How to Reject Apartment Complexes

With the new nominating flow what is the correct way to reject an apartment complex?

Comments

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 4,125 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hit 👍👍👍👍👎👎👎 in review.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 2,230 Ambassador
    edited December 2023

    This is incorrect as we are not reviewing to reject a nomination... Each question should be reviewed individually, and while 4 up and 3 down can be one of the rejection reviewing outcomes... it should not be an automatic suggestion/choice.

  • rufoushumming-PGOrufoushumming-PGO Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pradonator-ING

    I cannot talk for all the nuances to this.

    But

    The only way to "reject" if the nomination meets the acceptiblity criteria is to thumb down the three eligibility criteria but yes you have to trawl through all the other acceptance criteria

    I have used thumbs down on Accurate to great impact. Using multiple reasons on why title/description/photos. Also you can use other field and type in your view. This is important as Niantic have not covered a lot of stuff. Do use the Don't know as well on Accurate. Where they honest? Is the supporting info right.. any hint of language trying to sway you... you get the picture

    be aware around apartments. There was a court case in the US that said something about a single private residence and Niantic. Which ended up being a **** spiral as it provided ammunition for people who wanted POIs, come what may, and said it gave a green light to apartments that have a shared loo or some other shared facilities. Zero Public access need not be required. So these peeps then used the US legal ruling and applied **** nilly to justify apartment/private unit block nominations to justify POIs in whatever space they wanted.

    Where I live and where I lived in Europe - my apartment in my multistory apartment block is considered a single private residential place. But some Niantic users say the law can get le Feewked when it comes to their POI.

    Somewhere along this journey Niantic found a rock to hide under and pretend nothing had happened or is happening.

    This means be aware holding views similar to yours will according to some Niantic people equal you to being a devil - yes I got burnt :-) so be careful when you mention apartments!

    Much fun will ensue for all parties.

    And if appropriate. Use the other free text field But tick it. Not just type. With your three elegibility thumbs down. And at the end of the day. If you feel right then do it. When I have any doubt I read and reread eligibility , rejection and the other criteria sections again and again

    Also there are comments on the new review process where people are asking for the ability to just go thumbs down on the three eligibility criteria and get the hard stop pop up. so you don't have to through all the acceptance bits. Feel free to add your thoughts in those forums

    Good luck and thank you for sharing. At the end of the day all we can do - is do what we feel is right.

  • Cowyn2016-PGOCowyn2016-PGO Posts: 589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How would Apartment Complex even be a good POI in first place? The 3 core areas are "Gather, Explore, Exercise"

    The complex itself doesn't fit any of those 3 things. Now could there be things that are inside the complex...

    A Picnic Area --- Gather

    A Playground Set --- Exercise

    An ornate statue/foundtain/artwork -- Explore

    As for the law and single-person private residence, Niantic does NOT consider apartments COMPLEXes those. While you could reject say a painting in someone's apartment, you shouldn't reject a painting in say the building's lobby.

  • dman41689-PGOdman41689-PGO Posts: 290 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2023

    you can reject it as private property if you want, not safe because most of the signs are by the street and isn't save, or just hit other under accuracy and explan why you rejected it

  • rufoushumming-PGOrufoushumming-PGO Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2023

    Yes I would reject anything in the lobby. It is not publically accessible at all - zero public access.

    So do not put Niantic rules to say it is enables people to access my building. You mob don't get it. It is private. Again. Including the shared facilities. Trust me it has the potential to not end well. Particularly after the spate of recent trespassing. I have asked Niantic to talk to me about and silence has rained. That speaks volumes. I say again do not encourage people to access to create or to play games in private complexes. EOS

    If general public access is provided - and I have seen these - then sure. There are a couple of big blocks that have pedestrian access through an open courtyard for 12 hours each day. One has a cafe and fitness station the other a cafe. So in this case

    A Cafe --- Social

    A Fitness Station--- Exercise

    An ornate statue/fountain/artwork -- Explore

    So I am not totally hard nosed :-) Happy Friday all and welcome to the weekend. Stinky hot here. 35c and humid.

    Post edited by rufoushumming-PGO on
  • Cowyn2016-PGOCowyn2016-PGO Posts: 589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am sorry to say you are reviewing wrongly to the point that Niantic if reading this should flag your account a warning. Niantic has said OVER AND OVER that --- public access does NOT mean public access to everyone.

    Your Apartment Complex LobbyIS public property to everyone who lives in the Complex and to thier guests. You personally DO NOT own the lobby. Hence things in lobby ARE eligible. And fellow owners of apartments in complex might enjoy use of a stop in the building.

