Why was did a VA Clinic get disapproved
RobertHiggins-PGO
Posts: 124 ✭✭✭
I tried to add this as a PokéStop but was not accepted with no reason.
Any thoughts. It is safe with a sidewalk in front. I have been to other VA's and Hospitals with Gyms and stops. But this did not give a chance for appeal.
Thanks
Best Answer
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RobertHiggins-PGO
Posts: 124 ✭✭✭
I would like to thank everyone for their input on this. I will use use this information while reviewing all hospitals not just VA's. If I am understanding for the most part Hospitals and Clinics should not be approved. I will follow this rule of thumb until further information has been released. As far as my veteran brothers and sisters go we will still meet up at the clinics from time to time have coffee, pop or what ever. Just to see that we are all Okay.
Answers
It doesn't meet any of the acceptance criteria-- it is not a great place to explore, a great place to be social, or a great place to exercise.
More than likely the pokestops you are seeing at other VA’s are statues, sculptures, memorials, decorative water fountains, dedication plaques, etc. Does that sound correct?
I wouldn't approve a VA clinic or hospital. I can see it as a sensitive location, especially for those seeking care.
Agree with you on this. Almost all Wayspots at clinics or hospitals, in general, are art pieces, memorials, and other decorative and/or dedication items.
It's not sensitive, it just doesn't meet any criteria.
@SeaprincessHNB-PGO let me ask you a question. Are you using this to determine what Niantic means by sensitive?
Or are you using a secret conversation between Niantic and the ambassadors to determine when you should be clicking “sensitive”?
Yes, it doesn't meet criteria, but it can also be viewed as a sensitive location. In the US, we have a law against sharing health care information called HIPPA. Not everyone that visits a clinic or hospital may want people exploring the site, especially if they are receiving care that they wish to keep private, which HIPPA allows for.
VA clinics and hospitals are also managed by the Dept of Veterans Affairs, a US federal department. Places maintained by a government can be considered sensitive as well. Google Street View doesn't map out US military bases, so it's sometimes hard to prove if a nomination at a base is actually there with only satellite view.
HIPAA is great and all, but it only says what measures health/info personnel must take to protect sensitive information, and define what info is considered to be sensitive. It has absolutely no bearing on Wayfarer, Wayspots, or AR games.
I work in healthcare. Seeing a person walk into a clinic does not violate HIPAA. You have a misunderstanding of that law.
Notice that HIPAA protects Health Information. Simply standing near the entrance to a medical clinic does not disclose "health information."
you have a wild misunderstanding of the nature of any such conversations as well as the ambos' perception of them.
I know you're just stoking up conflict like you love doing but seriously just knock it off.
Am I being censored?
Ask yourself this: do you really want complete strangers that have no business being at a medical facility to be wondering around? Do you think most patients want complete strangers to possibly interrupt their care? Do you think someone should be battling in a PoGo gym outside of a hospital room that may have a dying patient housed, surrounded by grieving family members? Sure, there might be a permanent art piece located outside said hospital room, but do we really need to disrupt the privacy and sensitive nature of what's happening?
The places listed for Sensitive are suggestions, and it's up to us as reviewers to make the best judgment. Medical facilities can be considered sensitive due to the nature of what happens at said locations.
And just because you're an ambassador doesn't mean you are right in this matter.
Who knows? Maybe you are because you brought up a good point to discuss. Guess we really can't discuss criteria anymore. Yet, when I asked in the criteria clarification from about Chipotle possibly being sponsored Wayspots, an ambassador said it could be...Hmm...
Well, I just did. My last post was removed within minutes of posting, giving good examples of why a medical facility could be deemed sensitive. Guess a good point of discussion that you brought up doesn't want to be discussed by the community...
If you edited it multiple times, it probably went into moderation. That happens to everyone.
No, it's gone. Bet it was flagged.
