UK Postboxes in 2023
PkmnTrainerJ-ING
Posts: 4,832 Ambassador
One thing that people in the UK seem to enjoy [citation needed] discussing is our various postboxes which are marked with royal cyphers, so I wanted to look at a few things.
I am not asking for clarifications or a yes/no, despite posting here, but thought it was probably the right place for it and to try and make some kind of timeline of threads that discuss it, and some details about official views from Historic England & Royal Mail, and allow for some discussion with links and images.
Post Offices are mentioned in the original OPR guide, but not Post Boxes - https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/23082/opr-candidate-action-guide-a-wayfarer-history-lesson
The earliest I can find is when a question was asked during an Ingress AMA, before Wayfarer was Wayfarer and was OPR.
This was revisited by the person who raised the query;
where @NianticCasey-ING noted;
However, the debate about which cyphers are eligible and not still continued.
Historic England & Royal Mail recognises that some post boxes have greater historical significance than others (https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/royal-mail-post-boxes/heritage-agreement-for-royal-mail-post-boxes/) in a joint policy heritage agreement they did;
which we are of coursed asked about during a review.
As mentioned, the debate continued still with many many threads to the point where they even took over the weekend trailmarker joke and even information about how many postboxes there are for each monarch, including Queen Elizabeth II.
(Numbers may be slightly off as based on 2015, and some postboxes would have been replaced)
Taken from the previously mentioned document from Historic England.
It is worth noting to non-UK reviewers that E II R postboxes will, in most cases only have a Scottish Crown logo in Scotland but these are the same as the regular E II R ones across the UK. If you're curious, look up Pillar Box War
Then, of course in September 2022 the monarch at the time, Queen Elizabeth II fell ill and sadly passed away. Unfortunately many used this opportunity to leap at the chance to submit a postbox with her cypher on claiming it was now acceptable as she had passed.
I shared my own view in that thread at the time, and still believe this to be the case.
Also discussed was the first C III R postbox, which has not yet been placed (to my knowledge) but would be of large cultural significance (there will be news stories about it) so I would personally rate that well for that section in a review.
I'll close out this long post of images & threads with this scan about the first Pillar Boxes from Historic England's document. Be nice to each other when discussing, and await the next very UK specific thread!
Comments
Just no with EiiR and Scottish Crown postboxes, yes Queen Elizabeth had passed but 80,000+ generic street furniture would not meet any criteria.
They don’t encourage exercise, they aren’t a place to be social and are not somewhere I’d take a visitor.
Plus, these exist on nearly every Main Street. This is wayfarer, not Postperson Go/Gress/Bloom.
One thing that people from other countries might not realize is that postboxes in the UK are actually fairly special. The document from Historic England states that , "Post boxes make a significant contribution to the character and appearance of the areas in which they are located", and as such they are protected in the same way listed buildings are. The traditional pillar boxes are built of iron, hand finished and made to last. There's a reason why if you go into any shop that sells tourist rubbish they will have keyrings and fridge magnets of postboxes. They are certainly iconic, which sort of makes sense in a country known globally by its reputation for queuing.
They definitely have an iconic status.
They still don't meet any of the three criteria though.
Also...
It looks there were originally about 300 penfold boxes with 250 still on the streets. 150 are original and 100 are the replicas introduced in the 1980's, none of the penfolds in Scotland are original.
To tell if a "Penfold" is original or replica look at the plinth area at the front, if you see the Cochrane name it is original, the replicas have wording on a plate at the base that states it is a replica by Machan Engineering, with the date 1988. The plates on the replicas often fall off, so sometimes it can be difficult to decide if a box is original or replica.
Here is a nice one on the Canongate in Edinburgh.
Nice design, rare, Victorian, aesthetically pleasing....nah **** 1988
m
a
t
e
is a filtered word.. :/
Personally I would only consider VR (3*), E8R (5* never seen one), E7R (3*) and Gold Olympic Boxes (5*). The rest are just rubbish and it amazes me how many get through. A relatively new E2R one has recently made it into the database near where I live. I also don't really see how Post Offices meet criteria either but at least they are mentioned in the official guidelines. My experience is you join a queue get served by a surly jobsworth who doesn't really want to be there then you leave. Hardly a great place to socialise, exercise or explore.
