Removal of wayspot on military property
Serathas-ING
Posts: 7 ✭✭
Title of the Wayspot: Zackenbogen
Location: 48.129206,9.064959
City: Stetten a.k.M.
Country: Germany
Rejection Email:
Photos:
Explanation:
Got another Wayspot in a restricted military area. Everything north of the "Albkaserne" marker is military barracks and unaccessible to civilians.
Tagged:
Comments
Thanks for the appeal, @Serathas-ING. We took another look at the Wayspot in question and decided that it does not meet our criteria for removal at this time.
W.t.f.? This Wayspot is in a restricted area, impossible to reach, if you're not a soldier stationed here.
How does this meet your criteria of pedestrian access?
If you need more proof of this, just name it
A way spot doesn’t have to be accessible to everyone or the general public broadly. It just needs to be accessible to some group of people. in this case that group is soldiers. As long as the way spot doesn’t meet any of the in eligibility criteria, Niantic won’t remove it.
That's the American point of view. A rural road without sidewalk is dangerous, a location inside a military zone full of **** people is OK even if satellite map is forbidden there
See? They know that a.r.m.e.d is bad and they don't allow it here but it's OK as a Wayspot.
I do have a problem with this rule myself, and I think it's more an issue in Ingress than other Niantic games. These places have effectively zero public access, and are guarded by people with guns which I think makes it pretty unsafe for pedestrians, especially if it tempts people into creeping around the outer fences at night to blow up a portal (yes, I have done that).
It's not a problem in PoGo, because it doesn't impact on others and a lot of these military bases have family housing. But in Ingress it gives and unfair advantage, worse still with Machina it can be an unsolvable headache if you are trying to clear an area.
It would be great if the wayspots could be marked as "location sensitive" just in Ingress, but I doubt that would happen...
If that option does happen, I assume it will be used the same way portal anchors are targeted for removal currently.
Access restriction is unfair the same way having a car, having to work in remote places, and such can be considered an "unfair" advantage.
Knowing full well the nature of the site and still attempting to go at ungodly hours is a lapse of judgement of the player too. It isn't the pathway leading to the wayspot that makes it unsafe but the consequence/threat of being caught as a trespasser. Provided consented access, that consequence should not be a problem.
I can share the frustration with Machina, too virulent.
just saying
I should have written it better because I didn't even bother to look at the nomination.
Currently Niantic doesn't remove any nomination in military zones even if that location has zero tolerance for personal phones, the whole facility is blurred in the satellite view and there's only military personnel (no families) there. Anyone can search the forums to confirm that.
Tldr don't bother reporting military wayspots, Niantic doesn't care about the laws in your country. None will be removed.
Maybe it depends on where you are as to what you can see, but the whole base is crystal clear at the most detailed level on Google maps. I could zoom in even further, but then it was impossible to tell what the building was.
Yeah no, it's an uninformed view with people stereotyping military communities based on what they see and hear in popular media. Because people in the USA have the same view as you and are 100% wrong.
I will state it again, as you all know my stance and who I am, I only know how the USA operates and what their bases are, but the general ruling makes sense. Who are you (not you in particular @WheelTrekker-ING, but the folks who report these), some random person who has no involvement or association with an area or the military to deem "iTs UnSafE".
If it is an actual problem, the land owners, operators, military, government, whoever will report the location themselves using the provided form. https://niantic.helpshift.com/hc/en/5-report-an-issue-with-a-pokestop-gym/faq/1008-request-modification-or-removal-of-a-pokestop-or-gym/
I think they were being sarcastic.
It also cracks me up how many people do not know what the word pedestrian means.
It just means A person walking. It doesn't mean "open to the general public." Can a human being physically walk or stand there? If *any* human can safely stand or walk there, then it has pedestrian access. That human may be someone with restricted access.
@SeaprincessHNB-PGO part of it is also caused by incorrect translations by Niantic in the different languages.
In english, they mention as rejection criteria: "private residential property"
In Dutch, for instance, they call it: "privé-eigendom", which translates to "private property"
In German, the same: "Privatgrundstück ", which translates to "private property"
I'm sure this will be the case in more languages as well. So the residential part is missing. And "private property" vs "not open to public" is an understandable relation people make.
So they're incorrect for that part of the translation, which explains the confusion for "open to public"
The problem is not the USA. The problem is that you don't understand how the rest of the world works.
Again. IDK if you know how it works, or anyone, because the same exact rhetoric happens in the US because people have 0 clue what military bases are/do beyond pop culture media.
But my statement still stands,
If it is an actual problem, the land owners, operators, military, government, whoever will report the location themselves using the provided form. https://niantic.helpshift.com/hc/en/5-report-an-issue-with-a-pokestop-gym/faq/1008-request-modification-or-removal-of-a-pokestop-or-gym/
Bothering you because you can't access a portal/gym/flower is not a removal reason, nor a rejection reason.
Yes, I know that whole families live inside military bases in the USA
Do you know that in most other countries no such thing happens, that outside the USA many military zones are blurred out due to security (meaning that providing outsiders any info about what's inside is not allowed) and despite that people have requested wayspots inside such places?
Do you really expect the government of each country to waste the time requesting Niantic to remove one by one the wayspots inside such zones that they have already marked to Google and other maps operators?
I see that 2 people have disagreed with my statement that Niantic currently isn't removing any wayspot inside military zones, I would love to see any post where a wayspot has been removed due to being in a military zone and prove me wrong.
@SeaprincessHNB-PGO another thing connected to the pedestrian access statement is the wording from the acceptance criterion: "publicly accessible". It seems to also generate an incorrect view about the access part of things, I'd love for Niantic to define some words mentioned in the criteria.
@WheelTrekker-ING I doubt the legitimate removals inside military bases reach the appeals section. If the location is indeed out-of-the-radar, people would be invested to keep it that way and erase traces in an online forum just as why they would need to remove the wayspot in the first place.
Well, this one blew up o.O
Just as a sidenote, which I find quite funny: Niantic quickly reinforced, that this one is fine, but the other one I reported at the same time, which is an actual **** range and therefore should on no account be eligible, was completely ignored:
https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/47953/removal-of-****-range-wayspot-on-military-property