Fire Hydrant (Artful or Not) Eligibility
TablogEimrats-PGO
Posts: 89 ✭✭✭
Hi, all:
What is the current and/or new ruling on fire hydrant, artful or not, eligibility? If I could get an official response from someone at Niantic-Wayfarer, that would be preferred.
Thank you!
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While waiting for Niantic, I would ask this: which of the eligibility criteria does a fire hydrant, painted or not, fulfill? I’ve always wondered. It’s definitely not a great place to exercise or socialize, and even if painted really nicely, would anyone really ever say, “ hey, let’s go see the fire hydrant!” Maybe they are painted to be more aesthetically pleasing, but I don’t buy that they are ever worth exploring.
I know that’s not what you really mean, but my point is, why is it even a question.
Hi @Leedle95-PGO,
Great question. Please see our rejection criteria for clarification on this question.
Therefore, fire hydrants, regardless of their artistic aesthetic should be rejected.
Any old stretch of road seems just as likely to interfere with emergency service operations as a given hydrant.
Should we also reject a church sign if there’s a fire hydrant next to it?
What if the hydrant is several miles from the nearest fire station? It would not interfere with the operations of the station.
It's weird to me that artistic hydrants would be ineligible on this premise. Usually, hydrants see extremely infrequent use. If one needs to be used, it is because there is a fire on that street - and if so, being anywhere on the street would interfere with firefighting operations, including at the location of any playgrounds/basket courts/murals/trail markers/other generally eligible candidates that might be there.
Hey @NianticTintino-ING, given that Fire Hydrants block emergency services could you kindly check out this post regarding several Fire Hydrants that are present in my community, two of them I reported and the report was denied.
Thanks!
https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/44528/fire-hydrant-report-rejected#latest
Hi @NianticTintino-ING
Can you please help me understand how to apply this rule? For example, if having a Wayspot at a fire hydrant will block emergency services, then wouldn’t all of the following murals block emergency services also?
Given that the interaction radius in games is 40-80 metres, how far away from a fire hydrant does a Wayspot need to be before it no longer obstructs it?
I am concerned that this statement seems to have the potential for far reaching effects.
Yes, theres many art walks/tours focused on fire hydrant art, for example
https://www.visitvisalia.com/art-on-fire-tour
https://rentondowntown.com/hydrants/ is another one
Hi Explorers,
Great questions. So I see the topic of objects around the fire hydrants being brought up. I want to clarify that it's the fire hydrant that should be rejected. Not everything else around it. The fire hydrant is the tool within the operations of the fire station. All other things placed around there are property of other organizations which will deal with obstruction on their own. Objects around the hydrant may still be eligible but please use your best judgement, keeping the communities safety in mind, when rating to accept or reject them.
So if I was told by my local department that the hydrant was *the safest place to stand* when a fire was happening (more detailed post with picture pending approval), I'm not supposed to take that into account? @Tintino001-PGO
So pretty much the same as Cassey's "clarification" that many still refuse to accept.
Unlike fire hydrants, distribution boxes aren't part of the emergency service infrastructure.
I think the difference is if you're standing outside by the fire hydrant you're expecting the fire trucks to show up, and will get out of their way. The problem comes if someone stops their car by the "gym" that's the fire hydrant and now they're in the way of the fire truck.
I've personally witnessed people in cars oblivious to fire trucks on multiple occasions.
In one of these scenarios the fire department is telling you is ok, the other is a potential barrier to the proper use of the fire hydrant.
Thank you so much for a clear answer. We are in desperate need of clarifications.
it's already illegal to park in front of fire hydrants, as well as at many other places that are great places for waypoints. Car access shouldn't be factored in, or there are a lot of trailmarkers, playgrounds, indoor poi, etc that need removal if that's your sole criteria.
Parking in front of a trail marker isn't going to impede firefighters from saving the lives of people stuck in a burning building. Like it or not, vehicles need to be factored into these decisions.
But take cars out, if 20 people are surrounding a fire hydrant doing a raid it won't make for easy access to the hydrant.
in the case of my fire, it actually would've - there was a trailmarker right where the fire trucks parked on the occasion I was told to stand at the hydrant. And yes it's a waypoint. A crowd gathering there would've done a much bigger job of obstructing emergency services than one at the hydrant, which is why we were told to stand where we were. And there were more than 20 residents in the crowd that was told by the fire department to stand at the hydrant.
You are missing the point. A trail marker isn't part of the emergency service infrastructure, a fire hydrant is. Also, a group of pedestrians isn't the reason why fire stations, police stations, and emergency rooms are off-limits. The pedestrians can be shooed out of the way. It is the vehicles that the group brings with them and can't be easily moved that cause the problems.
20+ waiting for the fire department at a fire does not equal 20+ people staring at their phones tapping their screens trying to win a raid. The people standing by the hydrant because the fire department told them to, are far more likely to be paying attention to the directions of the fire department when they go over to gain access to the hydrant.
People waiting because of a fire are expecting the fire trucks, and are only a liability to themselves and their own property. Thus they are invested in ensuring the fire department has the access they need. The people doing the raid are unlikely to have any involvement with the potential fire that requires the hydrant and potentially could be so oblivious to the fire department that they get in their way.
