General bike/walk waypoint-signs
Zjoen-PGO
Posts: 9 ✭✭
Hi Guys,
I started contributing to Wayfarer today and here in the Netherlands people tend to put a Pokestop on every normal/plain-looking way sign of a bike or walk route. If I understand correctly, these are not vibrant places to meet people or have any historical value. Plus it's not very safe to be there with a lot of people. Thus I reject them with 1 star.
I get one out of two nominations to be a sign like this I turn down a lot of nominations... I hope I am doing this right, and if not I find it very strange. Any thoughts?
Comments
Could you please post a few examples? The consensus I got when I asked about mile markers on paths was that they are all acceptable Wayspots even when it is just a simple sign marking the mileage every 0.1 miles. So I guess the fact that it is a good place to exercise means it doesn't matter that it's normal looking. But when I tried to nominate a Wear Your Helmet sign which was specific to a particular city it was rejected for being a generic safety sign. So to me, the situation is still pretty murky.
Threads I referenced:
I tried to google one, the one above could go as an example. I read the guidelines and it states: Reasons to reject:
" Location does not invite to explore, sport, or get together. The object is commercial, generic, or visually not unique/interesting. "
I have done a lot of moderating and have enough experience to see that the Dutchies feel that this is somehow bordering the guidelines as being an 'information board' and that it can make people 'move'. But it is absolutely not an attractive object. So why would it become a pokestop (or other POI)? It feels like it makes no sense to give a free pass to every upload of a mere waypoint... just because it 'invites' people to move.
I doesn't matter that the sign doesn't look appealing. The sign is just a placemarker for that section of the trail. It is a trail marker for a cycling trail. That makes it a great place to exercise.
From the criteria:
A great place for exercise
A place you'd go to get some fresh air, stretch your legs, or exercise. Places that encourage walking, exercising, and enjoying public spaces. Or something that teaches or encourages us to be our healthiest selves.
Examples of Wayspot categories
There have been plenty of clarifications about these. If you are not convinced, I and other people can link to those.
I don’t think a wayspot has to be attractive.
All football pitches look very alike grass, pitch markings and goalposts that are not bespoke. But it does encourage exercise and there is a social element too.
So trail markers like this layout a specific route and following that route encourages exercise.
So they are eligible and should be considered acceptable if presented correctly (good photo, appropriate description, verifiable location etc).
That looks fine to me but it really is dependent on your local area and how these are used. A Wayspots 'ugliness' isn't a reason for rejection.
Here in the UK we have the National Cycle Network.
Near to me part of the network goes through here, it has similar numbered signs to yours but I'd happily 5* them based on their location.
The network carries on through suburbs, roads etc with the same sign but I'd be a lot less inclined to accept those.
I think you have to view them and their merits individually and not treat them as either a concrete fail or concrete pass.
The network carries on through suburbs, roads etc with the same sign but I'd be a lot less inclined to accept those.
Why? They are an equally great place to exercise there as they are in other locations. Not everything must meet exploration criteria.
They would go from a 5* to a 2* or reject.
Not all of the network is pedestrianised some parts are more like bike lanes at the side of the road although they are still marked by NCN Whatever#
That's what I meant by viewing each individually and rating accordingly.
This is best I can do for pictures at 11pm.
For me there is a big difference between the blue NCN markers in each pic.
I'm not familiar with the NCN so I'm not entirely sure of it's purpose. But the knooppunt signs in Belgium and The Netherlands are all about exercise, so I would approve them wherever they are, as long as they don't meet rejection criteria.
Hi TWV, Thanks for your response!
I think they do meet the rejection criteria, as I mentioned in my first post. It's not a 'great' place to meet and is very generic. It differs from an actual football field as you mention because that is by default a place for sports and get together. I respect your view, and I'd like to follow whatever is wanted from me. I want to help. But accepting mere waypoints, hundreds of them, as POI's is not my view, but again if a superior here says it should be approved I will approve.
Then, the term 'exciting' is subject to lots of interpretation as the pictures on the criteria-page are all jaw-dropping beautiful images. It needs more explanation I think.
