Are Niantic reviewers robots?

I'm very patient but this doesn't make sense anymore. I am a rural player in a dead cell near a city (20km) and this is what my pattern looked like: I submit a nomination, wait 2 years, reject for BS reasons, resubmit, … Upgrades are no option for shorter time - all denied for BS reasons. Then came the appeal option and after each BS rejection I submitted appeals and they were accepted (so I know how to do a quality nomination and no need for the well-meaning 'post your nomination and we'll see if we can help' ). Since the announcement that they were going to look at the backlog - I don't understand it anymore. It is very good that the backlog is addressed, but not if it is random between accept and reject. Here are 2 (3) examples: the only street map in our small village rejected without reason - not in mail or in nominationpage self - (this was rectified/accepted after comment), now a youth center has also been rejected without reason. Am I so mistaken or are these not 4* or 5* nominations that should be directly accepted? A third I nominated on vacation was an Interbellum house, provided the link to the heritage notation and it was rejected for 'private property'. Now for the latter I saw that there were other people with the same result for similar nominations. It should be clear that this reason should only be used if one needs to enter someone's property to see the POI or it is clearly an object in someone's front yard for example. There are thousands of approved POIs of wall paintings, facade ornaments, wall chapels, etc. Well, most of them are even part of private property, should they all be canceled - that makes no sense? I thought wayfarer's main purpose was to encourage people to visit poi; what could be more interesting: a building left over from the Interbellum (period between wars) or the thousandth trail marker? So at least 2 (maybe 3) nominations had 'strange' rejections in my opinion. So with my own experience and the messages I read on the forum I ask myself whether to quickly clear the backlog one does random accept / reject or is it a robot that clearly cannot see nuances?

There has to come an 'appeal the appeal' or do it correct the first time Niantic ...

Comments

  • 29andCounting-PGO29andCounting-PGO Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are you saying those nominations were rejected on appeal? No, I don’t think it is robots but I think it is a staffer who doesn’t know the full ins and outs of Wayfarer. I find that adding a few key words to the title helps them to see its eligibility. For example, Community Center rather than Youth Center.

  • 29andCounting-PGO29andCounting-PGO Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Also, some houses can be historical, but if a single family still lives in the house, it is not eligible. Try to show (prove) that it is not a single family residence such as multiple parking spaces, multiple mailboxes, etc

  • Elijustrying-INGElijustrying-ING Posts: 4,356 Ambassador
    edited February 2

    i think the best way to do an appeal is to address each rejection reason providing link to proof if needs be.

    I have a hunch that they work on the basis that the original decision was potentially correct so they want to see specifically why they got it wrong.

    Yes it’s good to get results from the backlog but it is likely to be be done by one person in a very different part of the world. This means that some aspects of a submission don’t make sense. But of course we didn’t know that’s would happen over 2 years ago.

    Post edited by Elijustrying-ING on
  • MargariteDVille-INGMargariteDVille-ING Posts: 2,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, I have worked on converting systems to AI, and I believe Niantic has been training AI, to at least be a first pass in reviewing (doing the obvious pass or fails, and passing the middle to us crowd-sourced reviewers).

    AI is trained by feeding it 8 (or more) million inputs with their yes/no results.

    Input would be the nomination, several map programs, google search, image search, plus things we don't know about.

    The AI spits out its decision (accept or reject) AND a percent confidence. If it says it only has 60% confidence - that's one you want to pass on to human reviewers. Then that nomination/results are added to the AI database, to help it get smarter.

    But first - you test the training with a million inputs (that weren't in the training) with known results, to see if AI matches the expected results. Tweak what isn't working, test again with another million... wash, rinse, repeat.

    Opening up appeals should be great for training AI.

    AI training always takes longer than the vendor (Google, etc) says. And, it's Niantic. So who knows how long we'll be in the wash, rinse, repeat cycle.

  • The26thDoctor-PGOThe26thDoctor-PGO Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Went would they build an AI system for something that isn't that important to them?

  • GokuAragorn-PGOGokuAragorn-PGO Posts: 26 ✭✭

    Thanks for the comments; most of you are clearly missing the point I was trying to make: before AMA December you could count on Niantic Review/appeal to be accurate, afterwards not anymore. Meanwhile the forum is full of questionable decisions/appeals.

    Now since Niantic says to reply to 40% I’m awaiting the answer as to why these 2 nominations are rejected:

     Boomkapel langs wandelroute 2020-12-10 and Clubhuis jeugdbeweging 2020-11-24

    Do they not meet 1 or more criteria @NianticLC @NianticOtoStar @NianticTintino-ING or an Ambassador? With each nomination you got an accurate title, a clear photo, clarifying information, a photo of accessibility with poi included, an accurate location pin and additional information with a web link to website or web link in google maps.

    And no, resubmit and waiting another 2 years is unacceptable.


  • GokuAragorn-PGOGokuAragorn-PGO Posts: 26 ✭✭

    @29andCounting-PGO Thank you for the respons. I understand the suggestion to change the title but I don't want to change it to increase the chance of succes for approval, I want to give the 'discoverer' the best possible descriptive title and in my country a Community center is not the same as a youth center/house (more like the boy scouts).

  • Ochemist-INGOchemist-ING Posts: 344 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If it's similar to a boy scout building, several years ago it was clarified that if they are mostly used for scouting activities that they aren't eligible for the same reason that K-12 schools aren't eligible. If yours is a center that caters solely or mostly to kids, it might not eligible at all.


    Q56: Can we have a clarification on whether all properties owned by Scouts and Guides should be marked as "K12" please?

    A56: I am told that if they’re full-time Cadet or Scout buildings where the primary purpose is gathering of people in the K-12 age range with a membership component, it would be considered similar to a private daycare center and ineligible. However, if it’s a public gathering place that’s occasionally used for Scout or Guide meetings, then yes it would be eligible.

  • GokuAragorn-PGOGokuAragorn-PGO Posts: 26 ✭✭

    @Ochemist-ING yes that is correct but on the website (link via location poi in google maps) it states that the age is up to 18 years old and it is on a public domain with a small patch of grass, few benches and a public square and basketball court (which is an accepted poi ). After 2 minutes of research Niantic Reviewers can see/find all this. So why don't they do it? Or ...

  • GokuAragorn-PGOGokuAragorn-PGO Posts: 26 ✭✭

    I’m awaiting the answer Niantic as to why these 2 nominations are rejected:

     Boomkapel langs wandelroute 2020-12-10 and Clubhuis jeugdbeweging 2020-11-24

    Do they not meet 1 or more criteria @NianticLC @NianticOtoStar @NianticTintino-ING or an Ambassador (like @Gendgi-PGO )? With each nomination you got an accurate title, a clear photo, clarifying information, a photo of accessibility with poi included, an accurate location pin and additional information with a web link to website or web link in google maps.

    And no, resubmit and waiting another 2 years is unacceptable.

    Recognize your mistake(s) and please correct them; everybody makes mistakes ;-)
    
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