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no i cant
that's what some people choose to read into it, yes.
I can't see how they can just one day turn all those Wayspots off like they do with sponsored poi.
Okay. I've had several days, a mini-holiday in tropical Cairns (highly recommended), and a bit of a digital detoxification to calm myself down, so I'm just going to take the opportunity to:
But I am not apologising for that expletive-laden post in the first place. I've sent in many posts like that for approval through moderation and they either get appropriately blocked from seeing the light of day, or edited post-approval (i.e. the many times I've posted in an appeal to "Do your work properly or get another job" is often edited out). That one in particular went through moderation, so that particular forum moderator who decided in their infinite wisdom to accept it in its raw entirety takes all responsibility.
However, I'm also not going to accept that some Ambassadors were also allowed to speak so negative of or retaliate against some of its community members. Or the way some of my questions were responded to because they were rather selective or did not bother trying to understand the full picture. Regardless of how the community acts, expresses their frustrations towards Niantic or undermines their role, the ambassadors above all represent the community's voice (every part of the community) and are the leading example of treating them with respect. Whether the community member has a couple dozen accounts, remains highly skeptical of the ambassador program or is simply just flat out tired of the company, they still have a place at the table that is the forum, whether they're daily patrons or bi-yearly passersbys. They are allowed to remain, knowing Niantic could have wiped them off the face of the Lightship earth, but they didn't.
Some of you do good works beyond what is seen in the forums, so I will recognise that all done behind closed doors. I am glad that the OP eventually received a tailored response directly from Tintino, even if it isn't what they had fully wanted. I can only hope that the community continues to challenge Niantic instead of bending down to their poor business practices and letting the system become overrun by AI. Still waiting for that once-again delayed AMA though.
As Eneeoh points out:
People... are sincerely afraid that their years of investment in several intertwined hobbies may be yeeted out the window by a soul-less AI, or an equally soul-less corporation.
I will always stay steadfast that there is no real way to "review correctly" because the system is inherently built on a non-binary choice workflow and that we are encouraged to use our best judgement based on what is presented to us. My best judgement is to cease reviewing. Don't know if it's going to be a short break, but since I've violated policy elsewhere, it should be indefinite.
It is time to put the weird mute yeti down. Y'know, New Years' Resolutions. Foursquare the world.
Since @HaramDingo-ING made such a good point with this statement:
I will always stay steadfast that there is no real way to "review correctly" because the system is inherently built on a non-binary choice workflow and that we are encouraged to use our best judgement based on what is presented to us.
I understand he has been too busy with other happenings to reply himself, so I decided to go ahead and share Tintino's email after all, where he doubled down on the rejection of this "eligible nomination" being incorrect.
He invited me to reply, so I did. I forgot to make the point that "eligible" is not supposed to equal "must accept" though.
Apologies to the ambassador who feels "the goalposts were moved," but this is a much bigger issue than I thought it was originally. I thought the original message was simply a mistake dashed off incorrectly by Philo P. from help chat. But the doubling down on my review decision to reject being incorrect from both @NianticAaron and @NianticTintino-ING actually concerns the entire Wayfarer system.
For the record, I am not expecting, nor do I feel "entitled" to a reply to this email. But I am hoping this whole situation can shine some light on the need for more guidance for reviewers. And thoughtful communication.
It must also be pointed out that the case above from @cyndiepooh-ING (whose case had full ambassador backing and amplification) is the only one I've seen getting such a detailed and personalized response: others who received the infamous "educational email" and have voiced their concerns on this forum have had no such outreach.
We're told to review holistically, subjectively, and using published criteria as our guidelines. We use opinions in these reviews as a matter of course. Opinions can always differ, of course, but an email saying "you're doing it wrong" doesn't change those opinions - it just strengthens my opinion, personally, that nothing I think or feel or document in my review comments matters in the least.
And I'm sorry but Niantic's stance on Signs in general is very murky and unclear to reviewers. If the title says SIGN or LOGO, then that's what we should be reviewing - is the sign artistic, informative, and aid to exploration? Or is it a representative location pin for a separate qualified Wayspot like the plaza, restaurant, etc. that should be called out in the title and description as the true candidate? If I see a review for a sign with a title/description like "Sign for Store X" then what am I really reviewing, the sign or the store? And does the submitter have no responsibility whatsoever to explain why their candidate meets any criteria?
According to his email, Tintino didn't bother to read anything you wrote here and sent his email based only on what one ambassador and some Niantic staff told him.
And then he ask for more context.
It is always good to take time to reflect - Cairns is a bit far 😎, but yes we all have “places” we can go to reflect and consider.
I am forever an optimist 🤔.
There are many aspects of all of this particular instance that have been unpleasant and impactful to individuals. It would not be good if that individual pain was not then used as a catalyst for wider change.
The community in this forum has been raising issues around this for a long time. The Ambo Team have been raising issues about it. The spotlight is very firmly on “the non educational email”. Hopefully we will get movement on this - I hesitate to use the word soon as we know that is soon ™️ in here 🙄
I also think that with the change in the review system, the context of providing advisory feedback in order to improve understanding of the review process and therefore improve quality, has shifted. So the context needs to integral to any change.
The optimist hopes that some good will come of this and that the community will be in a better place. 🤞😎
unrelated, but are there cairns in Cairns? must know
As the emails between @cyndiepooh-ING and @NianticTintino-ING make clear, we should all be appealing any rejections by the AI through Help Chat.
The AI department deserves more than a stern talking-to, since it is using its judgement inappropriately. It rejects for a single, statistical purpose without regard for the total content or human value of a candidate.
How many demerits can the AI chalk up before it is banned from reviewing?
Is it reasonable for Niantic to employ not just a double, but a quadruple-standard?
The Netherlands get strikes and bans even for real stuff accepted by the community years ago.
FourSquare gets to bypass voting while meeting none of the criteria.
Sentient beings receive threatening letters because they follow all criteria, including exercising their judgement as when reviewing.
The AI is permitted to impose itself on nominations without truly considering the content. Who does it think it is?
“Who does it (the AI) think it is?” A truly existential question.
Well, having Niantic standing by their decision that the offending nomination should have been approved is sending a very dangerous message. How many of those not-really-a-violation-but-educational-email can you receive before you get on the abuse ladder for real?
Am I going to do any reviews again? Probably not. It's catch 22 here really, vote to reject generic restaurant - end up with educational email, vote to accept generic restaurant - probably lose an agreement or get an educational email for accepting coal. With the amount of generic cafes wayspots popping up around me, I'll probably run out of skips in less than 2 minutes.
@HaramDingo-ING you know, this thread is one of the reasons why I don't review anymore, so I wouldn't have seen your nominations in voting anyway. I asked around both the PoGo and Ingress communities to see if anyone knew who reported you, turns out everyone would have liked to know but nobody knew. A direct apology for your incorrect attribute of blame in that thread would have been nice, but whatever, I know for a fact the only two abuse reports I've done this year were for the disc golf course holes and 2 fake wayspots out on someone's farm.