And now I am reviewing incorrectly

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Comments

  • Faversham71-INGFaversham71-ING Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm still trying to understand how a logo of a generic restaurant chain could be considered 'gray' rather than an obvious reject. Generic gym, yes I can see that could be 'gray', but a chain restaurant logo?

  • Elijustrying-INGElijustrying-ING Posts: 5,273 Ambassador
  • cyndiepooh-INGcyndiepooh-ING Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭✭✭

    more and more reports of ai rejecting logos. ironic? or more proof that i reviewed correctly?

  • cyndiepooh-INGcyndiepooh-ING Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭✭✭

    based on my normal rate of reviewing, today marks 700 reviews i haven't done.

    @NianticTintino-ING any update on that "follow-up email redacting/clarifying" AisforAndis mentioned?

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 4,095 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Idk but their A.I. seems to reject business logos too:

    @NianticTintino-ING @NianticAaron you owe @cyndiepooh-ING an apology if your A.I. did better job than your team.

  • cyndiepooh-INGcyndiepooh-ING Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sigh. Another day dawns with no "follow-up email redacting/clarifying" - just as I expected. 800 reviews I would have done but haven't. And ai rejecting logos like the one I was reprimanded for accepting has me even more furious. I give up.

  • AeriTheBOFH-PGOAeriTheBOFH-PGO Posts: 261 ✭✭✭

    I'm probably not the only one who reads this thread and be like, welp I'm not going to do anymore reviews. I would have rejected that logo every day of the week as well. Good luck.

  • Eneeoh-PGOEneeoh-PGO Posts: 650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I suppose if Niantic actually prefers to invite the unknowledgable unwashed masses to submit coal for their AI to review, then theirs is a clever course of action. They won't need skillful Wayfarers. All they need is a quick turn-around time and an AI that doesn't mind shoveling coal....

  • JojenReed64-PGOJojenReed64-PGO Posts: 36 ✭✭✭

    I just heard from someone else who recently got one of these "educational emails". She also asked for an example of her bad reviewing. It was for rejecting a Game Stop store.

    Form their Wikipedia page:

    "GameStop Corp. is an American video game, consumer electronics, and gaming merchandise retailer.[1] The company is headquartered in Grapevine, Texas (a suburb of Dallas), and is the largest video game retailer worldwide.[2] As of 28 January 2023, the company operates 4,413 stores including 2,949 in the United States, 216 in Canada, 419 in Australia and 829 in Europe under the GameStop, EB Games, EB Games Australia, Micromania-Zing, ThinkGeek and Zing Pop Culture brands.[1][3] The company was founded in Dallas in 1984 as Babbage's, and took on its current name in 1999...."

    "Bad reviewer" tells me the nomination had nothing it in that would have distinguished this from any other of their 4000+ locations.

  • JojenReed64-PGOJojenReed64-PGO Posts: 36 ✭✭✭

    I'm sure the Wayfarer team has many different tasks and duties. Some are certainly deemed to be higher priorities than others. Also,t oday was also a holiday in the US.

    Perhaps there were more ugrent issues that needed to be fixed first (eg. Facebook login issues), however drafting and sending a "retraction email" to wayfarers who received the last batch of "educational emails" doesn't seem to be a technically difficult or time consuming task. That no one has been able to do this in the last week and a half sends a signal.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will say that I did get direct advice and a response back from the post that I had a week ago (mainly because it had a ton of expletives). In all honesty I was mortified that the post actually came through in one piece, with all its swearing and insults intact. But the devil's advocate in me has learned that there is very little chance that Niantic will respond to certain clarifications if you ask them nicely (because the community or its ambassadors just do that for you), so you actually have to kick up a stínk to get any sort of response from them.

    Same thing when I had to appeal my ban in Ingress several years ago when they said that their decision was final and they had absolutely no reason or evidence to uphold the ban.

    I do feel for those who got the nastygrams though. I really hope you get the response that you're looking for too (not just any response). For that GameStop educational email though that's pretty bad, I reckon I'll get the incorrectly reviewing email because I've rejected many EB Games (Australian equivalent, kinda) in my reviewing efforts.

  • xenopusl-PGOxenopusl-PGO Posts: 32 Ambassador
    edited November 2023

    It would indeed be much appreciated if the subjects of unfair warnings didn't jeopardize our efforts to get the record corrected by publicly embarrassing themselves with offensive posts in the meantime.

  • xenopusl-PGOxenopusl-PGO Posts: 32 Ambassador

    Nope, it's a response to "Niantic replied to me because I posted a number of expletives" - that's an incorrect conclusion and I wouldn't like people to take this as an instruction. Apologies if this is offensive.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It may not feel that way, but when @AisforAndis-ING said that there would be a follow-up email of some sort... when was that... oh, 6 days and 20 hours ago? Adequately more than enough time for a response. I'm just stating what's happened but when I have been directly followed up with for further clarification, that's that.

    What you might think what Niantic says to you Ambassadors, you have no clear reason to defend them the way they do, simply because you are the privileged "experts that do their thing that they can't freely discuss". Andis said Niantic would "send a follow-up email redacting/clarifying the advisories as needed", but when? Are they going to wait, as they had asked for clarifications about how to review? Soon™?