I think it's mostly a transfer from the OPR guide of;
ACCEPT. Connects and unites people around the world.
I have seen some people being very sociable at a Post Office, especially on pension days. Always curse myself if I have forgotten and get stuck in a queue.
Post boxes are not protected in the same way listed buildings are. Only the rarest and oldest postboxes have been given legal protection via listing, because the others are incredibly common.
UK wayfarers have perverted the criteria so that the generic post box of 1930s suburban sprawl has somehow become "featured wayspots".
Yet when Niantic review them, they are rejected.
There is no need to over-complicate things. Just continue how we have been with E II R's being rejected and new Charles box's not considered historic so also being rejected.
Even if the criteria over the postbox changed, Niantic do not have any way to educate all the voters of any changes in criteria, so most voters will continue voting how they have on them in the past.
Any changes would cause a mess and a roll of the dice on each submission as to if it hit enough voters aware of any changes. Then posts about seeing other x postbox in their area but theirs gets rejected etc
Keep it simple...no changes
To my knowledge, James I didn’t have any postboxes. 😆
Just thought I’d add here in case anyone else saw.
That's a rare one. Interesting to see how the letter J looked super similar to the letter E back in the 16th century as well! 🤦♂️
I would have rejected it for not calling it James VI postbox :)
I'm sure I've had a Henry VIII one relatively recently.
100 points to anyone who sees an Aethelstan nomination.
I am seeing a lot of EIIR nominations, and am rejecting them all on the basis that they are not historic or notable (yes, I know there are gold ones or other ones commemerating something or someone like the Capt Tom Moore one local to me, but I don't see any submissions for those). There are still plenty of older ones to be found... a few days ago someone even submitted an E8R one which was quite a find.
In a few areas there is a chronic shortage of waypots though.. one local small settlement I pass through often only has an EIIR post box as a point of interest. And I really have scoured the place to find anything at all.. there isn't even a noticeboard.
Just linking these threads together.
Just me linking any UK postbox threads together. Nothing to see.
Since it's the weekend...
This is a first
It was so hard to find the correct phrasing and meaning that the only thing to do was c&p from wiki.
Haha, I’ve seen someone use the Wikipedia description of a noticeboard before but not a postbox.
I think it was just lack of knowledge and understanding. It was EIIR and they weren't trying to pass it off as a VR etc with a sneaky side shot of the box.
I didn’t remember to save the others but I had a run of Elizabeth II postboxes being labelled as something else.
I've had the same lately - just reject under title/description
I had a E VII and a VR in voting (submitted in December 2022 and September 2022 respectively) rejected overnight - assumedly by Niantic as the email looked different from the usual.
I won't appeal as they were so long in voting that one cell is now occupied by a Little Free Library and the other is in a route I don't walk to anymore, but would be good to get more clarification regarding postboxes.
Many thanks!
Niantic have said they’ll refrain from this in future.
https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/43578/wayfarer-roadmap-ama-june-2023#latest
So you won’t get a further answer from Niantic.
Thanks. So basically we can't know?
In my local community we actually have a bunch of anonymous postboxes that one person tried to submit but they seem to also be rejected my niantic, as if they are auto rejecting postboxes.
We do live in an old neighbouhood - we have proper historical penfold boxes and a route approved linking 4/5 victorian postboxes that has been followed hundreds of times... I guess that's goodbye for now...
The most weird thing was she had a post box approved, it's on IITC, then went back to Niantic Voting and then got rejected but still in IITC...
Thanks again
The onus is placed on the submitter to say why they meet criteria but it sounds like yours may have been rejected by the AI. Are they marked as duplicates on the system?
I believe Niantic are trying to fine tune and tweak it so may be worth submitting once that’s done.
Thanks for answering.
My two I won't resubmit for the reasons mentioned above, but I might tell my friend to try her anonymous one in a month or two when hopefully things will have settled
There is strong evidence (and personal experience) that the AI is being used on new and old nominations and will auto reject any UK postbox no matter the age or context.
It’s been a while since I have submitted a postbox (any eligible ones nearby are already Wayspots) but I have seen plenty of examples now.
Again, don’t mind me. Trying to keep any postbox stuff in one thread so that others can see it if they come across it on a Google search etc.