how to improve and why denied: Stone location marker

Hi, I´m confused more than ever before about why this was denied (my dad would say I´m confused as toboggan in summer). You can see a pernamently placed historic location marker with safe pedestrian acess. These markers were either telling the remaining number of kilometers to another city or in geographicly complex localities (with lots of differend roads) they were giving the road a number so any travelers stay on corect path. These markere are also used as orientation points in turist guides (so they do not have to put thre their own signes). The suplemental info in the screen is in english so you can read it:

there are only two in my village remaining and each one looks unique-the other one is much smaller and made of dark grey granite.

Can you please tell me how to improve this nomination or if I should just corect my grammar misteakes and resubmit (that i did not noticed because of my learning disorder when i just don´t see the misteakes)

Comments

  • saarstahl-INGsaarstahl-ING Posts: 183 ✭✭✭

    To me, it looks like a historic milestone. I would accept, but not give more than 3 stars.

  • SeaprincessHNB-PGOSeaprincessHNB-PGO Posts: 1,542 Ambassador

    To my suburban eyes, that doesn't look like it has safe pedestrian access.

  • Wensdyyy-PGOWensdyyy-PGO Posts: 78 ✭✭

    in the suplemental photo you see a sidewalk, the medow behind it is owned by the village and used for place to take dogs for a walk and play. There are 2 roads in this willage-one is "first class road" that conects 2 big cities (that is very much not safe) and this one is "third class road" for locals only with wery low speed limits (I have been home whole day working on my garden right beside this road and saw like 3 cars for the last 10 hours).

    These "third class roads" have such low number of cars on them we play badbington on them (even unatended kids that are around 10 go there alone and play-I would provide pictures confirming it but I do not have their consent to public those photos)

  • SeaprincessHNB-PGOSeaprincessHNB-PGO Posts: 1,542 Ambassador

    I see the sidewalk but that doesn't meet the pedestrian access regs for a wayspot. You must have a clear walking path right up to be able to touch the POI. In this case, you'd have to cross the street from the sidewalk to touch the POI. Now, there are areas where pedestrian access can just be grass along the side of the road. But in that case, I'd expect for there NOT to be a sidewalk on the other side of the road and for there to be a worn walking path in the grass.

  • Wensdyyy-PGOWensdyyy-PGO Posts: 78 ✭✭
    edited May 2023

    well people have no reason to walk to this location marker when they have acess to the whole medow, the extremly low car density also makes standing on the side of the road safe (and this spring with the high amount of the rain owners of the dogs stand on the sied of the road and dogr run on the medow-why would a person voluntarly get their shoes muddy?), you can walk on the side of the road and not on the sidewalk (when walking with the dog on the road folows the rule of having the dog on their lefr side of their body) because pedestrians walk on the left sied of hte road (and when sidewalk is there they can but do not have to use it, there are no rules dictating where they should walk, you can cross and walk across the road where you want and the only law is that you should cross it in the least distance possible=90 degrees angle...there are no rules for jaywalking in 99,9% of the countries)

    Post edited by Wensdyyy-PGO on
  • SeaprincessHNB-PGOSeaprincessHNB-PGO Posts: 1,542 Ambassador

    All of that is logic that is very specific to this one place and this one country. Niantic's guidance on pedestrian access has to be more global. Your local reviewers may judge differently, but since they have already denied it, they also may not. Sometimes it's just better to give up because you'll never be able to convince people to agree with the way you see it.

  • Wensdyyy-PGOWensdyyy-PGO Posts: 78 ✭✭
    edited May 2023

    they denied it for "other reasons" not for safe pedestrian acess (in some parts of the country these stone markers are common in Valachia they are not and this is one of the two in ten kilometer radius)-also denying a nomination is much less clicks than actually evaluating it and I know from a few players they just do not want to waste any more time than nessecery so they deny basicly all of them to speed it up.

    roads with little to no cars on them are safe for pedestrians-this is not a highway but a little road in a village with 1 500 inhabitans

    also this is a forum where people ask others how to improve their nomination and that is exatly what I´m doing here (becasue the fact this game discriminates rural players just does not sit well with me so I´m trying to get at least one pokestop here because without them nobody will even consider playing this game)

  • Elijustrying-INGElijustrying-ING Posts: 5,305 Ambassador

    I would keep trying with this one.

    When writing your text avoid negatives that put doubt in reviewers minds and instead refer to positives.

    Address the issue of access not by referring to the pavement across the road but by describing it positively as being on public open meadow.

