Rejection Appeal: Kalpaupapa Lighthouse
Bloondie-ING
Posts: 35 ✭✭
Kalaupapa Lighthouse https://intel.ingress.com/intel?pll=21.209539,-156.969691&z=17
This portal is completely inaccessible, and has been for many years. It is located in Kalawao County that is closed to the public by state law. It is against the law to access any part of that county, by boat, by tour, by fly-overs, and by any means whatsoever. Kalawao County is closed to the general public and commercial tours (per authority under HRS 326) in alignment with CDC and Hawaii State Department of Health guidance “Trespassers will be arrested and fined”. The National Park Service-Kalaupapa, HI - Alerts and Conditions - PARK CLOSURE. And it has been this way for YEARS now.
The County is a CLOSED COUNTY per State Law. “https://trackbill.com/bill/hawaii-department-committee-258-rpt-annual-report-to-the-legislature-on-initiatives-and-improvements-in-kalaupapa-settlement-doh/2313572/. Page 8. The county is closed and the path to access the lighthouse is also closed. You can not fly over it due to its proximity to the Restricted airfield, closed to the public and tours, and boats are not allowed anywhere near that county due to it still being a leper colony. WHICH IS CLOSED TO ALL OUTSIDERS, visitors, tours, the public, etc. It is prohibited to come within ¼ mile of the Kalaupapa shoreline. Phones are even non-operational mostly due to intermittent outages with their phone lines. It is an inaccessible portal in a closed county which is a leper colony which is closed.
Please remove this portal immediately. It has been inaccessible for many years now
Comments
Add a link to the National a park Service showing the park is closed to the public https://www.nps.gov/kala/index.htm
And the “Closed” comment is on page 12 of:
https://trackbill.com/bill/hawaii-department-committee-258-rpt-annual-report-to-the-legislature-on-initiatives-and-improvements-in-kalaupapa-settlement-doh/2313572/
If it's completely inaccessible, that should mean it's completely invalid as a portal. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
As much as I would love to see this portal removed, and that's a lot, it is still accessible to NPS personnel. Thus it doesn't meet the criteria for removal.
This is the correct answer. A wayspot does NOT need to be accessible to the general public to be valid. It just has to be accessible to someone.
Should be on a new list to be banned from linking to/from for ingress.
Looking at Wayfarer criteria, there are 3 sets of criteria (eligibility, acceptance, and rejection) and a set of guidelines.
Eligibility: This portal appears to meet eligibility criteria.
Acceptance: appears to NOT meet a safe & publicly accessible by pedestrians location. (Special government issued permit to gain access to the county)
Rejection: appears to be unsafe, and without pedestrian access. Also appears to be a sensitive location (restricted by county health for safety of residents).
Guidelines: sensitive location examples are listed. Access to the county in entirety are restricted for the safety of the remaining original residents of the colony. This appears to be a “sensitive” location.
It appears this location should not be a Wayspot.
Of course it's still has access, only to be accessible for local residents. Every Wayspots don't need to be accessible for everyone 24/7.
Unfortunately residents can not access it either, the National Park that it is contained in is closed.
The fact that every single Ingress player in the entire world would be in violation of federal law if they accessed that portal should be enough reason to remove that portal. Besides, there is no safe pedestrian access to that portal, and you would be arrested and / or fined if you tried. Read NitrousBlue’s comments above. That sums it up perfectly.
@Bloondie-ING Can NPS personnel reach the lighthouse safely?
No. Per the National Park Website, The 3.5 miles trail to the park is extremely strenuous with steep, uneven surfaces. Rockslides and mudslides on the trail are not uncommon.Trail conditions can be wet and muddy in the winter and hot and humid in the summer. Footing can be slippery. Hiking the trail is physically demanding. There are no medical services at Kalaupapa. Additionally, lack of cell phone reception can make calling for help difficult or impossible. I would say not safely. They still have to get permission from the Department of Health, who may not provide it to park personnel, who wish to visit a lighthouse to play a game.
And as NitrousBlue pointed out “Acceptance: appears to NOT meet a safe & publicly accessible by pedestrians location. (Special government issued permit to gain access to the county). It is a closed county by State Law
Trail collapse
On the evening of 25 December 2018, a postal service worker discovered significant damage to the trail from an enormous landslide. According to the Star Advertiser, the landslide took out a bridge on one of the switchbacks, and the trail is indefinitely closed.
