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I'm still trying to understand how a logo of a generic restaurant chain could be considered 'gray' rather than an obvious reject. Generic gym, yes I can see that could be 'gray', but a chain restaurant logo?
Niantic has issues with signs. They tend to accept a sign for anything if it looks pretty enough, ignoring what the sign represents entirely. However, if a truly eligible thing is submitted that does NOT have a sign, they use the lack of sign as a reason for rejection.
I’m already in that club.
This was prior to being an Ambo. And I have yet to get any further than what’s in that thread.
I waited over the weekend as recommended without posting on this thread. I did not get a retraction email, as expected. The original nastygram was received at 12:51AM my time, so I was expecting it to be in my inbox this Monday morning. It was not. Aaron's reply that I had "rejected this submission which should have been approved," came at 11:40AM, so I hoped I would get it by lunchtime. I did not. It is now 4:50PM EST and still no word from Niantic. I am still on strike for reviewing until this is settled.
more and more reports of ai rejecting logos. ironic? or more proof that i reviewed correctly?
based on my normal rate of reviewing, today marks 700 reviews i haven't done.
@NianticTintino-ING any update on that "follow-up email redacting/clarifying" AisforAndis mentioned?
Idk but their A.I. seems to reject business logos too:
@NianticTintino-ING @NianticAaron you owe @cyndiepooh-ING an apology if your A.I. did better job than your team.
Sigh. Another day dawns with no "follow-up email redacting/clarifying" - just as I expected. 800 reviews I would have done but haven't. And ai rejecting logos like the one I was reprimanded for accepting has me even more furious. I give up.
I'm probably not the only one who reads this thread and be like, welp I'm not going to do anymore reviews. I would have rejected that logo every day of the week as well. Good luck.
If Tintino cared, he could have stopped one minute during the meeting with the ambassadors to write here: Dear Cyndiepooh, I'm sorry for this email, I'm gonna work to improve this issue and prevent that it happens to anyone else.
One minute during a meeting where they surely spent far more time talking about this because NO ONE from Niantic has written anything at all in this thread.
And despite all of that, people is willing to keep reviewing under this sword hanging over your head.
I suppose if Niantic actually prefers to invite the unknowledgable unwashed masses to submit coal for their AI to review, then theirs is a clever course of action. They won't need skillful Wayfarers. All they need is a quick turn-around time and an AI that doesn't mind shoveling coal....
We're lucky that Ambassadors take their roles so much more seriously than Niantic take their jobs. Why is it that unpaid Ambassadors have to make these posts cleaning up Niantic's mess?
They sent threatening emails saying that if @cyndiepooh-ING and others continued reviewing incorrectly (despite the fact that they clearly made the appropriate call on the given nomination(s), mind you) they'd face consequences. It's nice that they're walking that back, but it's gotten to the point where it's debatable whether or not the staff member you're meeting with even uses the review system at all.
As others have noted, Niantic have been largely MIA the past several weeks and have all-but completely ignored major issues such as this. It does not feel unreasonable to expect them to do this portion of their jobs.
I just heard from someone else who recently got one of these "educational emails". She also asked for an example of her bad reviewing. It was for rejecting a Game Stop store.
Form their Wikipedia page:
"GameStop Corp. is an American video game, consumer electronics, and gaming merchandise retailer. The company is headquartered in Grapevine, Texas (a suburb of Dallas), and is the largest video game retailer worldwide. As of 28 January 2023, the company operates 4,413 stores including 2,949 in the United States, 216 in Canada, 419 in Australia and 829 in Europe under the GameStop, EB Games, EB Games Australia, Micromania-Zing, ThinkGeek and Zing Pop Culture brands. The company was founded in Dallas in 1984 as Babbage's, and took on its current name in 1999...."
"Bad reviewer" tells me the nomination had nothing it in that would have distinguished this from any other of their 4000+ locations.
Another day without that retraction email. Another day not reviewing. 900 reviews I haven't done since the nastygram. I won't bump this again.
I'm sure the Wayfarer team has many different tasks and duties. Some are certainly deemed to be higher priorities than others. Also,t oday was also a holiday in the US.
Perhaps there were more ugrent issues that needed to be fixed first (eg. Facebook login issues), however drafting and sending a "retraction email" to wayfarers who received the last batch of "educational emails" doesn't seem to be a technically difficult or time consuming task. That no one has been able to do this in the last week and a half sends a signal.