    Don’t mention that some of the remaining ones are in peoples gardens as again that raises doubt. Simply state that for example the only other remaining one is the 3 kilometre marker.

    you could state that it was installed around 1930.

    The framing of the photo is good if you could get the number to stand out a little more it might help.

    If you can find any website that talks about these markers, just to show examples of the style, that would help.

  • Leedle95-PGOLeedle95-PGO Posts: 606 ✭✭✭✭

    I think you may have answered your own question. You say “well people have no reason to walk to this location marker when they have acess to the whole medow.” Since it seems you are submitting as a great place to explore, if people have no reason to go explore and see it, then what is the argument that it’s a great place to explore?

  • NorbertG82-PGONorbertG82-PGO Posts: 92 ✭✭✭

    Czech reviewers (and likely reviewers from other neighboring countries) don't have an issue with things on the side of a rural road. That rule for pedestrican access was made for US cities and doesn't make sense anywhere where roads are not exclusive to cars but are regularly used by pedestrians. That rule is long overdue for an update.

  • Wensdyyy-PGOWensdyyy-PGO Posts: 78 ✭✭

    beacuse people have no idea what it is (they tink it is some random stone by the road tat was placed there as a decoration few years ago and not a historical artefact that is about a hundred years old) and they are on a medow wit one goal=let teir dogs play and if tey want to walk to te stone marker they walk to it on the road (because as I said-people mostly stand on the side of the road as to not et dirty in tall grass or get a tick).

    Also it is an ideal place for those wo walk from an old mill from 1776 to the istorical wier that was conected to it by millrace so it is a natural place to stop and take a look whem exploring local historical sites (and all of these can be aproached by thhis local road wit low density of cars so it is ideal for turists).

    for example in this article they say it sould be protected by law because of its historical value (it is not currently) https://www.impuls.cz/regiony/vysocina/kilometrovnik-doprava-silnice-kamen-vysocina-historie-pamatka-jihlava-trebic-havlickuv-brod.A180111_192008_imp-vysocina_kov/tisk

  • Leedle95-PGOLeedle95-PGO Posts: 606 ✭✭✭✭

    But having it as a waypoint won’t help people know what it is, beyond your brief description. When I think of something that meets the “a great place to explore” criterion, I think, would I ever say to someone “Hey, let’s go see/do X” where x is the POI, like let’s go hike that trail, let’s go look at those murals, let’s go check out that restaurant. This isn’t a hard fast rule or even guidance, just one way of looking at it. Would people walking in the meadow say “hey, let’s go look at that stone?” Mile markers such as the one you nominated are not really rare or particularly interesting to most people (I think). They are found along older roadways all over the world. The fact that it is also across the street from a sidewalk really will make it difficult to get reviewers to agree.

  • Wensdyyy-PGOWensdyyy-PGO Posts: 78 ✭✭

    and is exactly the problem that results in people from rural areas beeing discriminated-we have historical sights (stone marker, parks, water mill and old wier from 18th century...but none of these have signs because we are little village that does not ave finances for these things) and for me wen I walk in tese remote areas pokestops are a great way to have anoter source of information on what thhere is (because in tese remote areas terea are no signs so pokestops are a nice help when exploring). This marker could become a meeting spot when going for a walk with dogs-because nowdays we ave to describe it as it does not ave a name and in a place were I lived previously we usted say we will meet by the pokestop (that was also a stone marker but that one was brand new)

  • NeverBeauty-PGONeverBeauty-PGO Posts: 1 ✭✭

    I personally think it ticks almost all the boxes, and think it's unique but yes the not having a plaque would be a reason it's being declined in my opinion as most historical things have things in place to protect them and honour them, I know it seems unfair when your in a small village but one could argue that it seems it's not something thats culturally/ historically significant to your village if they haven't made any effort to put things in place to commemorate this marker, especially when you mention that there aren't many remaining due to being stolen or damaged, it makes it a risk of not being something permanent. Perhaps if it's something you see as special to your village you could organise a community fund-raiser to help to purchase a plaque/ protection for it and try again? I actually personally think this is something really cool and unique because we don't have them in my country!! But if they are something common in areas of your country perhaps that's another reason it's declined even if there is so few in your village!

  • SeaprincessHNB-PGOSeaprincessHNB-PGO Posts: 1,542 Ambassador

    1) You said that "this could become a meeting spot when going for a walk." That's not the purpose of POI. POI are not supposed to "create" meetings spots, but to "point out" meeting spots that already exist. This absolutely does not qualify under the social criteria. That's OK. It doesn't have to meet all of the criteria - just one.