Another example below:
Niantic superiors are more than happy to add thousands of Wayspots that don't meet their own criteria.
Personally I don't mind the ones you have posted but I'm not from your area so it's hard to judge.
If you think they should be added accept them if not reject them :)
Thanks for the response Doctor,
Yea so I do reject lots of them. Sometimes it is just a bike road-sign and there is no context if the wayspot is dangerous (looking).
Plus I know people want them close to their homes to have a pokestop in front of their door. This is being somewhat misused.
I do see a lot of my reviews being rejected and I am now rated 'FAIR' in stead of 'GREAT'. And I have no idea why, it needs to have a little more moderation or explanation haha. We need to be more on one line with actual guidelines of what is okay and what is not. More examples etc.
I wouldn't worry about it too much :)
Ultimately we are not finding a cure for cancer just building a map for a company who have consistently proved they are unable or unwilling to follow their own guidelines and put profit above quality.
These look fine to me …..not great picture quality in the last one but as objects they are fine.
You should put thoughts around the possibility of someone submitting a point to get a wayspot near them to one side and focus on what you are presented with. Have they produced a clear picture, a good, accurate title and description.
If you consider that the title and description is not suitable or can’t verify location or that is unsafe then you can score those categories appropriately.
For example In some areas in the U.K. the NCN routes are along narrow lanes busy with vehicles with little space for vehicles going in opposite directions and for a pedestrian to stand. so although like many others in the area I would walk along the lanes, I would not submit one there, as it would not be considered safe, and if one was submitted would reject under the safety category.
If your rating is dropping it is likely you are not voting in line with the local community. So perhaps you need to consider that.
Whilst your rating remains at fair, it does not contribute as much to the overall scoring of a potential wayspot. I believe it also doesn’t count towards the medal in Go.
This other current thread has a similar discussion
it demonstrates that opinions vary and it doesn’t mean that one particular stance is wholly correct.
Thank you both for your thoughts, it helps for a newcomer and contributing member. I do hear some criticism towards Niantic’ approach of their own product/service. I am not surprised though, these projects are usually called ‘overhead’ and are not core business. Too bad.
I will consider the whole mile marker thing.
I am your superior. I am telling you to accept these as great places for exercise.
A wayspot only needs to meet 1 of the 3 eligibility criteria. It doesn't need to be a great place to meet (or to be social). It is a great place to exercise, and that is enough.
You must also keep in mind that it is not always the object in the photo that is nominated. Sometimes it is an object that is used as an anchor for a location. When people nominate a park, they usually submit a picture of the park sign. That park sign may look very generic, but that doesn't matter. It is the park that is being nominated. And the park isn't generic. Same with trail markers. The markers themselves might look generic, but it isn't the marker that is being nominated. It is (a section of) a trail.
Here are some comments by NianticGiffard (a former mod and Niantic employee on this forum) on the the subject:
https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/111961#Comment_111961
As you are aware, we consider any marker on a hiking trail as acceptable since our goal is to have folks explore. Even a small marker on a trail will encourage players to cover more of the trail if there are more Wayspots on the way.
In the same sense, bike trails are similar but if you have a signboard for a bike lane (along with say a highway or road), that’s not as interesting/unique as compared to a signboard for a bike trail that takes players through a new route.
This second link is for a post by a user who asked for more clarification with a ton of examples, and it is then followed up on by NianticGiffard in the third link:
https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/112676#Comment_112676
https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/113993#Comment_113993
Let me add to what I've already said, by the term "Generic signs" means regular mass-produced signs. Trail signs will be on the trail/hiking area or they may contain trail names with the direction sign or with trail numbers
From RobWaudby's examples made on 11th September, "Acceptable" and "not sure on these" are correct to be acceptable.
Regular mass-produced signs are things like the round blue signs with a bike that indicate a bike lane (fietspad).
Oh hi! I guess I should obey the princess then! I will from now on accept the markers. ;)
@TWVer-ING Thanks for the elaboration. I will from this point on not 'one star' them.
Yes, yes. Now you're getting it!