Clarifications to take into account when evaluating a Spanish proposal

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for having reviewed the Spanish proposals; we are all noticing how progress is being made on proposals that have been stagnant for too many years. But there are a number of problems that are puzzling many of us and that we do not understand and that I would like to proceed to clarify.


The first problem is that all the "Professional College" proposals are being completely rejected. This does not refer to a children's school, but to a professional association of people who exercise a profession recognized by the state. I do not know how this institution is called in other countries, but in Spain, this institution is necessary for graduates in medicine, law, architecture... to be able to practice. Apart from the fact that it is a place where people who share a profession can socialize and create contacts.

The second problem, also related to the first one, has to do with everything that has to do with "training" because for some unknown reason, we are realizing that all proposals that have something of a formative nature, people interpret it as K-2 and reject it.

These types of proposals refer to vocational training schools, teacher training centers, university centers, colleges, etc... Please, these are valid proposals that meet the eligibility and acceptance criteria. These stops cannot be rejected because the word "school" or "center" appears. They are valid proposals that do not have to do with a children's school, day care centers and so on, so please keep that in mind.

The third problem is the rejection of plaques with the name of a place or associations or the like.

This type of proposals are the way to make them known, the fact of rejecting them without any reason, honestly is something that is starting to bother us and we hope that measures will be taken.

I cannot ask for a municipal building in which it is clear what it is and the area where it is because if you see the plaque indicating what it is, it is automatically a guaranteed rejection. We do not understand why this is so or if it is different in other countries, but we cannot pretend to reject valid proposals, which are correctly requested, when in the country of the reviewer in question it does not work that way. Honestly it's something we can't change, but it's clearly not against niantic's rules.

Finally, the issue of sources. If memory serves, Niantic classified them as "good places to socialize." So, with that being said, how is it possible that since the challenge began, not a single source has been accepted? And we are not talking about the typical ones (which according to niantic standards are valid) but rather those that are striking and unique.


I wish everyone could take these recommendations into account, because it is being a good challenge, but with a rather bittersweet touch for these reasons @NianticTintino-ING.


Thank you very much for all the work and effort dedicated


All the best

«1

Comments

  • Elijustrying-INGElijustrying-ING Posts: 5,274 Ambassador
    edited May 2023

    Some water fountains might qualify if particularly decorative or unusual in some way. Probably because they are “routine” I have seen them with one word secretions and nothing really in the supplementary. So as a reviewer I have nothing presented to me as to why this is special.

    I suspect the translation issues are behind the college/school confusion. Again something more precise perhaps a weblink in the supplementary would help to quickly show it’s not K 12.

    But thanks for raising it

  • Zusie-INGZusie-ING Posts: 130 ✭✭
    edited May 2023

    The descriptions and supporting links, etc. are very lacking for most of these entries. Online translators are very good. There seems to be very good Google maps coverage of Spain. But many of the submitters (and it's pretty obvious who the Pokestop/Portal people are vs. the experienced Wayfarer voters) just make the minimum effort to help people with their 2-3 star level submissions. Those are the submissions where two different people could submit and get opposite results. A poor picture/description/poorly placed pin vs. a better picture/compelling description and supporting information, and correct pin. The second scenario would be the one that could stand a chance to succeed.

    The issue most people are seeing is there is nothing really in the supporting section to help make a decision and that's going to lead to a reject.

    I think people take for granted the work submitters put into prior submissions that actually got into the game (locally, Pokemon gifts, etc.) For these latest entries if there was a clear explanation of the POI and maybe some links about the school program the more serious Wayfarer voters could evaluate the places better. Most of these current submissions have barely 2-3 words, perhaps a sentence.

    Sorry about the drinking water fountains, but those are not a thing. Cool if you got a few in already to enjoy but I think most will fail this time. I think the UK has a similar problem with post office boxes? I think how they handle that is if they were installed prior to the Queen Elizabeth era (earlier Royalty insignia) they get in under historical but otherwise too generic.

    Post edited by Zusie-ING on
  • CopperChick-PGOCopperChick-PGO Posts: 257 ✭✭✭

    I can tell you I have approved only a few Spanish nominations and have likely gotten to about 50 at this point. Your point about municipal buildings, I would have agreed with you a few years ago. I attempted to nominate dedication plaques for a few municipal buildings when I first started submitting and they all got rejected, despite great descriptions. I tried to submit both of them twice, so 4 rejections. As for the "fountains" I have seen two type. One is very tall and someone said something about it being related to an aqueduct. In the US we don't have aqueducts so I really don't know what to make of those. Are they rare or common? Are they 200 years old or 10? The one I got didn't paint a picture for me. One problem I am having is my Spanish translator is geared more towards Mexico than Spain so the English portion is really choppy. But if I'm really confused about something I am giving it 3 stars and not 1. I am also getting a lot of duplicates. It must have been someone thinking since the nomination was stuck it may get through if submitted again.

