Abusing the current broken wayfarer situation in Belgium - Destelbergen Street Lights
EddyMerckx-PGO
Posts: 29 ✭✭
Right, so a couple of days ago it came to my attention that a certain someone has been massively abusing the current broken wayfarer system in Belgium/The Netherlands.
This person was clever enough to boast about his nonsensical submissions in DMs to other players and on Discord servers.
The following discussion is focused on two area's. The first one is an entire street in which he nominated the street lights but named them "trailmarkers". The second one is a number of fake stops on private property and/or the middle of the road.
*First area* Hoogstraat Destelbergen ( 51.067199, 3.840373 )
Notice all those waypoints in a seemingly straight lane. If you look on Google maps you will find nothing but single houses. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0665233,3.8388971,3a,75y,216.05h,89.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sskfToztlsxA6r3GN6BXR7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu If we take a closer look at the wayspots we find that nearly 98% of those in that particular street are serial numbers of Street Lights.
If we look even closer, the so-called trailmarkers are exactly placed to trigger a maximum amount of POI's in Pokémon Go.
*Second Area* Draaiboomstraat - Lochristi
This area has a lot of portals on private property or portals that are borderline.
First example:
The portal is literally in someone's garden. You can clearly see it on streetview whilst the homeowner is working in it. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0679127,3.8401544,3a,21.4y,105.97h,87.66t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sQDcKuifYP7Qtf4DmDv77rw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!9m2!1b1!2i24?entry=ttu
Second example: Numerous cycling trailmarkers which are found all over Flanders.
Now, it is very rare for those particular trailmarkers to be plotted down in the middle of the street. The Flemish governing body rarely puts these on different places but crossroads.
Oh and ofcourse, the street wouldn't be complete without some "street light" trailmarkers.
And to top it all off: How about a fake (okay, I can't prove it) Maria Chapel plotted in the middle of someone's garden.
If we click to see it in Google maps: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0679959,3.8401108,3a,75y,73.7h,86.43t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sAZR5TJBc5m_UPYitT-jP2A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!9m2!1b1!2i47?entry=ttu
The Portal is supposedly located at the end of a private driveway.
This was where I would originally end but I ended up finding this:
A so-called black mosaic tile.
In reality it's an air vent on the facade of a private property (picture and link to google maps added as proof)
Comments
The person responsible (for the street lights at least) did create the below thread, but has since edited all their comments and asked for the thread to be closed:
Thank you for flagging this. I have sent this to our team for review. Thanks,
This shows that the only proper action to fix the situation with abusers all around is to act on it. He has seen other people have been banned and that's why he requested to remove the wayspots that he created, but that would mean that there's no penalty for breaking the rules: if you get caught then the wayspots are removed and everything goes on, so everybody would keep on trying to find ways to abuse the system.
By banning the abuser the message is clear: don't do that or face the consequences. Go on Niantic!
Any update on this @NianticAaron?
More of the same (fake or low-quality) POI's have appeared.
You also forgot to mention the red and white hydro signs i get these sometimes from Destelbergen but also on other regions then i go look to duplicate and seea bunch of those it's really annoying because i give them 1* and i feel they go through anyway
It is getting out of hand rather quickly. Every town I visit has a handful up to a several dozen of these fake trailmarkers (street light IDs or hydrant signs). I discovered the above area last week before finding this discussion and have also send it to through the abuse form. So far I got a response saying it's being looked into. Hope this gets resolved fast but the damage is spreading quickly...
The hydrant signs should also be looked into. These signs point at nearby underground hydrants. Most of them are within 2-3 meter away from the sign. These hydrants are used by a few services. One of them are firefighters (emergency service). I don't think it's safe to have players gather around these signs (lures or raids in PoGO) as this has a chance to obstruct emergency services.
Unlike street light ID signs these hydrant signs are less common. But still common enough to be found roughly every 100 to 200 meter you walk in a town. Around my house there are 3 in a 65 meter radius.
Decided to review a bit whilst watching some cycling on the telly.
Sorry for the delay. We are little overwhelmed at the moment. Having said that, we have removed over 160 Wayspots from this location that did not meet our criteria. We have also taken appropriate actions against the Explorers involved in this. Thanks for helping us maintain the quality of Niantic Wayspots.
