UK Postbox appeal rejected....
P1dg3ySlayer-PGO
Posts: 164 ✭✭✭
Title of the Wayspot: GR5 Postbox - Bilton Road
Location: [Lat/Long]: 51.54115,-0.324419
City: [City] London
Country: [Country] United Kingdom
Screenshot of the Rejection Email: [Attach Screenshot]
Photos to support your claim: [Attach photo]
Additional information: [If you have more explanations, add them here]
GR5 isn't a regular postbox, it has historical and cultural significance. Historical England shows that there are 115,000 postboxes that exist in the UK (https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/royal-mail-post-boxes/heritage-agreement-for-royal-mail-post-boxes/). Whilst George V postboxes make up 15% of what has been installed, it still represents a significantly small number of postboxes that are installed (17,250 if my maths is correct). Whilst I may understand the argument that they are common, they are not as widespread compared to Queen Elizabeth Postboxes which accounts for 60% of postboxes (69,000).
I know there were discussions surrounding the acceptance of GR5 postboxes a while ago, but if there is an updated guidelines that specifically says that GR5 postboxes are no longer accepted, I am willing to accept it and not submit these any more.
Comments
Tagging @PkmnTrainerJ-ING and @Elijustrying-ING about this
Thanks. Forgot to say I had passed this along.
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Thanks for this.
I'm glad you got the tag. Things went a little bit wrong when I initially made the post, hence the edit stamp 😅
I am having the exact same experience. I wrote very similar information to the above when I nominated the postbox in my village. If postboxes are now banned as Pokestops then I am going to report every postbox Pokestop I see as an invalid Pokestop.
Tagging @PkmnTrainerJ-ING and @Elijustrying-ING since you were mentioned above. I would be very interested to hear whether I should start reporting all postbox Pokestops - there are loads in my area. I don't see why all the other villages should have GR postbox Pokestops when mine is not allowed.
That's not how it works, and you should not be reporting existing ones.
Currently the AI has an issue with postboxes, and the appeal reviewers may not be educated enough to know about the nuances of UK postboxes. The ambassadors you've tagged are working behind the scenes trying to get this resolved.
That being said, even if the criteria had changed (Niantic have repeatedly said it hasn't) and they became no longer acceptable, they do not meet any of the removal criteria, as the removal criteria is a specific set of criteria of its own.
There are plenty of things that were approved under older criteria that, were they submitted under current criteria, they wouldn't be eligible, but despite not being eligible under the current review criteria, they are able to remain as they don't meet the removal criteria.
I can understand your frustrations though as I am a postbox fan and I can appreciate that in a small village, it would be one of the few eligible things to submit.
You can try to entirely avoid mentioning the word postbox (either as a full word or two separate words). Some people have had success making the nomination about the cypher rather than the postbox itself, and others have found that "wall box" seems to avoid getting filtered by the AI.
Maybe try calling it "<Street Name> George V Box" and see what happens. It's the only real way to find out what does and does not get past the filter, and sadly I'm all out of postboxes to submit in my own area so I can't help figure it out haha.
I am having the exact same experience. I wrote very similar information to the above when I nominated this postbox in my village. If postboxes are now banned as Pokestops then I am going to report every postbox Pokestop I see as an invalid Pokestop.
Nobody said postboxes were banned as Wayspots, please take a breath.
Postboxes have always been an odd one though as illustrated at the start of this thread.
You also have to remember that Niantic is an American company and their Appeal reviewers will often be looking at things with an American bias, even though they are looking at Wayspots all over the globe. Personally I would not Appeal a postbox due to this, I would resubmit it if I thought it met criteria.
I cannot see the rest of the nomination but can’t imagine there’s issues with it. When you re-nominate, I would note the importance of these with this one having been around since between 1936-1952 (if you contact the post office or your local council they may be able to provide a date when it was placed) and that it is still used for sending mail to connect and be social via letters (or such similar wording).
Don’t give up on the postbox. Would love to hear how your re-nomination goes.
As mentioned, we are working behind the scenes to try and note the importance and historical significance (though this is no longer a question on Wayfarer) of these to the UK.
As @PkmnTrainerJ-ING has said, they are not banned. There is a question of eligibility of new UK based postbox pokestops submissions that need to be clarified. The AI review system is a fairly new system, and the appeal system appears to be based on a policy that contradicts previous understanding of what was considered as acceptable based on historical significance criteria. If the Wayfarer team are now saying that UK postboxes (in terms of new submissions) are no longer accepted, they need to provide that as a clarification note.
I just wanted to add something to my original post. My initial submission was rejected by Wayfarer's AI Bot. Resubbing the nomination would probably get the same treatment. So whilst I would love to resub, I am not going to go out of my way to do so knowing there is a high chance of probability that it will get rejected automatically.
Probably too soon to ask, but is there any response from Niantic regarding this? Are GR5 postboxes now no longer eligible?
Nothing further has been said yet. I would encourage you to keep submitting things that meet criteria in the meantime.
So, things like GR5 postboxes, right? 🤔
There lies the problem. With Niantic auto-rejecting things that were previously ok, I am now second guessing what is or isn't eligible.
No AI system is ever going to be perfect and this one seems like it is in early days and needs a lot of tweaks.
A place I have worked at previously used one for scanning messages and someone wanted to sign off a 60% success rate. We managed to get to 90% agreed and that was as far as we could push it, so I wonder about this AI system.
Didn't intentionally claim the AI system was perfect, but like with a lot of AI systems, it requires some form of human input in order to tune out the false positives. It will take me a long time before I can trust any AI platform.
Something I don't understand is why a large percentage of the reviews I do on Niantic wayfarer are for postboxes - and they use the word postbox. How are theirs getting through to a human and mine goes to the AI?
The others could have been submitted prior to the AI being in action. So no AI influence.
Although the AI seems to take out most of the recent submissions it is not all the submissions. I don’t think we have found the perfect way past it.
Is there any way to integrate some form geographic (base on long/lang co-ords) that could be applied to certain rules?