  • PaulingZubat-PGOPaulingZubat-PGO Posts: 578 ✭✭✭✭

    I came across one nomination that said no words needed for an icon of the Santiago Camino trail. Was familiar with the yellow and blue variant but it was a small shell that looked like a survey marker. I think it should be clarified in the supporting text, a lot of reviewers may not be familiar.

    I have other stuff commented on the showcase thread, cool stuff but varying ease of review due to supporting content provided.

    OP have the same position as me wrt municipal halls, the PH were an ES colony for at least 300 yrs after all. Culturally, municipal spaces are landmarks for socializing (our old towns have Spanish influences, the municipio and Catholic Church as central to city planning and within the plaza) whereas other countries see them as transactional buildings and not inherently eligible. I say halls specifically.

    Problem I saw reviewing is that the municipal buildings look like houses apart from having a small plaza/play area in rural Spain. I don't see rejections as correct all the time. It may come down to how familiar a reviewer is, what the submitter has written, and if reviewers read. The forum and resources help but not most actively look at those.

  • Zireka-INGZireka-ING Posts: 30 ✭✭

    I'm sorry for my English. You are correct and I mean those fountains. Fountains that have something that makes them visually unique, whether they are drawings, murals, or just another color (purple for 8M). The problem is that since the "base" is the same type of fountain, I think they are rejected for that reason, but it shouldn't be like that, since what they have makes them uniquely eligible

  • Zireka-INGZireka-ING Posts: 30 ✭✭

    We would just like to know what we can do to improve our proposals since putting a good description in which the history of the proposal appears, dates and so on does not seem attractive enough either...

    On the other hand, we have also seen very beautiful murals in which we have put who the author is (since it deserves an income) and what the work represents and despite having up to 360º, it does not seem to be enough either.

  • Zireka-INGZireka-ING Posts: 30 ✭✭

    Thank you very much, we will look at that aspect, since at least, as it is a university, the pages come in other languages and this can be beneficial at this time.

  • Zireka-INGZireka-ING Posts: 30 ✭✭

    Regarding your question about the aqueducts, if they are made of stone, they are from Roman times and therefore, they are all proposals of great historical and cultural character (https://www.abc.es/viajar/top/abci-20 -most-impressive-roman-aqueducts-spain-201905072327_news.html)

    https://www.fundacionaquae.org/ciudad-vieja-y-acueducto-de-segovia/

    On the other hand, for the moderns (which to be honest, there are few, because the Romans are still used) I would give a good description of when they date, but the truth is that Roman engineering is still used in towns of the peninsula.

  • Ossorno-INGOssorno-ING Posts: 40 ✭✭✭

    My pleasure, just ask if you need help with something.

    Of course, I’m talking just about rejecting plain, simple, common, drinking fountains, if there’s something different or special I review the nomination with care. But, I also have to say, yesterday I achieved 5 new upgrades (so I went through at least 500 nominations, surely more) and none of the drinking fountains I saw were special or different. I really wish I get to see one of the special ones.

  • 29andCounting-PGO29andCounting-PGO Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I told Spain to be careful what they wished for.

  • Jeroenix-INGJeroenix-ING Posts: 400 ✭✭✭✭

    Hi @Zireka-ING

    Some comments on .. your comments :) Keep them coming, by the way, because during these events it's of great value to get to know some of the lesser known details about a country. I encourage all Spanish people to make similar posts to explain. Here are some thoughts:

    1&2:

    I wouldn't know why a training facility for professions would qualify.. yes, they're important for graduates in law, architecture, etc.. but how does this fit criteria? I'm not accepting random training centers either just because they have students in them who socialize; that's not the prime function of that place. Maybe I'd accept a college, if it's famous enough. You say "These 'stops' cannot be rejected because the word "school" or "center" appears.", but I think simply because they're training centers doesn't mean they're something special. I wouldn't reject them based on K12 but on "Other".

    3: You mention plaques: "This type of proposals are the way to make them known, the fact of rejecting them without any reason, honestly is something that is starting to bother us and we hope that measures will be taken."