Amazing news, altough I must admit that I didn't expect you to ban such a great number of players. @NianticAaron
Don't get me wrong, the person nominating the street-lanterns and fake mosaic-tiles was hit. He was crying about the loss of his account and although it is indeed justified I do feel a little guilty knowing that I'm responsible for him no longer being able to play Pokémon Go.
I guess I somehow thought they would only be hit with a wayfarer-ban.
Now, I'm a member of the local Discords where players gather to coordinate raids and much more. A few of them, who I know are real sticklers for the rules have also been hit with permanent bans and 90-day bans. Could it have been that they were flagged aswell?
Lots of stuff such as informational signs in the nearby parks aren't visible on satellite or street-view but are legit portals. Is it possible to rectify this?
Sincerely,
A person who's feeling rather guilty at this point in time.
If the person you're talking about was the one confessing in this forum earlier, well..., at least he learned his mistake. However you can't negotiate with Niantic about the sanction.
Nor the actual abusers would care anyway since they can still create new accounts.
I'm allright with him actually. But like I said, reviewers and submitters that were real sticklers for the rules seem to have had a ban aswell.
We hand out punishments after a thorough review. They must have done something that violated our policies that resulted in suspension. And a 90 day or permanent suspension would mean that the offense is repetitive.
I've just spoken to one player and he has never received a warning beforehand. Could he get a more thorough reason as to why he immediately got hit with a 90-day suspension (over e-mail)
Furthermore when he logged in it says that he got a permanent ban which seems like a bit of an overreaction for a first time offense.
The magnitude of punishment depends on the magnitude of violation. I checked again and can confirm that we have taken action in accordance with policies.
I don't doubt that. But, for example this is an e-mail one person received.
Like I said, first warning for him. And when he logged in to PoGo, the following message appears:
Surely, something is going wrong, right? Whatever happened to Niantic's 3-strikes-policy?
The following is also from a player in said region and when he logged in the same blue screen as posted here above appears:
Look, I know the region and the players well. Those guys did nothing (or very few things) wrong and their nominations were not the ones I was targeting. I can only assume that a number of their nominations were deleted or flagged aswell by Niantic-employees. Perhaps they didn't show up on streetview or Google Maps, but surely they shouldn't be hit with an immediate severe strike because a fellow player from their region abused so much? In both cases a 90-day suspension/permanent ban is completely uncalled for without prior-warning.
As mentioned in previous posts aswell. The reason for the great number of "****/coal"-nominations getting accepted in Belgium/The Netherlands are dubious, some speculating on bots as mentioned in this wayfarer discussion: https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/43350/strange-accepted-poi-in-the-netherlands#latest If players are unaware of these events they might just think the things they are nominating are acceptable. And unlike the player who actually admitted to submitting rubbish in the post linked above they were probably oblivious to said facts.
I'm begging you to overturn your decision on suspending their accounts. I honestly don't want to be the reason for those guys to lose access to their accounts. I actually believe one would have been attending Go Fest in London. So he probably has paid for a ticket and accomodation aswell.
If you could give them a second chance I (and them aswell) would be very grateful to you.
Whatever happened to Niantic's 3-strikes-policy?
The 3 strikes policy was never a right of the players and Niantic reserved the right to ban or suspend accounts as they deemed appropriate, regardless of whether the account had any standing strikes.
I can confirm that this is a 90 day suspension and not a permanent one this time.
While I understand your position, these actions are non-negotiable. We reviewed the entire area for abuse and took actions in accordance with our policies. As explained in the recent AMA, we now administer consequences for abusive behavior that apply not only to using Wayfarer, but across ALL Niantic games and products.
And in order to be fair, we cannot make exceptions. I hope you understand. Thanks,
For what it's worth, whilst the 3 strike policy does exist, if you read the policy
( https://niantic.helpshift.com/hc/en/6-pokemon-go/faq/39-three-strike-discipline-policy/ ), it does say this:
Keep in mind that offenders are not always offered three strikes. Some misbehaviors may result in immediate account termination without prior warning.
