING Posts: 55 ✭✭✭

    I just don't understand how you have this information that you simply report it as a post? There was a neighborhood near me that had POIs in the incorrect locations - Niantic fixed all of them after a post was made on here.

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MoogModular-ING I gathered a boatload of information then got busy with other things and haven't finished assembling it into a comprehensive document. Plus I keep coming across more fakes while I'm reviewing.

    For the first round that I reported in this area they took down 67 wayspots. They also spanked a bunch of wayfarers, but obviously not hard enough to get them to stop their shenanigans.

  • 82quuu-PGO82quuu-PGO Posts: 219 ✭✭✭

    I am conscious of applying for objects that are "definitely approved".

    Select candidates that you can nominate with confidence, such as temples, jizo, trail markers, etc.

    Of course, that's why I try to understand the Wayspot standards very well.

  • 000GreenBttm18-PGO000GreenBttm18-PGO Posts: 56 ✭✭✭

    I'm just gonna point this out, since you don't seem to have identified it yet.

    You're complaining about something, while simultaneously acknowledging the problem fueling your argument has a solution that works, which you are actively employing.

    We have a last line of defense,after approval. Community edits and reports.

    And unlike edits and new proposals, if fake wayspots exist in game, ANY player can report them, regardless of level.

    And unlike your already repairable problem, incorrectly rejected nominations do not have a reasonable solution. Appeals are limited to 1 a month, and have a growing backlog that exceeds half a year.

    Regardless, if an upgrade was employed, and the nomination was needlessly rejected, that wayfinder has now thrown away all the time they invested in the 100+ reviews they completed to be awarded that upgrade. It is gone forever, all in vein, with no remedy, even in the slightest.

    The idea anyone's rejections could exceed their approvals is startling, and honestly quite disheartening. it implies that you've done far more harm to this community than good.

    but then taking that a step further and publicly advocating that other follow you, go against niantic's instructions, and decimate a process that has no solution, to fix something that already does... is just obscene and senseless.

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @000GreenBttm18-PGO I see what you're saying, but I don't think it's quite accurate.

    The criteria for removing a wayspot are much more restrictive than the rejection criteria. Let's take red Target balls as an example-- if someone manages to get one approved today we're stuck with it because it doesn't meet the removal criteria. I can also speak to the difficulty of getting fake wayspots rejected, as I've done oneoff reports of several obvious fakes and those reports were rejected despite my providing solid evidence that the wayspot did not exist.

    But, to spin this around, there is a remedy for something that was incorrectly rejected and you mentioned it yourself-- appeal. It may not be a quick process but it's overall more effective than the process for removing fakes. In most but not all cases it's actually easy to re-submit things, and given the ridiculously high number of submissions that people have this shouldn't be a big impediment. I would also argue that doing ~150 reviews to earn an upgrade is not wasted time at all, as it contributes to the creation of new wayspots.

    Also, please show me where I suggested that I was going against Niantic's instructions, or advocating that others do so? I was actually advocating for exactly the opposite-- that people apply Niantic's criteria as accurately as possible.

    Note that my "more rejections than acceptances" is based on AGREEMENTS not on votes. Those are cases where I've rejected things and the consensus of reviewers was that they should be rejected. Here's my challenge to you-- keep a list of the next 100 things that you vote to accept, and I'll keep a list of the next 100 things I vote to reject. At the end of the process we can compare notes. You up for it?

  • Gubisoul-PGOGubisoul-PGO Posts: 3 ✭✭

    I am new to wayfarer, when I as a reviewer review, who does the final review, because It seems a lot of my accepted pokestops are getting rejected by a second step in the process (which is fair if I am doing a terrible job). But I would like to see the result, so community agreed with your assesment on these, but not these to learn from my mistakes.

    But I do not think I am making many mistakes, I read the critieria and A LOT of waypoint should be accepted. A swing on a public field yes it is a waypoint, because it is a great place to be active for kids. ( I tend to score them lower than 5 stars, but they should not be outright rejected)

    I think too few people are reading the eligibility criteria, and it shows on the forums, where a lot of people are talking about coal, like diamonds (5 stars) is the only waypoint that has value.

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Gubisoul-PGO You are correct that a swingset on a public field should be accepted, unless it's part of a playground that's already a wayspot or the public field is actually part of a K-12 school.

    Here is a list of some coal that I have rejected recently:

    • A fake submission for a pub. The submission used photos from the internet (a guaranteed rejection), and the pin was placed over 2km from the actual pub... which is already a wayspot.
    • A sign post that just has some house numbers on it.
    • Multiple fire hydrants.
    • A lot entrance signs for apartment complexes and subdivisions, including one that claimed to be a COVID memorial.
    • A dollar bill on a sidewalk.
    • Multiple trees.
    • The pickup area at a Walmart.
    • A high-pressure water pipe.
    • An irrigation duct (twice!)
    • A fake that used an image from Hong Kong and pinned it in California.
    • A disabled parking sign.
    • A urology clinic.
    • A Burger King that used photos of someone's screen.

    Every single thing on that list was a no-brainer 1* rejection, though sometimes I had to decide which of several possible rejection reasons to use.

    Yes, it would be nice to be able to see the results of your reviews to see where you disagreed, or even just to know how many times you disagreed.

  • onecino-INGonecino-ING Posts: 219 Ambassador

    I happen to have both - streaks of rejected eligible portals and streaks of everything being approved. As @Hosette-ING mentioned, a presentation, additional details, links to websites with supporting evidence or information that was not added in the description and most importantly additional StreetView (especially in rural/forrest/newly developed areas) help a ton.

    I've had multiple Wayspots rejected by trolls with reasons as private residential property for sports grounds, or abuse for something that is being widely being accepted in various parts of my country. Fortunately, there's the Appeal button and I've had several already added to the game, but we know that the wait time is rather considerable.

    I fully agree there's too little rejection - ineligible things are being accepted, then the vicious circle begins as more players submit more of the ineligible as those were already approved somewhere else. And with the acceptance criteria being different from removal criteria it's then impossible to have majority of Wayspots, that should have never made it to the network in first place, removed.

    These games were supposed to be about exploration, going to new places, looking around. Sadly some players care more about having ultra-dense locations rather than to go out and discover new places.

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