    Gated communities ---- Public Property to everyone in that Community = Eligible. This has been repeated over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.... get it????

    The same applies to Paid Attractions. They aren't accessible to the poor/broke.... but guess what they are access by the public.

    As a side note Apartnment Complex did get a stop/gym in it, the owning business can petition Niantic to remove it if it was causing outsides to somehow get in and causing a problem.

  • PaulingZubat-PGOPaulingZubat-PGO Posts: 581 ✭✭✭✭

    Sighs...

    The "i" from "Pedestrian Access"/"Appropriate" (if reverted).

  • PaulingZubat-PGOPaulingZubat-PGO Posts: 581 ✭✭✭✭

    As an aside, the problem with trespassing lies within the individual(s) who did not take/are not eligible for the prerequisites to access the property. Irrespective of the type of property, it can get trespassed. Going to parks on off hours is still trespassing, players have done so and got their wayspots hidden from the game. There is a mechanic that enables owners/managers to remove the wayspots off the gameboard, irrespective of whether it meets current acceptance criteria or not.

    The reasoning that a game enables free reign to go to any property with a wayspot is the problem. Remind players to not trespass and get authorized access is the way to go and has always been reminded afaik.

  • rufoushumming-PGOrufoushumming-PGO Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Feel free to report me ... please do. your laws and Niantic rules do not apply where I live. So yes come on - lets do this. Happy as. My block is not a gated community. Or a military base. It is private property. Zero public access. It has rules I have to follow that have a cost if don't. These are not Niantic rules. So yes ask Niantic to ban me please. Bring me to their attention. I am and I have said it before and invited it before - more than happy to have a convo on this with them. So feel free to sigh all you want - I will just shake my head ;-)

    @PaulingZubat-PGO I agree. The game does not do enough to remind people what not to do. And how to take things into account. And what to understand. It is also hard for them as rule and laws are different in differing countries. Unfortunately people when playing tend to ignore these. I get it. Focused on. Doing something for a reason. So to mitigate Niantic should do more to remind.

    And we live in a world of increasing gatedness (is that a word) and have these huge housing suburbs with nothing nearby and people want a POI near them. So sure ask the question. See what works. But please local rules and laws trump Niantic.

    Now as for getting the permission. Ask me and I say yes is actually not permission. I know weird. Where I am the private blocks of apartment will have rules on them that owners have to follow. So I say yes for someone to come in and nominate or even play is actually not acceptable in most if not all cases (as you will need every owners permission or the buildings board at the very least (there are nuances )) - and that ignorance is not an excuse. So for me reminding people strongly on private/trespass rules is important for Niantic. Not a cure all but better than nothing.

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,369 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can't understand your reasoning at all.

    Yes, a private property is private in your country and everywhere else around the world. No one can go in just because there's a wayspot inside.

    Niantic said that it doesn't allow any wayspot inside private residential propery for single families, but if there are multiple families (or if it's a business) then it allows the creation of wayspots.

    If a wayspot is inside any kind of private property you might only be able to access it if the owner allows you to go there. You must respect your local laws, Niantic doesn't give you any kind of special priviledge.

  • rufoushumming-PGOrufoushumming-PGO Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2023

    I agree and disagree @WheelTrekker-ING there are laws and rules governing private complexes - the entire block of private apartments. Where I live my apartment is considered a private single residence. And the whole block as private. Even though there are 29 others. As a resident or invited visitor- you cannot create anything that has an impact on other residents without going through a host of hoops. Crumbs - in some case you cannot even do things in your property. That is before we get to non residents and the general public with access laws.

    This is not about the US, its law or an outcome of some courtcase that Niantic had to create specific rules to. This is another country that has rules/laws governing what you can and cannot do. Niantic Players cannot throw Niantic Rules and say that Niantic allows it. Because here is the thing - Niantic don't do that.

    I quote

    """that you will not use the Services to violate any applicable law, regulation, Event policies, or instructions as outlined in these Terms and you will not encourage or enable any other individual to do so.""" Section 3.2 of the Niantic T&Cs

    and this from Section 3.3 "" You will not haras5 threaten or otherwise violate the legal rights of others. You will not trespass, or in any manner attempt to gain or gain access to any property or location where you do not have a right or permission to be, and will not otherwise engage in any activity that may result in injury, ****, property damage, nuisance, or liability of any kind. "

    Now just because My neighbour says sure come on in a create a POI in the block we live in. They are not allowed to. And the person who asked cannot be encouraging my neighbour to break those rules by requesting access.