My point was that medical facilities could be viewed as sensitive due to the nature of what happens there. I'm ok with an art piece or fountain in a clinic or hospital lobby being a Wayspot, as long as it can be accessed by the public, and the public is not intruding on the care of patients.
If there's a piece of art next to a patient room, I would consider this a sensitive location, as many patients tend to want privacy. Said patient may also be very ill, have family members around, and even if it's a worker, i don't think they'd want them exploring a Wayspot at the art outside of the room. Many newer medical facilities, or those that have been remodeled, have brought art into the wings, to brighten the environment up for all allowed in the area.
There are many veterans that have special needs for their medical care, and they may have a hard time letting others in on said care, thus why I see a VA clinic or hospital as being sensitive.
I don't want to say anymore about this because I enjoy the pokestspots at other VA centers I go to. While waiting in lobby's or doctors offices. Several small clinics like this one have stops. I would really hate to see them go. I was setting here and thought it would be nice. So moving on. We will do others and ENJOY THE GAME!. 😉
No other clinics I visit are like this one. Just a place the veterans like myself go. Sometimes just to have a cup of coffee in the lobby and talk. You know where we don't have to have been in a war. But just away from our family's for 20 years. No plaque, no statute, no name carved in stone. Just alone. Yeah we play pokemon. 😅😂🤣
OK, but this is your opinion. The information Niantic has given us is that we should not block emergency services. And that's all. They don't call medical facilities "sensitive locations." This is similar to the concept of a gated community. If you don't have a reason to be in a particular space, then don't go there. If you are allowed to be in that space (and you're not blocking emergency services), then you are allowed to interact with a POI.
Again, I work at a hospital. We have a lot of POI scattered around our campus. Most of them are outside. I have also been a patient in a hospital before and after surgery. During that time, the staff wanted me to walk around instead of staying in bed. Having a POI to walk to inside the hospital made that much more enticing.
Within my own hospital, we encourage people to participate in gaming to keep them connected to their lives and their community of friends. If that's their hobby, we want them to keep it up. It promotes healing and faster reintegration back into their community.
@RobertHiggins-PGO I understand why you would enjoy having wayspots at clinics, but that's not really how the system works. The point of Wayfarer is to find things that meet one of Niantic's acceptance criteria (a great place to explore, be social, or exercise) and don't run afoul of any of the rejection reasons.
A lot of players tend to approach Wayfarer from the perspective of "It would be nice/convenient to have a wayspot here" and then submit whatever they can find in the area, but typically when they do that they're not submitting things that meet any of the acceptance criteria. After 30K reviews I can't even tell you how many times I've seen something like the sign for an office building with the supporting text of something like, "Several people who work here play Pokemon and it would be great to have a stop here."
Keep in mind that the Wayspots you are seeing at other VA clinics may not have been nominated by someone in the community, or their descriptions/supporting info may mention that they are social spots for local veterans. If there is a certain gathering space in the clinic where you do meet up, you may want to focus on that spot.
I'm sorry but yes these clinics are places the Veterans go sometimes just to have a cup of coffee. Turley sorry some of us can't do 50 push up run 10 miles or do 40 pull ups any more. Our activities my have diminished to walking around the outside of the parking lot or rolling our wheel chair down the hall or polite conversation about old times. Never the less when we are waiting in a lobby to see a doctor or just there of eachother. It is activity. Give me a reason why it was denied. Don't just denied it. Is there really a need to be rude. With that being said it's okay. We will go on and ENJOY THE GAME! 😉
If these are places to hang out, I fully support these being eligible. It just all depends on what is written in the nomination.
If you received an email within 48 hours of submitting that said "the team" rejected it, then it was the AI that rejected it, and no reason may be given. We really can't say why it was rejected, especially if it was by the AI.
We're trying to encourage you to nominate the clinic again, but to include information about it being a social spot. Nothing in the title/description/photo you provided suggest this. Being more specific with this type of nomination will give it a better chance of being approved.