Secondly, blocking fire departments from parking is illegal and has absolutely nothing to do with the wayspot. By that logic, nothing with an interaction radius that touches a road should be eligible, and I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. The likelihood that the fire department would require access to the space directly around a fire hydrant is much higher than any other spot. Situations like that are why the games tell you to be aware of your surroundings.
Fire hydrants are a tool used specifically to fight fires, and thus should not be considered points of interest.
You are completely missing my point, but I need to get back to work and don't feel like beating a dead horse any further.
Cause when cities do it right, they're pretty cool and people absolutely explore to find them all.
In a city I used to live in, there were close to 80 art hydrants painted via a collab between a civic group, the public works dept, and the fire department. The city has an app with various tours of the downtown area, some focusing on certain types of businesses or art or history and it uses your GPS to pop up info about each stop when you get close. One of those tours is all the art hydrants and I saw lots of people very clearly walking around just to find them, stopping to check out the art, taking photos, all that.
This decision is pretty ridiculous to me considering all the potential places you're far more likely to interfere with EMS that are just fine. I would regularly see EMS responses at a number of places around town, each had wayspots in close proximity. Should reviewers have been stricter about that? I never saw a hydrant in use other than a single time they were doing training and as I walked past with my kid the fire fighters invited us to come over and watch.
The program is pretty cool, you submit a design. The city approves it and delivers a hydrant to your house and you have as long as you want to paint it. When you're done you give them a call and they pick it up and install it.
This to me feels like a situation where there should not be a one-size fits all rule. There will be cases where art is created without permission and locations where the local fire department is opposed to this but there are plenty of times when everyone is on board and the community can enjoy wonderful art in many ways.
this is really cool of the city to do! seems like an excellent case for when local knowledge and context should be considered. I thought we'd moved away from black and white thinking with the criteria refresh to account for cultural differences and nuance like this.
Aren't fire hydrants in the US also used by the community on hot summer days as a way to cool off? I'm not sure about everywhere, but in New York you can ask the government for a special cap designed to make a fun spray for kids to play in and cool off. There's a bit about the history here: https://99percentinvisible.org/article/refreshingly-clever-fire-hydrant-spray-caps-help-citizens-cool-down-safely/
that said, I wouldnt submit/accept a plain hydrant in New York just because they CAN also be used for play, bc I don't think they would meet criteria as a great place to explore, exercise, or be social. but I don't think they obstruct emergency services any more than any other waypoint which might catch on fire (and thus need emergency services to access it). It's not like a hospital emergency room which is used at all hours every day, where players absolutely should not gather. Most hydrants are rarely if ever used.
This answer is stupid.
Thank you for answering my question, @NianticTintino-ING
Does not matter what we think is right or wrong.
We can all find exceptions and reasons that counter most views or Niantics processes.
Niantic has said no. And frankly I cannot ever see them changing their views on this for obvious reasons.
That said reviewing is subjective. Which means you will find people will argue why it should not be so. Sometimes just to argue as well :-)
Logical or not. Examples or not. Niantic says no. Community of reviewers will decide. And that means some will be accepted and some will not. But Niantic says no. So if you reject or yours get rejected there is a valid reason for it according to the guidelines we are given.
It is really rather simple. :-)
I understand your point of view, but why is it that most requests to remove fire hydrant wayspots are denied? This is not because of language; it seems to me that you and the staff have different views.
This is also true for the reviewers, and it is up to the judges to decide how they perceive the phrase "interference with emergency services", and fire hydrants are effectively a gray area. If you want to change this situation, you should specify fire hydrants in the rejection criteria.
Hi Tintino,
A couple years ago, I was unfortunate enough to be living in an apartment where a car in the building's parking garage caught fire, and the fire department was called to assist. In this screenshot from the intel map, I have used a fire emoji to demote the building where the fire occurred, fire trucks to indicate where the trucks actually parked, and a fire extinguisher to indicate the location of the nearest hydrant. At that time, we - the building occupants - were told to stand on the side of the road that was across from both the burning building AND the trucks' parking area, which meant that we were instructed to stand near the in-use hydrant. The portal (pink circle) pictured in this screenshot is a trailmarker, and has been in every locally-released game to-date (it's a Pokestop, was a HPWU fortress, and is currently a Pikmin large bloom) - I personally feel like on this specific occasion it would've been a much bigger obstruction than the hydrant itself was, based on where the trucks parked and where the fire department folks told me to stand. Based on this experience, I feel like either there needs to be a radius of proximity to allow for this - anywhere trucks are likely to park while using the hydrant - or we accept that there should be a "local judgement" factor and take individual hydrants on a case-by-case basis. A city willing to do something like this https://rentondowntown.com/hydrants/, for instance, is likely in favor of people gathering around the hydrants. What say you?
Niantic wants to avoid this.
Yes but wayspots have to have pedestrian access. We are not supposed to take parking and/or cars into consideration when voting. A pedestrian can walk away from the hydrant if they are somehow blocking it.
Because it is safest for Niantic to have guidelines that say don't when it comes to emergency services/facilities..... I call it hedging your bets. And I get it.
There are exceptions to most things. We can all come up with something. But really this is a blanket rule that is fairly un ambiguous and pretty obvious. But as ever with a blanket rule it will catch things up where we will go "what".....
- I think some of the fire hydrant art is awesome though :-)