    2) The link you posted is interesting. But in order for this one to be accepted, I think you need a very clear understanding of how old this one is and what it used to mark. I don't know who in your area would know that - some kind of town historian. Maybe you could reach out to any of the people listed in the link you posted. Send them a photo of the marker and where it is located on a map to ask them questions about it. If there's not already a plaque there, your POI description has to serve as the plaque that explains to people what they are looking at.

    I found the information about some of these being used as traffic signs to tell people to stop very interesting. Unfortunately, that's not the kind you have. You have one that seems to just mark some distance. But it is not a "point of interest" unless we know what distance it is marking, IMO. Without that information, I would not accept this.

  • NorbertG82-PGONorbertG82-PGO Posts: 92 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2023

    Plaques, fences and such are placed here in Czechia only around things that are centuries old and significant enough. There are many things dating back just 80-150 years that are interesting and worth exploring, but have no sign. A good photo and a bit more detailed description should be able to sell this. But like with other things, it may need multiple attempts and an appeal is not going to help here due to Nia's unreasonable pedestrian access rules.

  • Wensdyyy-PGOWensdyyy-PGO Posts: 78 ✭✭

    so acording to the cronical the marking of roads was done in 1934 (and never finished), the road was conecting Vsetín and Vizovice (historically there was always a road there conecting chateaous in both cities+the chateau in Liptál) and this road was one of hte last one (the local newspapers from 1994 say that there was so few development because of the presence of Dominican Sisters (they had orphanage and were catolic while most clerks in charge and people were evangelics but I have no way of knowing if this is true or something that was written in local newspapers and religion play no role in it) and the fact only important factory making furniture Thonet – Mundus left in 1931 (or 1930 acording to the official website that does not corespond with the chronicle) making it low priority when it come to makring roads.

    The distance it is mesuring if from the Vsetín chateau (the road nowdays is about 8 kilometers but originaly it was not as straight as it is today). I have my personal photos of the local chronicle (pretty low quality as they limit the amount of time it is exposed to sunlight).

    Even if this is refused again I´m glad I got to do this resreach I can share with my friends (so there is at least one positive thing among all the desperation I feel) and I really apreaciate all thhe help.

  • Wensdyyy-PGOWensdyyy-PGO Posts: 78 ✭✭

    I mean just about a hundret meters from this is a abandon water mill that is owned by the village from 1776...no sign, no plaque and nobody cares (but even if I add link to land reistry people will still deny this as a "private residence or a farm") and many more bulidings with unique arcitecture or story from 18th century but this is just someting we see every day and do not care about wich is kind off sad 😪

  • SeaprincessHNB-PGOSeaprincessHNB-PGO Posts: 1,542 Ambassador

    Try to consolidate all of this into a description for the POI. I agree that I would leave out the religious stuff - might be true but it could also annoy reviewers.

  • Elijustrying-INGElijustrying-ING Posts: 5,305 Ambassador

    You are getting there 👍 great to hear all this info

  • saarstahl-INGsaarstahl-ING Posts: 183 ✭✭✭

    If I set my bonus location to Liptál now, can I change it again after the Wayfarer Spain challenge?

  • Elijustrying-INGElijustrying-ING Posts: 5,305 Ambassador

    Yes.

    there will be an opportunity at both the start and at the end of the challenge.

  • saarstahl-INGsaarstahl-ING Posts: 183 ✭✭✭

    Had my bonus location in Liptál for a week, but got only a few nominations from Poland and Slovakia, and one from Březsko, Czechia.

  • NorbertG82-PGONorbertG82-PGO Posts: 92 ✭✭✭

    I don't have a bonus location set there, but I probably found all from Liptál and approved since they were very well done. The only things I would change is a better photo of the bridge and a more detailed photo of the wooden ornament (which would need an actual camera with an optical zoom, so might not be an option).

  • Wensdyyy-PGOWensdyyy-PGO Posts: 78 ✭✭

    I apreciate you trying, it means a lot to me to know that people actually try to help others (usually games Ii play have extremly toxic communities so seeing people to go trough trouble while trying to help you is something that never happened to me ♥)

    Thank you ♥ I am trying to get a friend with a good camera (she is in scotland photographing a wedding so hopefully she will get back soon-or I will take a large step stool or a ladder even if it would make me look like someone a bit crazy). It is so strange what a pokemon game made me interested in-and next week I´m planing to visit a museum where they just opened and exhibition with rare historical maps so sources for more resreach (and I never tought that I would get excited about something as an old map...the only thing missing is me finding an entrance to a tunnel where acording to a legend (mentioned in two books) bandits hidden a gold tresure while playing pokemon go 😅)

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