    I have my clarification and advisory from what I needed, so I will follow suit in the future. The ambassadors, you say that you're "always in talks with Niantic" about things, but in reality you always are, at the detriment and shadow of the rest of the community who want to listen and not get their hopes up artificially.

    From the Ambassador AMA:

    Will the ambo's be able to be more transparent around what the ambo's are raising with Niantic? Without breaking NDA's and such, it would be nice to have a list of current things being worked on, or worked towards, as right now it feels very secretive and behind the scenes, this doesn't inspire confidence with the userbase.

    The ambos will raise as many issues, "one or several or many times" with Niantic. But what you discuss with them does not always translate to or influences what Niantic actually does.

    I suggest you take a back seat and not try to represent Niantic, nor the community that you are supposedly holier-than-thou, growing more and more out of touch from the community from whence you came. We know Ambassadors are involved in the discussions, but the decisions Niantic make are often not in line with what the ambassadors believe.

    Don't downplay the impacts on Wayfinders that are being told they're "incorrectly reviewing" and not getting any sort of consolation or apology from Niantic (Philo P/Zachary/whoever) to redact said comments.

    @Roli112-PGO you actually thought it was a s***post? Whoa, I definitely didn't think that, but hey, guess you know best.

  • smantz0rZ-PGOsmantz0rZ-PGO Posts: 334 ✭✭✭✭

    Honestly, please do a daily update to the tally. Niantic's incompetence continues to do irreparable harm to the process. I've skipped about 2600 reviews since the new system was implemented with the too-difficult-to-review-efficiently layout on desktop just because it's not interesting. I skipped out on a few thousand when Niantic wouldn't follow through with their updates. It's almost always one employee who says one thing and just doesn't seem to follow through with doing their job and it's debatable whether or not they've ever used the review system before.

    What has happened here to you and other reviewers being threatened for making the correct judgement while adhering to the criteria Niantic have provided is a travesty. Niantic have the ability to correct it easily and refuse to because for whatever reason they don't like doing their job.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 2,230 Ambassador

    I never said I know best. I did think it was a shitpost and meant to delete **** before hitting send but forgot one... but thatbdoesnt change the fact of how I felt about it. I'm no saint and do use expletives every now and then... but when you go out of your way to make sure every single expletive bypasses the filters... its a but much IN MY OPINION, which I am allowed to have.

    I wouldn't be surprised if that post of yours delayed their response as they adjusted what they were going to say and made a decision regarding that post itself.

  • ElizionK-PGOElizionK-PGO Posts: 33 ✭✭✭

    I have also not received my promised follow up Niantic correction email. Were they all off for the Thanksgiving holiday? I am hoping it comes early next week.

  • AisforAndis-INGAisforAndis-ING Posts: 1,059 Ambassador

    Hey all, I just want to follow up here and address some of the concerns and conversations in this thread from the past week.

    First, before anything else, I would like to share a reminder/reassurance that the "educational" emails in question predate the Wayfarer abuse ladder by several years. Here is a post from @HaramDingo-ING from over two years ago showcasing examples of this exact email template:

    Those of you who have been around for some time I'm sure can attest to how rampant abuse was before the very recent implementation of the abuse ladder, how little to nothing was ever done about it except in extreme scenarios, and how the warnings within these specific emails were never truly enforced. While I can certainly understand how this template can generate some concern now that Niantic actually is enforcing rules against abuse, these emails predate the abuse ladder by several years, and again, are part of an outdated system that does not actually apply any type of punishment to your account. That's probably the best reassurance I can provide.


    A couple people mentioned that they believe Niantic should have immediately hopped on here and addressed this, or immediately sent retraction emails, and I have to disagree with this. There are other priorities that require immediate attention, which was a large part of the reason I offered to make the original comment I did. Even in the context of this issue alone, there are more concerning issues, such as ensuring that these emails stopped and that they are changed for the future. In addition to that, this situation was just one of many issues brought up in out last meeting. We discussed several other important topics including but not limited to the now-fixed Facebook login issues, many issues and clarifications related to the new review flow (including the "make good" for nominations that lost votes with the reset), the AMA, the next Wayfarer Challenge, and more that I can't get into. In the grand scheme of things, a few users getting a retraction email, especially when this template has been used hapharzardly for years prior, is (at least in my opinion) a "nice to have", not a "need to have", much less a top priority. While ambassadors are continuing to bring up this issue and I do hope Niantic eventually follows thorough with their clarification, if we are being realistic there are significantly more pressing issues than this one. At minimum, the issue and feedback you all have raised will lead to meaningful change within Wayfarer, even if it isn't immediate, and that's not a bad resolution all things considered.


    I'd like to put a reminder out there that attending to this forum and the concerns raised by ambassadors is just a fraction of what Niantic staff here does. Contrary to popular belief, there are no staff members whose specific job it is to exclusively monitor these forums or the community at large. While that is a fraction of some of their jobs, all of them have other responsibilities, tasks, deliverables, etc. While we all would love a greater Niantic presence here, the staff you are mad at are not the ones who wrote their own job descriptions or created their own workloads. Making this forum a hostile environment to the people who you want to talk more is not going to get you the increased engagement that we all want.

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