    All I am saying is what is allowed in the US is not always allowed else where. Let alone cultural nuances. This includes creating a POI in the private block where I live. This whole Single Family stuff is the US. Oh and get this those playing outside the US are playing a game of a company registered outside the US. There are two legal company entities for Niantic depending on where you play.

    I have added a 5 at the end of haras5 as Niantic word filter no like it :-)

  • 29andCounting-PGO29andCounting-PGO Posts: 2,360 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rufoushumming-PGO that’s fine that you feel like there can be no way spots where you live. But don’t tell people to vote like that in other places. Clearly your apartment is the only one like that in the whole world that is not allowed to have visitors or even the residents playing a virtual game.

  • rufoushumming-PGOrufoushumming-PGO Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am not saying that. I am saying in my country I don't accept because of xyz. And that you should check the laws in yours. I am also explaining why you cannot just create or even let someone in to create or that your even asking a resident if you can go onto the land to create. If I want to create a POI I have to submit an application, explain what it is, address risk criteria and then get it voted on by the board or whole community or according to the land covenant and or a combination and and etc etc and I would then have ensure that if anything happened I am responsible including costs.

    So this has has nothing to do with just my block. I am not a numpty. So don't go down that road.

    I am also saying that based on my experience check the rules in your country. Niantic would not ban me for this approach. End of story. Again please all the people saying I should be - go ask them. Niantic says follow the law/regulations/rules etc of your land (local, regional and federal/national) and I am. As all of us should. So when people say Niantic says you can --- I am saying yes but it is caveated heavily.... Read the caveats. Be very specific when you advise people around private apartments (as I should be too in my comments)

    If advising people that is worth checking the caveats etc for your country, that some advice given here is country specific - makes me evil and worthy of being put down. Whatever - carry on wayfarers - keep putting me down.

  • 29andCounting-PGO29andCounting-PGO Posts: 2,360 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2023

    I’m sorry, but I have a hard time believing that there are specific laws regarding creation of virtual POI. But that’s ok.

  • rufoushumming-PGOrufoushumming-PGO Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2023

    it is not specific nor about Niantic at all. It is a catch all rule. This is about the physical action/s required to create/access/play and all the associated nuances for the lifetime of that. The laws/rules do not mention Niantic or virtual. They address access and any associated actions you may enable and the associated risks that may exist or potentially exist for that access/and or associated actions you enable.

    If you are lucky:- all you have to do is put in an application of what you want and to explain what it could mean (with players potentially coming and going) and then it gets voted on and you have to/may have to pay any insurance costs and also accept liability around potential access etc and this would be similar or the same for any private block (but without access to their rules we don't know their nuances). And if/when you leave you may even have to ensure that POI is removed before you go or you have to accept ongoing liability etc etc

    Yes it is all convoluted but it is what it is

    Of course you don't have to tell anyone. But that is not the point I am making. Well trying to make - rather poorly it seems - clearly ;-)

    Post edited by rufoushumming-PGO on
  • Cowyn2016-PGOCowyn2016-PGO Posts: 589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You seem to be just plain stubborn. And I bet you, your local police would laugh if you walked into the police station and said "Officer, I'd like to report a crime. A virtual pokestop has been created in the lobby of my Apartment Complex."

    Officer: Was the person trespassing?

    You: No it was the kid down the hall.

    Officer: Is the kid a resident of the building

    You: Well yeah... but he made a pokestop in lobby and that violates the law.

    Officer: How? He has legal access to the place and didn't trespass. Does the owner of the lobby object?

    You: No they don't care

    Officer: Have a nice day, and don't bother us again unless someone actually trespasses

    Let me say this one last time.... Just because a pokestop is created in your lobby, gives NO ONE permission to trespass to create the stop or use the stop. The game clearly says in TOS do not trespass to get stops/pokemon.

    You do you though, you want to miss the agreements and vote them down... literally every one else will go by the rules and vote eligible stuff up and you can tilt at windmills.

    BTW: Do pokemon spawn in your building? Can you explain a difference?

  • PaulingZubat-PGOPaulingZubat-PGO Posts: 581 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2023

    What you've stated here is the opposite of my point. You've even quoted the ToS on trespassing being akin to cheating.

    The nuance of the rejection does not adapt the meaning of "publicly accessible" from local laws but rather if it fits the description from past statements from Niantic about the topic. The most accurate descriptor being a single-family dwelling, read as in "only one family resides within a single unit/parcel of land." As in a residential property with multiple occupants fit as a private residential property but not as the single-family residential unit. But so far as the criteria currently allows, shared spaces are excluded sic:[from] that rejection.

