Request for restoration of multiple falsely removed trail markers
RestariaOudeGr8-PGO
Posts: 57 ✭✭
Title of the Wayspot: Trailmarker Wandelroute Roerstraat
Location: 51.482284 / 5.428806
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of the officially sanctioned walking route network of the province of Noord-Brabant as can be seen here: https://www.visitbrabant.com/nl/routes/wandelen/plan-je-eigen-wandelroute. You can clearly see from the banner at the top of the page that these green squares with yellow triangles are used to point out the direction of the trails.
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Title of the Wayspot: Trailmarker Wandelroute Roerstraat
Location: 51.481772,5 / 5.427212
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of the officially sanctioned walking route network of the province of Noord-Brabant as can be seen here: https://www.visitbrabant.com/nl/routes/wandelen/plan-je-eigen-wandelroute. You can clearly see from the banner at the top of the page that these green squares with yellow triangles are used to point out the direction of the trails.
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Title of the Wayspot: Trailmarker Wandelroute Waalstraat
Location: 51.478305 / 5.425957
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of the officially sanctioned walking route network of the province of Noord-Brabant as can be seen here: https://www.visitbrabant.com/nl/routes/wandelen/plan-je-eigen-wandelroute. You can clearly see from the banner at the top of the page that these green squares with yellow triangles are used to point out the direction of the trails.
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Title of the Wayspot: Trailmarker Wandelroute Roerstraat
Location: 51.481503 / 5.426722
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of the officially sanctioned walking route network of the province of Noord-Brabant as can be seen here: https://www.visitbrabant.com/nl/routes/wandelen/plan-je-eigen-wandelroute. You can clearly see from the banner at the top of the page that these green squares with yellow triangles are used to point out the direction of the trails.
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Title of the Wayspot: Trailmarker Wandelroute IJsselstraat
Location: 51.479938 / 5.426678
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of the officially sanctioned walking route network of the province of Noord-Brabant as can be seen here: https://www.visitbrabant.com/nl/routes/wandelen/plan-je-eigen-wandelroute. You can clearly see from the banner at the top of the page that these green squares with yellow triangles are used to point out the direction of the trails.
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Title of the Wayspot: VVN Verkeersexamenroute Fransebaan
Location: 51.481643 / 5.441076
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of an officially sanctioned traffic safety exam trail as established by the Dutch Traffic Safety Administration (https://examen.vvn.nl/vvn-praktisch-verkeersexamen).
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Title of the Wayspot: VVN Verkeersexamenroute Veluwelaan
Location: 51.477187 / 5.463365
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of an officially sanctioned traffic safety exam trail as established by the Dutch Traffic Safety Administration (https://examen.vvn.nl/vvn-praktisch-verkeersexamen).
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Title of the Wayspot: VVN Verkeersexamenroute Roelantlaan
Location: 51.474902 / 5.460576
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of an officially sanctioned traffic safety exam trail as established by the Dutch Traffic Safety Administration (https://examen.vvn.nl/vvn-praktisch-verkeersexamen).
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Title of the Wayspot: VVN Verkeersexamenroute Sterrenlaan
Location: 51.467645 / 5.491197
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of an officially sanctioned traffic safety exam trail as established by the Dutch Traffic Safety Administration (https://examen.vvn.nl/vvn-praktisch-verkeersexamen).
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Title of the Wayspot: VVN Verkeersexamenroute Huizingalaan
Location: 51.478565 / 5.456851
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of an officially sanctioned traffic safety exam trail as established by the Dutch Traffic Safety Administration (https://examen.vvn.nl/vvn-praktisch-verkeersexamen).
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Title of the Wayspot: VVN Verkeersexamenroute Damocleslaan
Location: 51.466097 / 5.496934
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of an officially sanctioned traffic safety exam trail as established by the Dutch Traffic Safety Administration (https://examen.vvn.nl/vvn-praktisch-verkeersexamen).
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Title of the Wayspot: VVN Verkeersexamenroute Argonautenlaan
Location: 51.466700 / 5.497208
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of an officially sanctioned traffic safety exam trail as established by the Dutch Traffic Safety Administration (https://examen.vvn.nl/vvn-praktisch-verkeersexamen).
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Title of the Wayspot: VVN Verkeersexamenroute Argonautenlaan
Location: 51.465883 / 5.497025
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of an officially sanctioned traffic safety exam trail as established by the Dutch Traffic Safety Administration (https://examen.vvn.nl/vvn-praktisch-verkeersexamen).
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Title of the Wayspot: Trailmarker Rondje Eindhoven
Location: 51.457327 / 5.487393
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of an official network of cycling routes set up by the VVV (the official Dutch tourism promotion organization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vereniging_voor_Vreemdelingenverkeer) in the city of Eindhoven. (https://indebuurt.nl/eindhoven/genieten-van/mysteries/mysterie-wat-voor-route-in-eindhoven-is-rondje-eindhoven~259214/)
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Title of the Wayspot: Trailmarker Rondje Eindhoven
Location: 51.469380 / 5.447318
City: Eindhoven
Country: Netherlands
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information: This trail marker is part of an official network of cycling routes set up by the VVV (the official Dutch tourism promotion organization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vereniging_voor_Vreemdelingenverkeer) in the city of Eindhoven. (https://indebuurt.nl/eindhoven/genieten-van/mysteries/mysterie-wat-voor-route-in-eindhoven-is-rondje-eindhoven~259214/)
Comments
They are just stickers and street signs. Here in our area, some players are also trying to get something like that in Ingress. I think such "markers" have no added value in the game.