Keep in mind there are many people with disabilities that play Niantic games, and in no way are we discouraging you from participating. I apologize for bringing up the sensitive location issue; in no way was I trying to be rude, nor was the others discussing it. These discussions happen, and yes, I have gotten frustrated by them.
Again, my apologies for any discouragement, HOWEVER, I FULLY support you nominating the clinic again and providing more descriptive details about it being a social spot. You may still be able to appeal, as you can only appeal once every 30 days, and then you could add additional information for it being a social spot to the appeals team.
@RobertHiggins-PGO A clinic is basically never going to qualify as a great place to explore, a great place to be social, or a great place to exercise. Note that the word great is important there... just about anywhere in the world is a place where you can do one of those thing, but the fact that I sometimes stand around and chat with neighbors on the sidewalk in front of my building doesn't make that sidewalk a great place to be social.
The clinic itself is basically always going to fail, but maybe there's something in it that would qualify? Is there a cool sculpture? A mural about veterans history? A coffee shop that is specifically a destination for people to go hang out with each other? A chapel?
I have been in medicine for longer than I care to admit. I can see where there may be some things outside some large health facilities (gardens, memorials) that might be stretched into meeting one of the eligibility criteria. However, other than the common areas of a large hospital setting, I absolutely do not see any clinic area that could possibly meet any of the inclusion criteria, except as noted above the “I’d really like to have a Pokestop/portal at work” criteria, so let’s nominate a painting on the wall.
VAs are not where people go to socialize. we have one of the largest VA hospitals in the country here. They are places people where sick people go to seek help. Yes, some might have a cup of coffee or a meal while there because many people travel great distances, but it’s not to socialize, explore or exercise, it’s to receive medical care.
Sitting somewhere and waiting is not a criterion for a wayspot. Health facilities are not great places to exercise or socialize and saying they are great places to explore is simply disrespectful.
If the criteria becomes, we have to sit a while so it would be great to have a pokestop here, then that would be a different story.
It is often fundamentally wrong to use the hospital itself as a place to socialize. However, it may be effective if it can promote the fact that there are many community gatherings. This is the so-called gray area. (In fact, the elderly and wounded who need to attend these places often enjoy the conversations that take place there.)
Separately, there is also a need to separately educate those who consider historical monuments and artwork in hospitals to be as inappropriate as the hospitals themselves.
It's not "artwork is (in)appropriate", but two separate questions. 1) appropriate: "is the location appropriate to be visited by pedestrians?", and 2) great place to explore: "do you think this location is significant to the local community?"
I.e. "artwork in waiting room" is exactly as (in)appropriate as "waiting room". The second answer can be different.
@mokou1234-ING If there's a social hall inside the VA facility that hosts events then by all means submit that... that would qualify as a great place to socialize because it's a place that people go to specifically to socialize.
Historical monuments and the like in hospitals can be eligible, but they need to meet the acceptance criteria and not run afoul of any of the rejection criteria. In a hospital the burden of proof will be on the submitter to convince reviewers that the wayspot will not obstruct emergency services. I've accepted things in hospitals like sculptures and fountains in outdoor gardens, but rejected sculptures and plaques that were within 40M of an emergency room.
By the way, we are all trying to help you. The rejection of the clinic was 100% accurate, and I know you're frustrated by that. A lot of us have been doing this for a long time and have a great deal of knowledge about what sorts of things can be accepted and how submitters can present them to improve the odds of them being approved. If you let go of your anger and listen to the advice that people are giving you then you might well find a way to get a wayspot at the clinic. I just took a street view walk around the outside and don't see anything there that jumps out at me but perhaps there's something inside?
Apparently you're not a veteran and have not been to a VA facility where you do rehab or enjoy the company of other veterans.
I am curious about the different types of VA facilities. I think a place that does rehab is much more likely to be a place with high social importance to the veteran community. But if there is a place that simply operates as a doctor's office/medical clinic, then it's not likely to be eligible on its own.
If there's a social area I'm sure a VA facility is fine, but if it's just a waiting room then it's not an area intended for socialization.