@Bloondie-ING What about from the airport? You need permission to be there (which NPS personnel would have), but that is a < 1km hike from the airport I believe. The Kalaupapa Trail is indeed physically demanding and subject to slides but there are other routes to the ligthhouse. I believe that there is also a dirt road that is drivable. The steep section of the Kalaupapa Trail has always been difficult, but NPS personnel have been accessing the lighthouse in spite of that. There used to be a mule ride tour of Kalaupapa but it's temporarily closed.
Requiring permits to access something does not make it an invalid wayspot.
OP you can stop fabricating evidence, you already got dunked on once and this portal has special protection flags due to dubious attempts to remove it like yours
And for the record I support the notion of there should be no restricted access portals but it needs to be applied fairly and not just to the one you consider to be an inconvenience to you.
If Niantic thinks that portals in restricted military bases, especially in counties with strict laws around even taking photos near a base, are valid portals then remote lighthouses most certainly are much more valid.
I will note that if the lighthouse is considered an invalid wayspot then by the same logic all of the ones in Kalaupapa would be invalid... yes?
Yes, there are two others in that county which would also qualify for removal based on the same reasons. The entire county there is closed to the public.
if you assume that if the National Park Service has access, it makes it a valid portal. In this case you are wrong. The Hawaiian Department of Health is in charge of this park. So, still no safe pedestrian access.
@Bloondie-ING The Moloka'i Light Station is still an active navigation aid so someone must have access to it for maintenance. The land that the lighthouse sits on is owned and managed by the National Park Service.
Federally owned land at Kalaupapa NHP includes a lighthouse, 23 acres surrounding it, and 7 associated structures. The remainder of the park land is currently in non-Federal ownership, managed under a lease and a series of cooperative agreements mandated by legislation. The NPS currently has a fifty year lease agreement (with 35 years remaining) for the approximately 1300 acres of the Kalaupapa Settlement owned by the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands (DHHL). The remainder of the land is owned by the State of Hawaii.
The lighthouse has been the target of countless spoofs, as well as numerous attempts to have it removed using false information. Because it's remote and difficult to access physically I am unaware of anyone ever attempting to trespass or otherwise access it illegitimately. I would personally love to see this wayspot removed from the games but it shouldn't be done under false pretenses.
Hosette, no one is lying here. How dare you. Please be a Troll elsewhere. We are here to determine facts, and if you have facts to share, then share them so we can all learn. But this sort of attack is unnecessary and counter productive. And you still can’t get to that lighthouse without going through an area that has no safe pedestrian access. Period.
And the park is closed indefinitely.
Straight from the Hawaiian Department of Health: “Kalaupapa National Historic Park manages the lighthouse and owns the property that it is located on.” The rest of the county belongs to the Department of Health, which has closed the entire county. You can’t access the lighthouse without going through the closed county.
“Because it's remote and difficult to access physically I am unaware of anyone ever attempting to trespass or otherwise access it illegitimately.” That’s because no one CAN access it legitimately.
@Bloondie-ING I shared facts. The land at the Moloka'i Light Station is owned by the National Parks Service. When you say "Kalaupapa National Historic Park manages the lighthouse" you are confirming what I said. Kalaupapa National Historic Park is part of the National Parks Service. I have been in contact with NPS personnel about exactly this topic in the past.
To represent the land as owned/managed by anyone other than NPS is factually inaccurate.
Then Hawaiian Department of Health or Manager of Kalaupapa National Historic Park have to request the removal of all Wayspot in that island by themshelves. Players can't act as intermediaries especially using false arguments.
There. Problem solved.
“Then Hawaiian Department of Health or Manager of Kalaupapa National Historic Park have to request the removal of all Wayspot in that island by themshelves. Players can't act as intermediaries…”. Let me introduce you to Wayfarer…
Again, Hosette, you’re missing the point. What I read was that the Department of Health was managing Kalawao County. You showed additional information to expand on that. You don’t see people supposedly on the same team calling the other a liar when adding information, now do you? Yikes Hosette, again, please take your trolling elsewhere. And the rules require safe pedestrian access. Does this sound like safe pedestrian access?
Wow, you just showed that you can request a permit.