I will say that I did get direct advice and a response back from the post that I had a week ago (mainly because it had a ton of expletives). In all honesty I was mortified that the post actually came through in one piece, with all its swearing and insults intact. But the devil's advocate in me has learned that there is very little chance that Niantic will respond to certain clarifications if you ask them nicely (because the community or its ambassadors just do that for you), so you actually have to kick up a stínk to get any sort of response from them.
Same thing when I had to appeal my ban in Ingress several years ago when they said that their decision was final and they had absolutely no reason or evidence to uphold the ban.
I do feel for those who got the nastygrams though. I really hope you get the response that you're looking for too (not just any response). For that GameStop educational email though that's pretty bad, I reckon I'll get the incorrectly reviewing email because I've rejected many EB Games (Australian equivalent, kinda) in my reviewing efforts.
Ambos were in talks with Niantic before that **** post of yours and working to getting a clarification for you... and we ignored your shitpost when it was posted sometime between our talks as to get to the bottom of this without any bias... but regardless of that Niantic noticed the post and apparently decided to comment on that as well in your response.
So no, you didn't get a response because of that post of yours and it was pretty unnecessary.
It would indeed be much appreciated if the subjects of unfair warnings didn't jeopardize our efforts to get the record corrected by publicly embarrassing themselves with offensive posts in the meantime.
So censorship then? Got it.
This reads like an offensive post to me. It sounds a lot like "dumb members please hush up and let the experts do their thing that they can't freely discuss".
Nope, it's a response to "Niantic replied to me because I posted a number of expletives" - that's an incorrect conclusion and I wouldn't like people to take this as an instruction. Apologies if this is offensive.
I would hope that the Ambassador team shows greater empathy towards the frustrations of members who do not have a direct line of communication to Niantic, When we grow frustrated and vent-post, we shouldn't be accused of "jeopardizing the efforts" of the Ambassadors: our frustrations provide the Ambassadors with clear examples of how Niantic's failure to communicate effectively can decrease engagement with the process in the general population.
It may not feel that way, but when @AisforAndis-ING said that there would be a follow-up email of some sort... when was that... oh, 6 days and 20 hours ago? Adequately more than enough time for a response. I'm just stating what's happened but when I have been directly followed up with for further clarification, that's that.
What you might think what Niantic says to you Ambassadors, you have no clear reason to defend them the way they do, simply because you are the privileged "experts that do their thing that they can't freely discuss". Andis said Niantic would "send a follow-up email redacting/clarifying the advisories as needed", but when? Are they going to wait, as they had asked for clarifications about how to review? Soon™?
I have my clarification and advisory from what I needed, so I will follow suit in the future. The ambassadors, you say that you're "always in talks with Niantic" about things, but in reality you always are, at the detriment and shadow of the rest of the community who want to listen and not get their hopes up artificially.
From the Ambassador AMA:
Will the ambo's be able to be more transparent around what the ambo's are raising with Niantic? Without breaking NDA's and such, it would be nice to have a list of current things being worked on, or worked towards, as right now it feels very secretive and behind the scenes, this doesn't inspire confidence with the userbase.
The ambos will raise as many issues, "one or several or many times" with Niantic. But what you discuss with them does not always translate to or influences what Niantic actually does.
I suggest you take a back seat and not try to represent Niantic, nor the community that you are supposedly holier-than-thou, growing more and more out of touch from the community from whence you came. We know Ambassadors are involved in the discussions, but the decisions Niantic make are often not in line with what the ambassadors believe.
Don't downplay the impacts on Wayfinders that are being told they're "incorrectly reviewing" and not getting any sort of consolation or apology from Niantic (Philo P/Zachary/whoever) to redact said comments.
@Roli112-PGO you actually thought it was a s***post? Whoa, I definitely didn't think that, but hey, guess you know best.
I am in contact with enough ambassadors to KNOW they do not advocate "shutting up," and encourage exactly the opposite on the Wayfarer Discussion Discord. I would never post a curse filled rant here, and do think that probably made it harder for them to intervene on the Wayfarer's behalf. (Btw, since it wasn't me bumping the post, today marks 1000 reviews I have not done since receiving the email telling me I reviewed a generic chain restaurant logo nomination incorrectly by rejecting it, and threatening my Wayfarer and Pokemon Go accounts - apparently my Ingress account is not at risk.)