    Not every plaque is eligible just because it's a plaque. It all depends on what the plaque says and if there's something special about that place. For example, if it's a plaque saying "Center Square" then you, as a nominator, should do your best to explain what is special about that square. Otherwise, it's just a random square in a town someplace. I agree they are often made to draw attention to something special, be sure to tell reviewers that.

    4: Municipal buildings: A city hall is something I mostly accept; they're usually old, they're the focus of a town, often well built and a place to socialize or get information about a town. However, a police administration building (also considered municipal) doesn't hold as much of that value at all, unless it's historic or something. It all depends, it's not an auto-accept just because it's a useful place.

    5: Fountains could be quite eligible, I agree. A faucet coming out of the ground: not so much. But many fountains (especially in countries around the Mediterranean) are often quite old, and are visually notable even if newly built. I can understand that, should there be a hundred of them in a town and all built by the same factory, they lose their shine, but that is almost never the case. I'd accept the pretty ones.

    As I said, keep the details, quirks and unknowns about Spain coming, the information on the school naming system in Spain is helpful.

  • Zireka-INGZireka-ING Posts: 30 ✭✭
    1. y 2. When I talk about professional associations, I mean the following: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colegio_profesional

    Seems like something worth reviewing.

    3.I attach 2 examples that I will explain so that I can be understood.

    The first plate refers to the name of a historic building (historical not because of how beautiful it is, but because of the history that is inside it) since within its walls it houses the history of how the waters of the Duero river have been managed. (one of the main rivers in the country) for the last 150 years.

    This without going any further, I think it already makes it more eligible.

    Although the plate does not seem to be visible, if the photo is enlarged you can distinguish it perfectly. I chose this plate, because it is over 40 years old, instead of the current one, which, although it does say that it is a government building, does not have the old touch that this one has.

    The second plate, referes to

     The second plaque shows the name of the building behind it and that it is a public body (which, briefly explained) is in charge of training both social service professionals, so that they know how to recognize risk situations for minors, both for other professionals in the country's public sector. https://crefesvirtual.es/mod/page/view.php?id=1028

    4.Regarding the municipal buildings, I have just fallen into the following question.

    Ignoring the quality a bit (which is made with the old mobile) in this case this is an administrative building and central park of the city firefighters. On the one hand, it does not obstruct emergency services, because the garages are on the other side. On the other hand, if it would have to be valid since being the central park of the oldest fire department in the country, argued in this way and with the following link, could it not be valid? https://www.valladolid.es/es/actualidad/valladolid-7b/acto-institucional-homenajea-bomberos-valladolid-motivo-qui

    On the other hand, proposing other quite unknown and old public service buildings as a stop should be acceptable, even though in this case, the building looks like a house (since the building is at least 50 years old). Like the following example:

    For the rest I agree.

  • Zireka-INGZireka-ING Posts: 30 ✭✭

    Apart from what has been said before, I would also like to know your opinion about these photos, since they have all been rejected, and I do not understand what I am doing wrong

    According to the reason for the rejection, it is because of the photo, but I cannot understand why it is not valid. If you could explain it to me, I would greatly appreciate it.

    Thank you so much

  • Ossorno-INGOssorno-ING Posts: 40 ✭✭✭

    The second picture, by being an association, where some people gather, might take it into consideration. I don´t really like it, but that's just me.

    The third picture (with the floodgate) would be approved, should you be able to provide any specific information of why that one in particular is special, different, or have something that makes it stand out from all of the other floodgates at the Canal of Castile. And of course, not using that picture that is taken and cropped from the blog of Joaquín (Tales of a Wanderer).

    The rest of the pictures, I honestly don't know under which of the criteria would fit to be approved, maybe you could elaborate a little more so we can understand it.

  • Jeroenix-INGJeroenix-ING Posts: 400 ✭✭✭✭

    Some of the photos could be zoomed in a bit more to the sign, especially the first one. It shows too much city. But I wouldn't reject them for it, in fact, all of them are not 'low quality' in my opinion.

    There is one thing: it is a nasty misconception that photos must be portrait. Your photos are landscape, and there are quite some reviewers who reject it ("orientation") because you held your phone sideways. This is an incorrect rejection in my opinion, but I would still advise you to take portrait photos, just in case.

    Except for the library and possibly the grate/lock wheel mechanism (if it's very old or something), I don't see the eligibility in those nominations. A sign for a baby clothes store (is that correct?) isn't that good of a nomination. Neither is a patients association sign. No idea what the other ones are, but I think they might also be company logos. .

  • Ossorno-INGOssorno-ING Posts: 40 ✭✭✭
  • Jeroenix-INGJeroenix-ING Posts: 400 ✭✭✭✭

    Thank you @Ossorno-ING !