    That does not discount the local law, the nuance of this topic rather works alongside it and how gameplay differs from place to place. And the criteria stands for shared spaces that meet eligibility.

    • If a person trespasses because of the game regardless whether it is within allowed locations or not, that is their own responsibility (breaking the law) and consequences may include the loss of specific wayspots should the owner requests to (along with real life consequences for trespassing).
    • If the person satisfies the necessary prerequisites for access and location is within the permissible ones, the local law is followed by that person and the owner can still process removal at their request.
    • If the issue that a community of players cannot be trusted to abide by local trespassing laws, the action is two-pronged: local authorities and the given checks & balance from NIA. That would be dealt on a case-by-case basis, a nuance if you will.

    But above what-if's are completely outside the criteria discussion. The owner has the option to remove or edit wayspots regardless of criteria. The player may commit trespassing regardless of what property it is.

    So long as the criteria allows for shared spaces, let the company mitigate matters outside it and let players have their wayspots. Whether they do a good job coordinating with the instances is, objectively, not a criteria concern.

    If they decide to reppeal that part of the criteria, only then say what has been told.

    If you're reasoning is that wayspots explicitly encourage trespassing, wouldn't that mean to stop Wayfarer? Stop AR games altogether?

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,369 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You're still trying to apply the rules of YOUR apartment complex to a whole country.

    Imagine that instead of nominating wayspots, Niantic used the same approach as other companies: add a wayspot in the middle of each Level 17 S2 cell. Then they remove those in the middle of roads, rivers, lakes, etc... everywhere that it's not pedestrian accesible.

    That's enough to create a playable game for everyone. That wayspot over there? you can access it if your local laws allow you to go there and the owner allows you to go there.

    Due to a lawsuit then they say: Hey, everything in single family buildings isn't allowed. That's not a USA law, that's a Niantic statement. It still doesn't allow you to go into other private properties unless the owners allow you to go there.

    And if your apartment complex doesn't allow you to have virtual wayspots it doesn't mean at all that you can reject wayspots in OTHER COMPLEXES. Do whatever you want in your property, but respect other people.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 992 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Which I guarantee aren't actually the rules. This person is just making things up to fit their own narrative because there's waypoints that they can't access and it hurts their feelings and makes them upset because boohoo its unfair.

    Let's see some proof @rufoushumming-PGO, where's the lease agreement or document or website to back up your 1:1mil only apartment complex on planet earth claim?

    Seriously should be reported because these folks who REFUSE to acknowledge the rules should have their wayfarer privilege revoked because they're obviously here to make up their own rules, cause headaches for the rest of us, and abuse the system...

    Like it's RIGHT THERE if you can't follow the rules they literally put on the site then get out dude.

  • rufoushumming-PGOrufoushumming-PGO Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2023

    I have never said all or every where. I have said everywhere is different and you need to check the nuances of the rules around you. And Niantic rules say what can be possible not what must be and only then provided rules etc are followed and that US centric rules/guidance are not applicable in all countries.

    If that upsets all of you. well boo h00 boo h00. I really am not that driven to have every POI created every where or to be the mostest. So hey. Whatever

    If you all want to miss the point that is your call.

    @TrevorAlan-PGO go ahead. Go on report me. Ask Niantic to ban me. Ask them to talk to me. Go on I PLEAD with you to report me. Please please please please. I have asked multiple times for this/ I am more than happy to have this convo with them :-) and I rather look forward to it. So please all of you go ahead. Report me.

    I am out of this conversation. It has gone too far. Have a good day all. Happy Sunday and enjoy your wayfaring

    Toot toot

    Post edited by rufoushumming-PGO on
  • Cowyn2016-PGOCowyn2016-PGO Posts: 589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rufoushumming-PGO

    I know you said you are done.... But I am going to repeat the point I made... By your logic, any pokemon that spawns in your apartment building would be illegal. Both are a tresspass on private property. Have you managed to get Niantic to "Black out" spawns...in appartment complexes across your country. Niantic can. I'll bet you, you haven't and they wouldnt.


    As for your happy to have this convo with them.... ummm what makes you think they owe you a conversation. They could read this thread, ban you, and simply not have any convo with you. Niantic is a private company and business, if they don't want to do business with you even if you were correct (and your not), your bannable from their game for going against the rules of their game, regardless of whether you are following the law. There isn't a single law that says Niantic has to let you use wayfarer, play pokemon, or any of that.


    But the system in general works, is that I strongly suspect you vote no on stuff like this, other people vote yes following the rules, and you miss agreements and get marked down in rating.

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