Honestly, please do a daily update to the tally. Niantic's incompetence continues to do irreparable harm to the process. I've skipped about 2600 reviews since the new system was implemented with the too-difficult-to-review-efficiently layout on desktop just because it's not interesting. I skipped out on a few thousand when Niantic wouldn't follow through with their updates. It's almost always one employee who says one thing and just doesn't seem to follow through with doing their job and it's debatable whether or not they've ever used the review system before.
What has happened here to you and other reviewers being threatened for making the correct judgement while adhering to the criteria Niantic have provided is a travesty. Niantic have the ability to correct it easily and refuse to because for whatever reason they don't like doing their job.
I never said I know best. I did think it was a shitpost and meant to delete **** before hitting send but forgot one... but thatbdoesnt change the fact of how I felt about it. I'm no saint and do use expletives every now and then... but when you go out of your way to make sure every single expletive bypasses the filters... its a but much IN MY OPINION, which I am allowed to have.
I wouldn't be surprised if that post of yours delayed their response as they adjusted what they were going to say and made a decision regarding that post itself.
Yes, the Ambassadors are allowed to have an opinion....but I am apparently not entitled to the same consideration. Reference post https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/240766#Comment_240766 above, in which I stated that a post "read to me" as in a certain tone, and "sounds a lot like" a snarky comment. These are my opinions only, and not a blanket insult against the poster or his/her words. I attempted to convey only how I (and others of my ilk, unconnected hoi polloi like the majority of forum participants) perceived a post, not how it was absolutely intended by the poster. And yet, there were disagrees. Not sure if they were disagreeing with my opinion, or devaluing it entirely, because no explanation was given. Usually I simply disregard unexplained disagreements, but this one stings. I remain staunch in my opinion that Ambassadors (especially those not generally active on these forums) are NOT Forum Moderators, have no Moderator powers, and should not be telling general members what to say and what not to say. If you find a post offensive, flag it as such, and avoid the public shaming as much as possible.
I have also not received my promised follow up Niantic correction email. Were they all off for the Thanksgiving holiday? I am hoping it comes early next week.
Hey all, I just want to follow up here and address some of the concerns and conversations in this thread from the past week.
First, before anything else, I would like to share a reminder/reassurance that the "educational" emails in question predate the Wayfarer abuse ladder by several years. Here is a post from @HaramDingo-ING from over two years ago showcasing examples of this exact email template:
Those of you who have been around for some time I'm sure can attest to how rampant abuse was before the very recent implementation of the abuse ladder, how little to nothing was ever done about it except in extreme scenarios, and how the warnings within these specific emails were never truly enforced. While I can certainly understand how this template can generate some concern now that Niantic actually is enforcing rules against abuse, these emails predate the abuse ladder by several years, and again, are part of an outdated system that does not actually apply any type of punishment to your account. That's probably the best reassurance I can provide.
A couple people mentioned that they believe Niantic should have immediately hopped on here and addressed this, or immediately sent retraction emails, and I have to disagree with this. There are other priorities that require immediate attention, which was a large part of the reason I offered to make the original comment I did. Even in the context of this issue alone, there are more concerning issues, such as ensuring that these emails stopped and that they are changed for the future. In addition to that, this situation was just one of many issues brought up in out last meeting. We discussed several other important topics including but not limited to the now-fixed Facebook login issues, many issues and clarifications related to the new review flow (including the "make good" for nominations that lost votes with the reset), the AMA, the next Wayfarer Challenge, and more that I can't get into. In the grand scheme of things, a few users getting a retraction email, especially when this template has been used hapharzardly for years prior, is (at least in my opinion) a "nice to have", not a "need to have", much less a top priority. While ambassadors are continuing to bring up this issue and I do hope Niantic eventually follows thorough with their clarification, if we are being realistic there are significantly more pressing issues than this one. At minimum, the issue and feedback you all have raised will lead to meaningful change within Wayfarer, even if it isn't immediate, and that's not a bad resolution all things considered.
I'd like to put a reminder out there that attending to this forum and the concerns raised by ambassadors is just a fraction of what Niantic staff here does. Contrary to popular belief, there are no staff members whose specific job it is to exclusively monitor these forums or the community at large. While that is a fraction of some of their jobs, all of them have other responsibilities, tasks, deliverables, etc. While we all would love a greater Niantic presence here, the staff you are mad at are not the ones who wrote their own job descriptions or created their own workloads. Making this forum a hostile environment to the people who you want to talk more is not going to get you the increased engagement that we all want.