I'm sure you'll find something better.
Trail markers are trail markers.
It is also bulk. Poi needs to be Unique.
Any individual trail marker does not have to be of unique manufacture - it is the combination of trail marker and unique location that makes it a unique POI.
sticker/paint/handmade marker: They are all eligible. Are they the best poi's? No. But they do are eligible and acceptable. See the quote below:
For your query on a sticker/paint/handmade marker, I think you're referring to this kind of marker: https://us.v-cdn.net/6032079/uploads/YIZASAJVWYGP/yellow-hiking-trail-marker-pointing-260nw-2093526883.jpg Trail routes also take the pedestrian path of an open space/field.
Our stance: If it is legit, these are acceptable. If it is manipulated by placing fake markers then it violates our policy which may lead to appropriate actions against the submitter.
(Source: https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/155876/#Comment_155876)
They even clarified it further. The sticker is a trail marker on a trail, and are eligible. See the quote below:
a) A marker with the trail name on the trail <- Excellent (Correct)
b) A marker with the trail name on a street <- Good (Correct)
c) A marker with no trail name on the trail <- Good (Correct)
d) A marker with no trail name on an open green space area <- Good enough (Correct)
e) A marker with no trail name on the street <- Not Good (Correct)
(Source: https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/155876/#Comment_155876)
This doesn't mean that each trailmarker on a trail needs to be uniquely designed and cannot be bulk. They should be distinguisable, for instance by distance. See https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/175598/#Comment_175598
Nonetheless, the above items, if they do exists at their specific locations, should be eligible.
Sorry, doubt :)
When I started the game, the POIs were still set by NIA itself. Then the first submissions came from players who had been in the game for a while.
Today, every little traffic sign really comes into play, every yellow arrow that points to a hiking trail, every marker for a cycle path should come online. The quality is really suffering.
I'm really sorry, but I have a completely different opinion. A waymarking that represents something special, something carved, something unique. Then I am completely on your side. But these are really just normal road signs and stickers.
What is unique about that? And it doesn't help to quote things from the manual :)
Find something unique and you have the perfect POI.
And yes, those are BULK @vke123-ING
". A waymarking that represents something special, something carved, something unique. Then I am completely on your side. But these are really just normal road signs and stickers. What is unique about that? And it doesn't help to quote things from the manual :)"
That's not the criteria that Niantic tells the player when they nominate a waypoint. "A great place for exploration, A great place for exercise, A great place to be social with others" are the criteria. And they explicitly mention trail markers as an example of an eligible nomination, and as referenced earlier, Niantic considers stickers as being eligible.
So you can have a perfectly different opinion about those things, but don't be surprised, reading above, that people nominate and approve such waymarkers :)
But surely these players accept these POIs. I can see it in our area. More and more are trying to get traffic signs, street signs, road markings and other nonsense into the game. Of course, always nicely divided into the cells :)
But I also see that the acceptance of them is becoming less and less. More and more of them are being deleted, which I personally think is right.
Apparently the Pokemon scene in Eindhoven needs these POIs. But let's be honest: The same sign every few metres as a POI? The same green sticker every few metres again and again?
It's great that the cycle paths and hiking trails are so well marked. But you don't need them 10,000 times or more in the game. Eindhoven has such great places and objects, so I think it's a real shame that it's only about the amount of POIs and not about the real discovery.
That's something that's really starting to get lost in the game. And that's exactly why I started playing back then. To see and discover things that I wouldn't normally see.
A sculpture in a side street, an interesting roof gable, a great graffiti in a subway or a house wall. Things like that are great, just as an example.
But if you need these POIs so badly, then go ahead ;)
Good luck in restoring this..... things
Street signs, road marking, traffic signs have never been eligible and I haven't found an indication within an AMA or a reference that these should be nominated. More than fair that these are removed, especially if the only reason they we're added is the botnetwork in the Netherlands.
Regarding the trail markers, I think you're exaggerating a bit. A trail marker that is distinguishable, for instance by instance, should be eligible. Pokemon Go works with S2 cells, so there will be a distance between the different spots, and I'm sure there would be sufficient other waypoint that would qualify.
But this is something different than that all trail markers, and not limited to stickers, but also the fixed signs, like in the post of the topicstarter, should be removed as a matter of course.
Ah yes, because every mass-produced set of soccer field goals and mass-produced piece of playground equipment is sooooooo incredibly unique. All of these trail markers are unique. While they may look identical or at least very similar, they are all in different locations. And it is the location that makes them unique. No two trail markers are in the exact same location.
Actually they're removed because of review abuse happened in the Netherlands. Many other Wayspots that weren't created since the beginning of the abuse, such as mosaic tiles and trail markers in several cities got removed as well.