This suggests that Niantic have deemed these offences as bad enough to skip an initial first strike. Remember that they can see things that we don't necessarily have access to ourselves.
I will also point out that in the case of the person submitting the street lights, they may have posted apologising for it, but they then deleted their post before many people actually saw it. To me, that doesn't exactly seem like a sincere apology, given that they effectively revoked it straight away by removing it. It would've been better if they'd left it up. That's just my opinion though.
In that case, what will be done on your part to prevent this from happening again? For a couple of months Niantic lost complete control of the Wayfarer-situation in Belgium/The Netherlands. You rely on the goodwill of people like me to point out the most abuse-ridden areas and when that happens you just ban anyone who nominated anything you guys find doesn't meet the criteria in the area?
You realise how this looks right? Because you ARE making execptions. All over both countries things like these were submitted but are you going to comb over every nomination from these past few months? I don't think so.
I pointed out how one player nominated the serial numbers on streetlights as trailmarkers, and how he also placed fake POI's around what I assumed was his work- or home-location.
Now I assume that in the same village some people saw those things getting accepted and they started copying him. But that is not their mistake. It's yours (!). You who let the situation in the low countries get out of hand in the first place whilst you had been notified a long time ago by reviewers or PoGo-players like myself that the wayfarer-process could be manipulated. It happened before in Germany and somehow it spread to Belgium/The Netherlands
The main abuser got his punishment, and rightly so, but the others... You're blaming them for Niantic's icompetence...
It's been getting quieter around here so I assume he either moved or temporarily disabled the bot-accounts reviewing (because let's be real, what else could've caused this).
I still think what you did is wrong, and that honestly having gotten no prior warning an exception should be made. Because otherwise you should start banning half of both countries.
Duplicate from previous message, deleted it
People submitting coal to ride the acceptance train are just as guilty as the main abusers. The wayfarer website states that spamming ineligible nominations is abuse, and at the very basic level, this is what this is. These punishments are very thoroughly investigated and warrant beyond slaps on the hand.
But do they warrant a full on suspension?
After all, who is to blame but Niantic for the acceptance train?
“After all, who is to blame for the bank robbery but the bank itself?”
What a bad take. Niantic needs to get better at responding to abuse like this, including responding faster, but the blame lies on the people who acted in bad faith to abuse and exploit the system.
Depending on the severity of their actions, yes, we have several different levels of punishment. And we aren't seeing the full picture ourselves. I trust that appropriate action is being taken. As for who is to blame?... Anybody abusing the system is to blame, that's the point of rules and consequences. There's just as many people complaining not enough action is being taken, then we have the abusers complaining too much action is being taken. Niantic never wins.
Stupid take from you aswell. If the bank puts their money out on the table, are we to blame the people for taking it with them?
Yes. I learned when I was four years old not to take things that don't belong to me.
The thing is.. is niantic just going to keep chasing the bot accounts that are surely an almost infinite supply? They wil just keep making new accounts and banning them won’t have much point. Also some people who don’t know the wayfarer criteria thinking a nomination is eligible cause they seen a similar one in the games are getting permanently banned now as well, a bit rough, they should be educated and warned yes. But giving them a permanent ban for not knowing the criteria and they just nominate similar nominations they see in game is a bit rough in my opponent.
The abuse is bad and I shared all the information internally with Niantic, but permanently banning someone who doesn’t know acceptance criteria and just nominated something they saw getting accepted multiple times in their area seems a bit rough. I think niantic should focus more on educating those players and making sure the bots can’t review those nominations in instead.
Duplicate previous post
duplicate previous post
I guess that you learned because somebody quickly told you that you shouldn't do that.
Imagine what would have happened if you saw that people take anything that they want and that goes on for weeks, months and the police stays right there looking and saying nothing. And one day you are hungry and take one apple and suddendly you end up in jail because the government finally decided that enough is enough and laws must be respected.
I'm quite sure that if Niantic would have acted sooner then these collateral victims wouldn't have happened.
My suggestion for anyone around the affected zones: spread the word, wait until everything is fixed and meanwhile don't nominate or review anything as you might be confused by the actions of the abusers. Stay away from Wayfarer.