    (rest assured, if I was reviewing this I would have certainly run it through a translator:).

  • jabrevno-INGjabrevno-ING Posts: 22 ✭✭

    I would rather think portrait is the bad way of taking pictures and would advice to go landscape by default and portrait when stuff doesn't fit. Neither is cause for rejection as that's not what orientation means.

  • MargariteDVille-INGMargariteDVille-ING Posts: 2,728 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm going to answer n in generalities. Of course every case is potentially unique and has caveats.

    A "public body... in charge of training both social service professionals" does not meet any criteria: explore, socialize, exercise. You could nominate the university's theater or sports arena, because people go there for exploration or exercise. But that doesn't mean every brick on the campus is a valid Wayspot.

    The criteria are also not met because something is an administration building. "It's a place where people show up for work" does not meet any qualification. Doesn't matter if it's administration of firefighters, insurance agents, or anything else. If the administration building is unique architecture, or has some history - submit that. Explain why this building is unique among buildings.

    The shop signs you shared don't look like unique art. Selling stuff... doesn't meet criteria. Explain what's cool about it -- besides trying to make money from all who enter. "It exists" does not mean it should be a Wayspot.

    I think you also mentioned city limits type signs. Do people meet at the sign to socialize? Does it have a beautiful unique painting, carving, or architecture? Is there a tradition to get out of your car and run around the sign? I suspect none of these things are true, and therefore the city sign meets no criteria.

  • PaulingZubat-PGOPaulingZubat-PGO Posts: 578 ✭✭✭✭

    I've reviewed and rejected some business signs submitted as graffiti or plaque when it is just the logo of the business. If you're trying to submit a logo, sell it as the business. I don't see how a photocopying business would meet eligibility though.

    Regarding municipal buildings, not all of them would meet eligibility. Old does not automatically mean historical or worth actively socializing in or exploring to unless you have business there. You have to make an argument that the building is not only for utility or transaction in those cases. The fact that you've mention the small office is unknown does not seem it is of cultural importance as well.

  • 29andCounting-PGO29andCounting-PGO Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just so you know, places of higher education or even training facilities falls under the explore category.

  • FusionWarrior-PGOFusionWarrior-PGO Posts: 2 ✭✭

    I don't know how others do it, but my generosity certainly increases when the number of other wayspots around decreases, as long as the nomination doesn't explicitly break rules.

  • vop020506-INGvop020506-ING Posts: 20 ✭✭✭

    Can someone explain me why are you rejecting this nomination? It's a "frontón", It's even included in the guide the Spanish community posted here, but has been rejected 2 times.


  • ChristinaRS2610-PGOChristinaRS2610-PGO Posts: 104 ✭✭✭

    I only see a wall, a little hole up at the right but if there is something there it should be closer. And im not sure what a Frontón is, but after a Google search, i think it should be more decorative to be eligable.

  • jabrevno-INGjabrevno-ING Posts: 22 ✭✭
    edited May 2023

    It looks like a Fronton court, but it could be/look like a wall of no note. You can post location and ref picture so we can see better, but if it is indeed a court - resubmit, as is or maybe with a more encompassing picture.

  • Blania6967-PGOBlania6967-PGO Posts: 145 ✭✭✭

    The majority of the reviewers don't come on the forum and didn' read the guide.

    Reviewers outside of Spain (and maybe the south of France) don't know what it is and only see a wall

  • vop020506-INGvop020506-ING Posts: 20 ✭✭✭

    Hi again. First of all, there are some other rejection criteria that I get:

    Also I attach the supporting information(translated to english, pediment is the translation of fronton):

    I know that maybe the supporting photo is not the best, but I thought it was an easy accept to spanish reviewers and they don't need it at all.

    As I know there are reviewers who don't read the forum, I put in the additional information about the fronton.


    That's what I thought with the first rejection, but it has been rejected again, and I can't make a better picture because now i'm far away from that village.

  • Zireka-INGZireka-ING Posts: 30 ✭✭

    But even if that sign or logo is for a business, wouldn't it be valid as a unique local business?

    And the same would happen with the gym proposal, only that, apart from being a unique local business, it can also be used to socialize.

    But in general the question is: If a local business has only one store/office/headquarters and it has an attractive and striking logo, would it not be eligible as a stop?

    What's more, I don't know if someone will have it on hand, but I think I remember that NIA said something about this topic (I trust that someone has it on hand and clears up our doubts) and that this explanation that NIA gave serves as a justification when appealing proposals of this style.

Sign In or Register to comment.