If you're asking, they likely won't able to be restored by Niantic.
Removing fake stops that are created by abuse is fine. But all of these trail markers aren't. All of them exist in the exact locations I've placed them at. None of them are fake. So why should they be removed then? Niantic has stated multiple times that they explicitly want trail markers to be approved. So even if there wasn't rampant bot abuse going on, these should all have been approved if the reviewers were doing their damn job properly.
And I'd have to check the dates on my original submissions but I'm pretty sure most of these were approved well before this bot abuse mess ever even got out of hand.
You say I've placed them...
Did you put the trail markers on the poles?
"I've placed them" as in: they all exist at the exact locations I marked them on the map during the submission process. They were placed by the VisitBrabant Route Bureau. In the link below, they literally have a dedicated section where you can file a report if you see a damaged or missing marker and they will fix it. They've obviously placed those markers on the poles and they will place them on those poles again if they're ever physically removed and someone reports it to them.
https://www.visitbrabant.com/nl/routes/meldpunt
Most of these are correctly removed / shouldn't be accepted.
Reasons vary from:
However those are still removed as the result of 'collateral damage' by this abuse. Mosaic tiles in Zoetermeer were already victims of this too, if you ask.
Go troll somewhere else, buddy. Poor quality photo? Don't make me laugh. And no pedestrian access? They are all literally ON the goddamn sidewalk or right next to a bike lane or sidewalk. This is some low-quality bait.
Please no cursing here. These wayspots are low quality, there's nothing special about them. These are signs for the traffic exam for children, not trial markers.
Aaaaaaaand today another dozen or so of these trail markers got removed. Most of which date back to years before this whole bot abuse situation. Sure love seeing all this effort I put in throughout the years go to waste like this. And for some reason, it's only the trail markers I submitted that are being removed. There are countless other ones that were submitted by other people and not a single one of those has been removed. Very interesting.
Do you mean by putting so much effort in the submission, to discribe carefully why on earth the community had to approve such a wayspot, follow this and this rule because you have to, instead of submitting a high quality wayspot?
Oh hey, I wonder where this mysterious arrow sign leads. Let's follow it and see where it takes me. Boom. Great for exploration. You're walking or riding a bike while doing it. Boom. Great for exercise. You can invite your playing friends along while you do it. Boom. Great for socializing. That's all three right there. You Ingress folk need to get this obsession with "quality" out of your heads. It matches the criteria. Niantic has stated countless times that trail markers are encouraged. But no, because it's not a church or a statue, the Ingress players don't consider it to be "quality" enough to be in the game.
Ingress and pokemon go will likely always have these conflicts because of the different nature of the games. I get it. But the basics of nomination criteria is essential to follow. Irregardless of opinion these points seem legit. I have had every submission I've made rejected initially. Those were top quality submissions. This is really getting discouraging.
There's no ING vs PGO this time. In this case of NL review abuse, it's Niantic vs bot reviewers vs "honest" and "innocent" submitters.
@NianticAaron @NianticTintino-ING @NianticLC @NianticOren @NianticOtoStar @NianticRN
Can I get some official opinion on this? Last time I checked, trail markers were highly encouraged submissions. So why are dozens upon dozens of trail markers I submitted being deleted? And why only the ones I submitted? Other markers of these same trails that were submitted by other people haven't been touched at all.
If mu patkbench is not eligble as marker. Then why duch an idiot sticker.
If iI follow the criteria
-visually unique
-nice place te meet or gather
-etc
These stupud yellow in green arrows are furthermore so small. These shouldn't be accepted.
These are just traffic signs of which millions exist
First of all, your typing skills need serious work.
Secondly, go brush up on the criteria.
Thirdly, Niantic heavily encourages trail markers.
I've made some references earlier on regarding the eligibility on the different trailmarkers at https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/227181/#Comment_227181
The references include numerous (visual) examples that Niantic gave.
I think it's not probably something you want to hear, but let it go. I'm sure Niantic have read this post and decided to not respond. If you for instance look at https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/45865/mass-removal-of-trail-markers-and-exercise-locations-zoetermeer-netherlands , they'll also posted a statement (quite contrasting to earlier statements of theirs) and didn't respond further.
There was a botnetwork in the Netherlands, they've cleaned it up, banned / warned some users, with perhaps quite some collateral damage.
And if they react in this topic, it will probably in the line of "We have taken another look but stand by our decision to retire the Wayspot in question.", so it won't give you any additional insights.
So what you're basically telling me is I have to resubmit each and every single one of these (plus the dozen or so others that were removed since I made this post) and risk my account getting terminated because Niantic are so wishywashy about what's acceptable and what isn't?
The fact that there are still dozens of these trail markers around that weren't submitted by me leads me to believe they're eligible.
No, what I'm thinking is that it won't help you any further waiting for a response, you probably won't get. If they wanted to restore a poi, they would have done it already, or in the other topic, or clarified it why they removed it.
If you want to resubmit, you could, but I guess niantic is very picky at the moment around the area. Trail markers are eligible, most of them are acceptable as well, although a number of reviewers have a different view than the earlier explanations by Niantic.